who are using these and what are the results? like 'em or not? how much of an improvment are they? anyone running them w/ WS6 springs?

I am. No complaints. They were on the car when I bought it---so I can't compare to WS6 spec shocks/struts

I am probably not a super demanding person though. I don't auto X--and I would like a more complaint ride then a harsh one. Mine rides pretty good.

I am switching out the stock WS6 springs for the Eibach Pro kit soon.

They're decent for the money. Not the best, not the worst. It's what I run because it was the best I could afford at the time. They ride decent though.

rides pretty nice for the price i got my whole set for 144 shipped..

where did you get them for 144 shipped? i found them for like 160.

i got mine from ebay

I am running them now, got them from summit racing
like 150 $

My car rides really nice now, feels like perfect balance between
comfort and stiffness... you can feel all the bumps, BUT, they dont rattle your teeth out.
Plus I've been working the rest of the suspension Since them..
and they went in with IROc Z front and rear sway bars, and now a Wonder bar.... UMI panhard and LCA's are in the mail and going on this or next weekend.

I also have pretty nice tires that can be had for a decent price
see sig.
Car handles like a monster now,
I can feel the rear end is the weak spot now, hence the LCA and panhard.

I can take really sharp sweeping turns and on/off ramps now
and the car seems like it still thinks its going straight,

To shake her now around turns, i have to drive much faster
than i am comfortable with, and thats saying alot, as I lik eto drive pretty quick.

Im pretty sure I could outhandle my last car... 87 Celica GT, which had GR2's up front and sensatracks in the back.......
that was a nasty little car, too bad it caught fire,
I miss the convertable, but the camaro has made me all but forget
about the celica (minus the drop top)

i will be more than likely purchasing the GR-2s front and read. also will be adding WS6 rear springs from a 4th gen. and will be getting WS6 3rd gen front springs.

why not just get all new Moog repalcement springs instead of mix-matching springs like that?

money for one and i want to find a set of 3rd 1LE springs. so until then i think ill go this route.

Oh. You can get the Moog springs for whatever factory option you want, but I can't remember where to find them. Spohn sales them for $60 a pair for the front and $67 per pair on the rear. You could see if the 4th gen WS6 rates are similar to the comparable 3rd gen springs and get the Moogs from Spohn. They are the second stiffest rate offered from the factory (706 in lbs) and may be what you mean by 1LEs. And I for one think that the stiffest set (748) might be a typo.

1LE is basically the camaro WS6. 1LE was camaro and WS6 was birds

I know that. They used similar spring rates as well. Moog manufactures replacement springs for all factory options, from the base 4 or 6 cylinders up to the high end V8 cars. The 1LE option had the stiffest spring rates offered. The stiffest two on Moogs replacement list is the 706 in/lbs like Spohn sales and a 748 in/lbs which I think may be a type (648 instead of 748). What I was saying is that you can get the Moogs offered by Spohn and have the 1LE/WS6 springs (unless the 748 in/lbs isn't a typo).

Here, check this page out. It has the info on the springs I was talking about:
Stock Replacement Spring Info

so will these GR-2's control like the WS6 springs or the eibach Pro-kit??

My shocks are getting worse every day. The front sucks, and the rear actually is hitting the bump stops during daily driving.

I need something to hold me over untill I can afford the koni's. I want to lower the car this summer, but I might not have money for koni's untill another year or 2 of saving. So thats why I ask if the GR-2 will work good enough to control WS6 springs and then some pro-kits.

froim my understanding and research they are pretty good, middle of the road in the performance shock/strut department. better than monroe and gabriel stuff.

I know they are better than monroe and gabriel. However, everything that I have read on here about them is that they are absolute JUNK. This is the first thread with anything positive about them.

If the GR2 isnt good, what can I get a set of 4 shocks, less than $200 total, that will hold up to stiff springs and ride smooth?

they'll do an ok job with stock springs, probably a little better than stock. With the ProKit, I've heard they die a fast death. You may want to look into the high end Tokicos.

I always thought my GR-2 setup was pretty rough riding. Then again I have moog front and rear, and they are stiffer than stock WS6, can't remember what rate though, its been years since i thought about it. They came on the car when I bought it.

I want to take a ride in a car equipted with KYBs, Tokicos, Bilsteins, etc to have personal experience to back up what I've read. I know that stock is poopy and so are Monroes. I also know that my car handles much better with the KONIs, but the ride is sacrificed (at least on rough secondary roads). I wouldn't trade it for anything on the highway, especially on fresh paved roads. I want to borrow an all stock 3rd gen and put my KONIs on and see how that is. Now, if one of my friends would just buy an all stock 3rd gen.... lol

do you want to feel the road, or dont you. Cant have it both ways (without paying crazy money). I went with the gr-2's rather than sensa-trac for the <200 solution. My car already rides like i dont have a suspension, so the gr-2's no matter how stiff, will be an improvement.

The springs effect ride quality in some ways more than shocks or struts could. I'm sure there's a computer algo that can be used to match springs to shocks given some data about both and the car's weight.

springs that are too stiff for the weight are gonna feel like you have no suspension at all, no matter what shocks or struts you have going over crappy road. too weak and just the opposite, all shocks and struts can do with a weak spring is slow the travel, it wont stop it.

If you're not the same weight as the ws6 trans am is, then the springs will be too stiff, but you'll need a stiff set of shocks and struts to handle the spring force for when you do hit potholes. Because the car is likely lighter, the springs will have too much force and "normal" shocks and struts will appear much weaker in dampening the spring effect.

Unless you're drag racing, you really dont want springs that aren't matched for the car's weight. You'll feel like you have better handling with over stiff springs, but you cant correct it with shocks and struts to make riding over crap road any less jarring. This would not be the case with the correct springs.

anyways, that's my 2cents of worthless advice.

Well, does anybody know what a the spring rate on an SS camaro 1998 would be? I rode in my buddies last night, totally stock, and the car was perfectly smooth on the roads my car HATES! Stock springs stock shocks. Dont get me wrong, his suspension is stiff, and the car will outcorner mine, but it doesent shake your teeth out and make loud noises over bumps.

In my particular case, the car already corners pretty good. I would rather have it be comfortable over the rough highway at 70mph to work, than set up like an autoX car lol.

buy your shocks and springs from www.tirerack.com all four gr2s were around 120 or 130 and my eibach springs were around 215 +shipping

Two words: Coil Over

The springs act directly at the spindle where as in our cars which use inboard springs. This means you can use a lower spring rate to acheive the same stiffness. Makes for a less harsh ride.

Yeah, the 4th gen cars are completely different in the front and seem to ride nicer. Also, they have a better designed and build uni-body, so they make less noises.

Oh. That makes sense then. I dont want coilovers in my car though, I would be afraid of punching through the strut tower (not designed to hold the weight of the car, was it?)

It's not designed to, but I think that Spohn's design overcomes this. Not sure though. I don't know if I'd want to push a car with them unless someone tested them first.

so you all are having me up in the air now weather to buy the KYBs or not. i think they may work out well w/ the WS6 springs all the way around. but of course id have to put them in to know.

I am really thinking about it now - that Tirerack post was helpful. They had great prices on all the shocks, even the Koni's and Bilsteins.

If you are gonna get the KYB's, you might wanna get the gas-a-just shocks for the rear. They are a monotube design and are the next step above the GR-2 for not alot more money...

i would be knowing me id be adjusting them all the time and will never be happy w/ were im at. its just me and the perfection i have for the IROC.

yea, tirerack is great. I got my tires from there. I should have remembered to look them up before buying the stuff at autopartswarehouse. Could have saved 30 bucks . But oh well. autopartswarehouse gets stuff to me in 24 hours for free (for orders over 50 bucks). So i'll pretend like i _needed_ the parts next day so it was worth it


by the way, gas-a-just aren't adjustable.

thought those were the adjustable kind.

http://www.kyb.com/products/detail.php?ID=4

that's the adjustable line

ya i looked into it already. i guess the brand name threw me off.

We put the GR2s on my g/fs Accord and it firmed up the ride nicely... No complaint there at all, and we got them for a very good price (something like 75 for all 4)... Now, when the ones go out on my RS, I will be doing either the GR2s of the Tokico Blues, prolly the GR2s cuz they are cheaper (I hate the Monroe Sensa-tracs that are on my RS right now... I wish I never would have bought them)

RE: The gr-2's..... They freakin suck! I put a set on the front of the vert a few years ago along with the stiff moog 5662 front springs. They can't control them.
The rear gas adjusts seem to be okay with the 5665 springs, but that may just be because the rear is less criticle. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the gr-2's actually have less rebound damping than what our cars came with new. So, unless you're gonna keep your worn out stock springs, or are swapping in worn out ones from the junk yard, I'd stay away from them. Tokico blues are the minimum for me from here on out.

considering the stock springs on these cars from the factory had spring rates roughly half that, it wouldn't be surprising that twice stock is pushing the limits on the cheaper aftermarket replacements. The spring is just too strong. Good metric might be, twice the strength in spring would need twice the strength in shock/strut. Which usually means at least twice the price.


btw, is there really a need to run twice the stiffness as factory? Shouldn't your sway bar and wonderbar and rear sway and sfc's and etc etc, be upgraded to improve handling, so you dont sacrifice the ability to drive on non-smooth roads? I guess if all that was done and it still wan't good enough, springs would go in, but as a last resort. Though, if you're lowering, i guess it's a necessity.

I'm running Tokico struts and shocks with Eibach Sportlines and it has treated me much better than the stock set up ever did. It is stiff as hell, so rough roads are ROUGH, but thats the sacrifice you make for looks and performance products. (car has aftermarket LCA, Panhard rod too)

well im not lowering the car at all ever. for the price is the main reason im going w/ the GR2s. plus my schocks and struts are shot. dont know if they ever have been replaced. still waiitng on the WS6 springs to show up. when they do ill buy the GR2s and post the results.

personally, i would think the ws6 springs are gonna be too stiff for the car, but time will tell. My belief is that springs should match the weight and road conditions you're gonna drive with. If you want to tighten up the handling, work around the springs, but changing them to be stiffer would be a last resort as there are serious costs to ride quality when you're not using matched springs.

i dont think WS6 springs will be too stiff. if i could find 1LE ones, which are the camaro verison of WS6, i would use those. so i dont think there will be an issue. so time will tell and if it dont work out no big deal...

WS6 springs are nice.

Not as stiff as IROC spec ones. They are better on the not so perfect roads we have to drive one.

The bird had 1LE also.

near as I can tell---1LE did not include different springs.

Just checked on the msg board here--no mention of it.

IROCs had FE2--harder springs, smaller sway bars--GTA/Formula had bigger sway bars softer springs.

good info to know.

ahh i see why i'm so confused here. Stock springs "irocs and z28's and such alike" were never more than 331lb/in or so. (front). But all the aftermarket "stock" replacements from moog and such recommend 5662 and similar springs for iroc's and Z28's and friends, which is a hefty 700+lb/in.

other after-factory packages like verts were given 700+lb/in springs as well ...though i'm not sure why since their added weight was in the rear.

anyways, i guess it's pick whatever you like, but if you are picking heavy duty springs, you need heavy duty struts/shocks, you can't go with the "stock" replacements and expect great performance.

Some of the stock IROC came with the 706 inch/lbs springs. They are about the same rates as the front ProKit. I agree you don't need to use cheapo struts, but they did come from the factory in the IROCs. How do you guys see them as too stiff?
Some of the IROCs came with both the stiff springs and the larger bars.

your misinformed. Front IROC springs are 550lbs per sq inch.
(WS6 are 500lbs)

No IROCs had the bigger sway bars--FE2 was 34mm period. Now 1LE cars.....

I saw a sheet showig that some of them had the 700s (it's in pounds needed to compress the spring one inch, not pounds per square inch). It may have only been 1LEs, but they were production cars so I don't see how they could be deemed 'too stiff'. I know the 1LEs weren't your every day Camaro, but I don't see a problem in running the higher rate spring on street cars. It would be easier on struts than the Pro-Kit (comparable rates with a lower ride height). I've seen people running rates of over 800 in/lbs on the street in dailey drivers. You just have to have dampeners to back it up.

well your using one weird way to measure spring rates.

lbs per SQ inch is the normal way to do it. And IROCs were 550lbs--I am gonna email Eibach and see what there are.

Most IROCS got the 648lb springs, aka moog 5662. Look up that chart someone has posted around here.