Suspension / ChassisQuestions about your suspension? Need chassis advice?
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I've developed a problem with the front end of the GTA...
If I'm on a smooth surface, crank the wheels left (almost to lock) and then drive forward slowly, I hear a loud pop from the front end. Just before this pop, I can feel the left front side rise ever so slightly. The front end drops back down as the pop occurs... This doesn't happen ALL the time.. I usually have to drive backwards and forwards a few times with the wheels turned near lock to get it to get this to happen.... I've put the front of the car on jack stands, pulled the wheels and inspected the steering and suspension. I can't seem to find anything wrong.
- The wheels were on good and tight. There were no loose lug nuts.
- Before I took the wheels off, I grabbed the tires by the top and bottom and pulled and pushed to see if there was any vertical movement.. Things are as snug as can be. Same goes for horizontal movement. Both wheels turn and there's no slop in any of the steering parts.
- I took a long crowbar and pried hard between the control arm and steering knuckle to see if there was any up/down movement in the balljoints. There's none.. They're tight.
- I've gone over the tie rod ends, pitman arm and idler arm etc and they're all tight too. I got all greasy pushing, pulling and prying at these parts to see if there was any play.
- The swaybar end links are tight. The rubber bushings are all sound.
- The steering box is bolted on tightly..
- When the car is on jacks, I can turn the steering lock to lock and everything is smooth. Nothing binds or makes noises.
- The car drives fine in a straight line and there are no noises during normal turning on the street...
- The brake calipers are OK.. They float properly. Pads and rotors are good.
You'd think something you could hear and feel in the steering would be readily apparent, but it's not.... Is there anything else I can check? This is driving me crazy..
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I have the same problem, it's not that loud of a pop, or sometimes there is no pop at all, but it feels as if i'm either rolling over something or going through a dip, it only occurs at almost all the way turned toward either side.
it feels as if i'm either rolling over something or going through a dip, it only occurs at almost all the way turned toward either side.
Yea.. That's exactly what I thought when I first felt it.. I was in my garage and I thought the front driver's side tire had rolled over something that had fallen on the floor.
Hopefully someone else has experienced this and knows what it is.
I've developed a problem with the front end of the GTA...
If I'm on a smooth surface, crank the wheels left (almost to lock) and then drive forward slowly
Typically our car don't like the above and they attempt to push forward as they turn--perhaps that's why the car seems to rise. Big tires added to the above often are responsible for tearing the steering box area (a Wonderbar will help to protect).
The following is from How to Tune and Modify your 1982-1998 Camaro by Jason Scott:
"The problem stems from high forces transmitted from the steering box to the chassis, especially under low-speed cornering, such as when maneuvering around a shopping mall parking lot. Fat performance tires present a great deal of resistance at low speeds, which imparts considerable stress into the steering system, and ultimately attempts to rip the steering box from its mounting surface--especially during "full-lock" turns, where steering torque is greatest. Over time, these forces weaken the chassis surface around the steering box and can result in torn metal.
"Whether the chassis is weakened or torn at the steering box, the result is the same--steering actions are delayed while the chassis flexes, leading to unresponsive and erratic steering. Ironically, though the damage stems from low-speed steering, the resulting problem is far more serious at high speeds than low ones."
JamesC
__________________ "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
I would think the GTA has the steering brace (ie Wonderbar), but I'm no GTA expert - make sure yours does - if not, get one! I added one to my RS and it made all the difference in the world.
Try replacing the idler arm - like most other steering components it's hard to tell when they are bad, and it's a cheap part (about $40 IIRC).
If still have problems, then try the harder-to-do ball joints and/or tie rod ends. Get NAPA parts - they have 2 options - the slightly more expensive ones are way better.
look at your front coil springs first
very common to break
spend a little extra time looking at them (cause of the deep pocket)easy to miss if in a hurry
Ive replaced:
ball joints
bushings
steering gear
all linkages
upper strut mount
struts
rotors with new bearings
checked the coil springs
That leaves the a-arm, and spindle as the only steering parts orginal to the car.
I've even checked the gear box mounting, not torn metal or broken welds around the area.
I have an aftermarket wonder bar.
It still does it at low speeds, I think it has to do with the offset of the factory 16in wheels it didn't do it when I had 15 inch center offset wheels on it. Of course I have better tires on the 16 so it comes down to the force exerted on the system at high angles.
I am about to replace my steering gear with a 2.5 turn lock to lock box and get a real good alignment done as I think the alignment will help if they get all the 3 angles right.
Oh yea I am considering welding in an extra brace at the steering gear mount.
I also have the ws6 suspension so it has the triangle braces at the K-memeber.
I've also been told to make sure you drag link is level, many people replace the idler arm and it has a little up down adjustment in its mount that can cause geometry issues at high angles.
Oh boy... This is new for me and I've had the car for 13 years. I hope it isn't something I have to live with
I'm putting the car back up on jack stands today. I'm going to check the springs and area where the steering box is bolted on for cracks. I'll post back IF I can find out what's wrong.
I've had mine since 97 I bought the car when I was 17 it had 120k on it then it has 210k on it now. It sarted around 170k miles. I replaced all the parts around that time also. Now for the last 3 years I've only driven the car once/twice a month as I couldn't keep it at the condo I had, now that i have a house I am working on it again. I just put up with the problem and never tried to actually fix it the parts replaced were for other reasons.
The stearing gear has inner locks and the one I replaced it with was from advanced, and I think all they did was put new seals in it and not actually rebuild it. So I've wondered if it was allowing me to turn just a tad to far. This one I am installing is better quality. I also discovered I have some play in the centerlink joint at the pitman arm. Its up and down not wobboly but the dust cover is missing so I am replacing the centerlink as I do the gear box.
I broke my tire rod seperator last night (it spread around the joint instead of going in) so when I buy a better seperator today it should come apart more easily. Yea I know cheap tools, but It suficed for the first rebuild of the front end.
I should have it done and the alignment done in a couple of weeks I'll let you know my results.
Im having the exact same problem. So far i have changed the centerlink,idler arm and both ball joints but still have the same problem. Next im going to install the wonderbar and replace the bushings, hopefully it helps. if anyone finds a fix to this before i do, please share and ill do the same.
Read my post "ultimate 3rd gen suspension" where I discribe the SAI and scrub radius.
We have a built in inherent defect in chassis design the wider the tires get.
The increase of scrub radius as a result of the SAI and the addition of the wider wheels onto these cars (i.e.- IROC 8" wheels with 'Front' and 'Rear' offsets 16mm different for brake caliper clearance) have thrown off the Ackerman engineered into these cars with thinner more neutral scrub radius tires the chassis was engineered for.
Baically, if you were to put the car onto turnplates with both tires pointing straight forward at 0* each? then turn the outside corner wheel to 10*, you want the inside wheel to be 12-13* range. positive scrub radius and spindle arm geometry to the steering linkage cause a loss of Ackerman angles and cause the front wheels to figft eachother toeing in and lifting the nose of the car at tight low speed cornering.
What do you do about it? You need to alter your spindle/strut mounts and have a VERY GOOD FRIEND with an alignment shop that also has knowledge.
Basically, most of you will have to live with the problem.
The factory did not build in provisions to adjust this.
When you say atler the spindles/strut mounts what exactly does that consist of?
The two big bolt that mount the strut to the spindle. You can slightly 'fudge' this angle, but you had better have a friend with an alignment shop to check it for you and repetitively try and equal both sides if you try and elongate the holes just a small bit- or else you will be spending ALOT of money on alignments after everytime you take the car back home to disasemble this aand elongate both sides more then guess again on how much you try and gain as well as match each side.
This is not a normal alignment adjustment. Alignment techs do not do this for you, nor would most even know that you could slightly fudge this.
There actually is a kit that was sold once for altering this. It was pretty ingenious but I do not know the safety of the bolts made (if they were cheap chinesse made or good grade 8 quality). These bolts need to be torqued to somethibng like 180lbs if I recall eaxactly off the top of my head.
The kit in my opinion does look fairly safe from a reputable company called Intrax.
the part # is 99.9.014 and it gives an adjustment range of +/- 1.75* which is pretty major.
I personally elongated my spindle holes on the top ones. This kicked out my SAI and decrease my positive scrub radius witht he wider hub face I had on my custom brake package combined with my 8" factory IROC wheels and 245-50-16 tires.
This will be very hard for most of you to understand- matter of fact I know that most all of you will not understabd this at all. It is very important to good ahndling of a car and driver imput control. SAI is factory engineered and set generally in design and not ever altered.
So back to this kit- It is sold as a "camber kit". These eccentric bolts should not be used to set camber, they are used to set SAI (steering Angle Inclination) SAI is basically an UNCHANGEABLE factor on a spindle, however, where we have Mcpherson struts where the spindle and strut act as one we can 'fudge' this via these two bolts (I really should do a stick post on just this topic). the only thing that happens with this is the loss of camber overall up top on the strut mount adjustment- which can and will be bad for most of you. The lower the car is the less affect this has and the better off you end up with overall camber specs. This is going to be so hard to explain! I will try and get pictures off of some alingment sites to see if anyone lists a good picture of SAI ans IA (Included angle) and how they result in camber settings and scrub radius.
