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Old 01-13-2010, 12:05 PM   #1
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running powersteering without pump?

I just bought another iroc from a friend, an 87 and it has skinnies on the front and he is running a powersteering box with no ps pump. Its not too difficult to steer with the skinnies. My question is is there any problems with doing this? Im wondering if I should just get a manual box or hook up a powersteering pump or leave as is..
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:58 PM   #2
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

Are the lines looped? If you can find a manual box you will be better off changing over to that.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:58 PM   #3
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

Thats not normal to run power-steering box with out the pump, i think power-steering is better. but if you were to stay with power-steering, you'd probably need a new steering box because the old one might be all worn on the recirculating ball bearings and Teflon seals, its less headache to a re-man on then try to track down new ball bearings. Unless they're still good, if you tear down the box and find it to be good condition still you could get away with a just a rebuild kit. The excessive effort to turn the wheel puts some wear on the rag joint too, new one is added to ensure no shaft play. Looks like you might need to change the bottom Crank pulley to add the power steering belt and a new bracket, bolts for the steering pump. you could get a re-man steering pump w/res and pulley for about ($70). Then you would only need the high pressure hose, a low pressure hose Clamps Res cap , and a power steering oil cooler. In my car its nothing but just a 6 foot hard metal line over by the radiator. thats stock. In the end you might want a manual box afterall.

-Rag joint($10)
-Crank pulley($15)
-Power steering belt($5)
-New bracket($10)
-Bolts ($5)
-Powersteering pump w/res ($55)
-Powersteering pulley ($15)
-High pressure hose ($16)
-Low pressure hose($3)
-Clamps ($3)
-Res cap ($7)
-Power steering oil cooler($20)
-Inline oversized powersteering filter ($13)* Not required
-Gear Box Rebuild Kit ($42)
-Powersteering fluid ($7)
-Loan-Tool (pitman arm remover, powersteering pulley installer)
-Snap ring removal tool,
-Torque Wench Ft/lbs
-Locktight Red
-Grade 8 everything
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:40 PM   #4
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

you can run that box if steering effort is not too bad. I would connect the lines that come out of pump titself and pour a bit of fluid in it just for lubrication purposes. Or you could swap out for a manual gear box. Both will work fine
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:42 PM   #5
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by transam85dudeman View Post
Thats not normal to run power-steering box with out the pump, i think power-steering is better. but if you were to stay with power-steering, you'd probably need a new steering box because the old one might be all worn on the recirculating ball bearings and Teflon seals, its less headache to a re-man on then try to track down new ball bearings. Unless they're still good, if you tear down the box and find it to be good condition still you could get away with a just a rebuild kit. The excessive effort to turn the wheel puts some wear on the rag joint too.............
He is running no power steering pump because it's set up as a drag car. No need for power steering. Especially with skinny tires up front. Plus the static drag from a power steer pump steals a lot of engine power.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:18 PM   #6
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 91interceptorZ View Post
He is running no power steering pump because it's set up as a drag car. No need for power steering. Especially with skinny tires up front. Plus the static drag from a power steer pump steals a lot of engine power.
I did a dyno run with and with out my PS pump belt on on my 84 camaro w/ the 350 in it. There was a 2 hp gain removing the belt, which could even be considered dyno varaince. So it doesn't "steal" much engine power at all, you only even notice the pump when you are actually putting a load on it (turning the wheels) going straight it just by passes.

ANYWAY

Get a late 80's S10 box manual box and put the camaro pitman arm on it if you wanna go cheap/affordable real manual steering. Or loop the lines as recommened to keep crap out of the box and lubricate the internal it makes it a little easier to steer from what I understand and if you leave it open contaminates will get in and trash the steering box.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:19 PM   #7
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 91interceptorZ View Post
Plus the static drag from a power steer pump steals a lot of engine power.
That's debatable. There's little to no hydraulic pressure when the wheels are going straight. The only time the pump is under any kind of load is when you're turning. The slight steering effort while going down the track won't cause much drag on the pump.

Power steering components are heavy. Remove the pump, brackets, hoses, fluid, cooler (if equipped) and power steering box and replace it with an 84+ (4 bolt top cover) S10 manual steering box is a huge weight saving.

Even though the S10 box is 7 turns stop to stop, my car with an S10 box still only does about 3 turns from stop to stop. Slow speed turning is probably harder with a power box with looped hoses than with a proper manual box.

The earlier S10 boxes can be used but it takes a little more effort to do the swap. The late model boxes are a direct fit. Manual steering boxes were available in S10/S15 trucks with a 2.5L 4 cylinder engine however not all 2.5L S trucks had manual steering.

Using the Camaro pitman arm keeps the same steering geometry because of the slightly longer length but using the S10 pitman arm will only increase the turning radius. With the large slicks and a spool in my diff, I don't have much of a turning radius anyway.
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:35 PM   #8
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

im pretty sure in a straight line you aren't robbing any engine power because there is no load on the pump.....no if you are road racing its a different story, but then i think you may want power steering for the ovious reasons
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:19 AM   #9
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

Its not looped, its been cut and pinched. Oh this will be my summer street car btw seeing weekend track time. I traded my plow truck to my friend for it and bought his plow truck. Didnt want to but I couldnt pass up this iroc, 350/350 4.10s, all aftermarket tubular chassis. Its in his garage right now till spring been too cold too mess with it right now.

I located a manual box but the guy wants $100 for it and wont budge, I think thats a little much im going to try and locate one at the junkyard today supposed to warm up to 34.. dont think ill find one but never know.

So you guys are saying that the box is probably shot now from being driven with no pump? Manual box is definetly way to go? Or if its not too difficult to drive, leave as is?

Five7 u said the manual box is only 3 turns lock to lock for you? Do you think the fronts will be too skinny for the street? They are 165s, I was thinking of swapping to 15x5s and 195s and a manual box setup might be better for street driving, especially with buffalo potholes!
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:43 PM   #10
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

My 3 turns from stop to stop is because I have a tubular k-member and a-arms. The original steering stops on the spindles have nothing to hit against. With 27.5" front runners, if I turn too sharp, the tires hit the inner fenders. My steering has been slightly modified and my ackerman angles are all screwed up but I'm not concerned about wheel track when I turn. To keep the tires from hitting the inner fenders, I welded on some 1/2" adjuster bolts onto the a-arms to act as steering stops. Even though the steering allowed me to turn farther, the ackerman angles got worse so my turning limits ended up being 3 turns from stop to stop. Like I said above, I have a wide turning radius but with big slicks and a spool, it's hard to make a sharp turn anyway.

Your 165R15 tires are very short. 24-25" tall. They won't have any clearance issues however a lightweight skinny rim isn't designed for street use and can easily be bent.

As for the power box, it's probably wrecked now from running it without any lubrication.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:43 PM   #11
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

We used to run power boxes with no pump hooked up on entry level circle track cars all of the time because it was a cheap way to get ( a little ) quicker sterring ratio.

I used to run them with short, open- ended hose turned down kind of like breasthers, but it is better to run the two ports together. Don't plug the fittings, LOL!
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:03 AM   #12
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

these are the ball bearing i was talking about, Basically the ***** in the worm gear that actually moves the gear. And without lube the seals wears out creating scratches in the bore and metal flakes. Its setup that way because fluid is supposed to do all the work, think of it like a relay. a small input is only needed to activate a bigger more larger output, like a relay, . great thread also.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:32 AM   #13
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Re: running powersteering without pump?

How long would it take to wear out like that, he said he didnt drive it very long like that. I may still get the manual box, cant find one in the jy's, looks like i might have to shell out the 100 for it.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:32 AM
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