would it be an overkill to have a roll cage in a regular street car?...someday i'd hope to bring it to the strip...

I'm doing it too, mostly cause I want to, secondly cause it looks cool and third I track mine like once or twice a year.

That would depend on the type of roll cage....like a full out cage, like a pro-street cage....or are we talking a 4 or 6 point roll cage.....I would say the 4 or 6 point would be fine....i'd guess it'd depend also on how fast your car is....9 or 10 second car...probably okay for bigger cage......14 second stock car....small cage.... also camaro did sometime come with FACTORY 4 point roll cages/bars....I think maybe the 1le package....but I have a factory 4pt. in my 91 B4C "police" camaro

I'm doing a 4 point with an X brace lol. No one sits in the backof my car anyways.

i was gonna take my backseat out anyways..all ive seen for cages so far are 8 and 10 point..i was thinkin 8...10 is pretty cool tho

I don't think anyone can sit in the backseat....I get stuck back there trying to clean!!! It's for for looks, or for a small dog back there...I use it to hold my helmet...worthless back seats anyway!!!

No to the 1LE. And Jak, overkill.

JamesC

where can i get a 4 or 6 point then?

I'm fabbing my own from a summit universal kit, my tig, die grinder and my recip. saw. . Also with an assist from my airbrush lol.

I wasn't sure about the 1LE cars....so only the B4C cars came with them then.....I'm alway for learning something new.

i just wanna buy a kit specific for my car and weld it in

Check the usual suspects, Summit, Jegs, Spohn, they might have something.

ya i checked spohn..they have 8 and 10

No, no stock thirdgens came with a cage.

JamesC

I didn't think any GM production car came with bars, but I didn't want to open my mouth and be wrong.

No such thing as too much safety. I just got my f-bady and I am already planning on adding a 6 or 8 point cage. Lets face is, it adds stiffness and stability to a notoriously loose chassis and yes, as much as I believe in function over formality, it does look pretty cool.

Haha that's how I think about it. I love function, especially when it looks cool!

Kind of like a set of 315 tires.....just trying to keep the thing on the road, never mind the one foot wide 30 foot long patch I just left behind me at the stop light

just stuck a 8pt in mine will swing out door bars as well as 5 point harnesses and aluminum door panels its FRIGIN SEXYYYYY! and bad ***. if i walk by a car with a cage/roll bar i have to look at it lol.

i welded my door bars in first and wanted to see how hard it was to get in.... it was pretty annoying and impossible lol.... so i forked over the 80$ for 2 swing out kits... its kinda a pain to install but they are sooooo worth it, make it look even more sexyyy

no if you r not to fat, my previous dailydriver was with full roll cage, bucket seats and other stuff, all of them were mounten not due to racing at track but for safty reasons especialy on street where you can meet a lot of trees, walls and other drivers which are not so responsible while driving as they should be, if you do even just a bit of speeding and streetracing roll cage, bucket seats, racing seat belts and helmet (you really don't want to hit your head with rollcage while very strong brakeing or accident)

best regards

A few reasons not to have one if you don't need it:

1) if you have a roll bar or cage, a harness and helmet are required to run at any sanctioned track
2) your are considerably more likely to have a brain injury in an street accident due to the fact that you likely won't be wearing said helmet while just riding around. Don't tell me, the bars are "x" far away, on my home PC I have saved the news report and accident report of a guy getting broadsided in a tauras and dieing basically instantly when his head hit the seat belt bolt for the shoulder strap. If that can do it, be damb sure alll those pipes can.
3) Never have anyone in the back seat of a car with a main hoop cross bar. Never have any one of typical adult height in the back even wjust the main hoop. (refer to reason 2)
4) although they may think it's cool on a first date, girlfriends/wives do not consider climbing in and out to be attractive. (swing out bars, especially if totally removable help this)
5) Although high schoolers may think it's cool, a bar/cage in a 14 second car is kinda dumb. The car was already designed for impact at speeds which you can legally drive on the road, at the track it's not fast enough stock to do any more damage than a typical car accident.
6) you loose all aspects of being a sleeper, and if it's not fast, people who beat you will clown you.

I'm a long time advocate of having a bar/cage in a car that needs it. In a car that does not and gets driven often it is no more than a safety hazard.

Agreed lol.

Not to shut ya down but.....I know for a fact that some third gen's came with a factory roll bar. There are three "special service package" camaros here where I live...mine and two others...one of them had the holes where the roll bar went....and mine and the other car have the 4-point roll bar in the car....
It was an option for the B4C camaro's.....I wasn't sure about the 1LE cars, sounds like not for those cars. I have the original window sticker for my car and on that it says 'safety bar' on it. There are many things on the B4C cars that people don't know about...such as power steering cooler, engine oil cooler, different interior door panels, 140 amp alternator, 145mph speedo, extra fuse blocks, some had radio deletes, etc.

Interesting. New to me. What's the RPO code for the 'safety bar'? Was this, I wonder, a factory installation or was the install completed at the time the car was put into service?

Curious, I did a search and found the following link, which shows options, though no safety bar is mentioned. Also, I thought post #79 was interesting.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/hi...ay-patrol.html

JamesC

I have a 406 with stock heads in my car. It ran a best of 8.98 in the 1/8th with a lot of suspension issues. I'll be putting in a cage this summer, but my car will cease to be a DD. Make sure you get subframe connectors, a wonderbar, and repair any frame or floor board damage. Putting a cage in a thirdgen is like building a houses foundation. The concrete you pour is just as important as the cinderblocks or masonary work. If your building your car up while DDing it. A cage should be far behind strengthening your frame and sorting out your suspension. Also budget for quality racing seats and a good harness.

Ya know....I bet you it was a dealer install item....they do that sometimes...which would make it not factory, but kinda....dealer installed items are all installed the same way with products from the same company....like they get a B4C package car in that's new....customer requested roll bar....so they order it in and install it and then deliver to customer...there is no rpo code that I know of...but it's on my window sticker still.....I guess like when dealers put customs wheels on cars that are new, or here localy...lift kits on some truck that are new...it's on the window sticker, but not factory.....I stand corrected...I didn't think about it long enough I guess.

Yeah...just like #79.....sorry just didn't think about it.........that makes sense.....again I stand corrected

shagwell is correct. a street car that doesnt need one shouldnt have a cage they are added problems in the case of an accident. but id have to argue that at the track i raced at my car was a 14sec car it didnt matter how fast u ran.... if u ran at all u had to wear a helmet. besides not hearing anything they are kind of comfy. also not sure how u would hit your head on the hoop bar.... its behind the seat and the 5 point harness should strap u down more than enough. i guess stuff can happen.

also a great reason to install at least a 4pt (hoop and rear bars) is that you have to remove the gas tank.... if your gona be removing the tank to replace or upgrade ur fuel pump its a perfect time to do the 4pt if u plan on racing it and running fast enough. its just a big deal to take the tank out since u have to remove the rear etc. no welding on the rear bars should be done with the tank in place!!! ever

for me it was a simple choice, i had the tank out for a walbro 255lph and my HSR 383 should be putting me into the high/mid 11s on motor... and im gona juice it. so i would eventually need it.

as stated u shouldnt put a cage in etc without fixing the rust etc first.... if at anytime u see rust u should fix it at that moment.

I feel the need to chime in

I am slightly biased as I just bought a 10 point for my street car project BUT, as far as hitting your body parts/head on the bars... Lets think with our brains for a second here, if there is enough force to break bones bones on the bars, you think you would fair much better with against the frame? Interior plastic panels do not act as a buffer and will not be any friendlier to you than the steel that is behind them in an impact. Further more from a safety point of view your much better off with a roll cage, you know what the fatality rate is if you flip your car? Go look at the statistics of what percent die in a rollover accident. If you take a side impact it is extremely unlikely the bars will shear if you have a quality kit/used thick tubing, the bars will absorb more energy thus less energy is transferred to you... Furthermore, if you do get hit hard enough to shear the door bars your totally farked anyhoo so at that point cage or not it really doesn't matter.

All that being said, a poorly installed/designed roll cage is detrimental to your health.
$0.02

A little more on this as a fellow person who is installing a 8pt cage in a street car with the occasional trip to the track. If you go ahead with a roll cage and do not go with a aftermarket racing bucket and maybe a 5 point harness like one should, yeah, you could get a little dinged up in an accident, however, a cage is still safer then just a lap belt and a hop and a prier. So my 2 cents to go along with this is, spend the extra couple hundered and go with a race bucket and a 5 point belt system.

I have one in my daily driver (Non 3rd gen), but then again I am also a NASCAR crewcheif for a Supertruck (remember the old "Craftsman Supertruck Series"- they still exist and we still run them).

As long as you have padding, and 4 point harnesses, you are far safer than without a cage even when you do not wear a helmet. My harnesses holkd you in position much better than any of your shoulder/lap belts do. You hit your head up sideways on your roof beam molding and it will snap your neck because your factory belts will not retain you laterally and vertically like my harnesses will. You should belt mounts to the ceiling and will not cinch you down in the seat like 4pts will lapping over both shoulder and then mounting downward.

thats what i figured. the roll bar/cage should protect u a hell of a lot more than one without. and if your serious enough to install a cage/roll bar... why wouldnt u already be installed 5/4 point harnesses and racing seats etc....

i padded my 8point only on the hoop to were the door bars connect. my 5point simpson harness and summit polyethelyn drag seat should keep me in place. also if your doing a 8pt dont forget the swing out kits for the door bars... altho more work they are totally worth it. i just stuck 2 sets of comp engineering kits on mine. getting in/out is no longer a prob.

Unless you position the bars outside of spec, your head will be considerably closer to the main hoop than it is to any factory part of the car. Another thing to note is padding. NHRA/IHRA have mandated cage padding for a reason. That door bar could easily shatter your elbow.

I'm a big supporter of safety equipment. I just don't see many guys putting kirkey's and harness in their DD's and dealing with the hassle of properly strapping in every time they get in the car.

Vetruck - hhhmmmm, I'm thinking I know who you are(not personally, just relating the truck, a 3rd gen, and the crew chief thing) just for note, whether I'm right or not, I have no qualms with you.

how is it that the head of a person can hit the main hoop? the hoop should be behind the seat and behind the drivers/passengers head. there is no way i could hit my main hoop.
picks of my cage/hoop/seat/5pt harness.

doesnt actually look that close its the padding.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/at...346altered.jpg

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/at...277altered.jpg


wish i had a side pic. i have a few inches from where my head rests on the seat and the hoop. idk if this pic helps but maybe u can see the hoop/cross bar thats 3" or so behind the seat. thats how far the hoop is back but the foam is 1" thick directional foam. this cage is NHRA legal as well to 9.5s

If you're tall like me (6'3") I can see how your head would be close to the main hoop. Heck, in order to fit in my car with my corbeau seats I had to custom fab a seat mount so low that it is almost like bolting the seat directly to the floor pan and it still had to angle it back a good amount so I wouldn't tear apart my headliner with my helmet. I totaly understand how my head could probably hit the main hoop of a cage.

Since we are thinking with our heads here... Wouldn't adding a cage make the car more rigid, and because it is more rigid wouldn't there be less of a "crumple zone." Since there would be less of a crumple zone, your body would experiance more of the extreme forces during an accident. More forces on your body mean more bodily movement in the event of a crash. I don't care who you are, good luck controling how your limbs bounce around in a crash at a decent speed (45mph for example). Yes, a harness will hold your torso in place, but your head, arms, and legs are still going to flail around. "But that is what roll bar padding is for." I know it helps, but come on... it ain't that great.

Well, with proper wear and us of these key features, then unless you really f*&$ something up, you shouldn't

im 6'1"-1.5" and the top of my head barely doesnt reach the top of the headrest on the polyethelene seat. still is lower than the hoop. my head cant go over and around the headrest to touch the bar. yes cars are deisgned to crumple... but the stock saftey restraint aka seatbelt is good for nothing. i still smacked my head on the steering wheel in my first accident in a V6 firebird and in a 92dodge dynasty. and wat about the stock headliner or corner trim on any of the parts of a car... they cover sharp edge steel... those offer less protection than roll bar padding. i mean roll bars provide far more protection then danger. a side impact with out a bar and .... OUCH! then again a roll bar/cage with a stock seatbelt and ur just looking for trouble.

a 4-5pt harness should strap u down more than well enough to keep u in the seat. if the accident is bad enough to make my arms flail around maybe i'll break an arm but u can bet my @SS is walking away from the accident with my head still there. all i got to worry about is my one arm and maybe my leg/hip

When I first read the posts about "factory" roll bars, like in 1LEs & B4Cs, I was all ready to raise the flag, but I kept reading to see if it was straightened out.

Then I came across the comment of "no 3rd came from the factory with them". Well, not quite.....

What about the Firehawks? Some DID roll out NEW with 4-pt bars AND 4-pt harnesses. While those were SLP conversions & probably done at SLP (not on the GM assembly line) they were original & came with those parts.

So yes.....A 3rd gen COULD, brand new, come with roll bars installed.

But not from GM, which is what "factory" was intended to mean. All's cool.

JamesC

i regret having mine and it's lightweight chromoly.. unless your cars running 10's i wouldn't waste the time. do other frame strenghtening things and leave it be.

off topic here ..

so an ASC convertible is a "NON FACTORY" convertible? ASC didn't sell the cars. GM CONTRACTED them to do the conversions.Same as the SS and FIREHAWKS. GM/DEALERS contracted them to do the conversions and then sold em.

if it rolled of a dealers lot with the mods done. its factory in my book.

In a major impact, while wearing a full harness and no head/kneck restraint, you are considerably more likely break you kneck anyway, so I would guess hitting the bar isn't a big concern.

As stated by a few others, a street driven vehicle is designed to absorb the impact of the crash, thus not transfering that energy to your body. The more rigid the vehicle and restraints are, the more energy is transfer to your body. The more energy that gets transfered to your body, the more safety equipment you need to prevent injury/death.


It's all calculated risk. I have an 8-point in my vert, and don't wear a helmet in it when not racing. If it weren't needed for racing, I probably wouldn't have it.

This is incorrect. Chassis stiffness absorbs more energy, mass absorbs more energy, the car will still "crumple" just the same unless you cut holes in the fire wall and do a full on tube chassis. The car will not act the same if you are T-boned, but would you really want it to? The bars will absorb more energy and transfer less into you, that's why GM put a steel bar inside the door (take off your door panel and look for yourself)

The only down side to having a roll cage is the weight penalty and hassle of install/getting in and out of the car. Race teams install these things in cars for added safety and rigidity, think about it.

i agree. the front of the car will still crumble just the same with out a full out 12 pt cage that goes into the engine bay. as i stated it would prob save u from a side hit aka TBONE lol... when i replace my doors im ripping that HEAVY @SS support steel inside the door. since i got door bars.... those steel inserts by Gm is what makes our doors so D@MN heavy!!! grrr... i dnt need the strength or the frame supporting that GM designed the doors to be apart of. so gutted they will be in the future

swing out kits can solve getting in and out problems. so really u have weight and losing back seating... cages are street legal right? i cant get a ticket? lol i hope

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about removing that piece... If you do i would not use a swing out. Furthermore this could be a bad idea, its not an either or scenario, the now lighter less rigid door will give easier and move with a greater velocity into the cabin.

Not trying to argue or stir up poo, just using logic and engineering know how

Cages are street legal, they fall under the auto "accessory" category as well as many aftermarket "performance" parts (If they don't increase you emissions)

i know there are 4th gen 4, 5, and 6 point roll bars.
would they fit in a thirdgen?

No,

Why bother with a 4th gen set? Plenty of 3rd gen bars out there.