I replaced some completely worn out struts last weekend (they were basically falling down themselves and would not come back up). I figured I'd just go with the Gabriel Ultra brand for now since I mostly just cruise back and forth to work with the car in the summer. Here's the kicker though - with the old, worn out, non functioning struts, the car felt super tight and responded to every little steering input. After I replaced them, however, the car's steering is not as responsive and even feels loose. Also, at around 50-60mph, the steering wheel wobbles a bit. Out of curiously, how many threads can you see above your strut's top mount where it bolts to the strut mount? Any ideas? (other than chewing me out because I didn't get Koni's or some other astronomically priced strut)

Did you have an alignment?

JamesC

My guess is NO alignment to start. Also with the wore out struts with no support made the steering feel tight. Now with the weight back were it should be all the play is from wore out steering parts are now being felt.

I had the car aligned last September when I put 4 new tires on the car. That was less than 500 miles ago. I have also recently replaced the swaybar bushings and endlinks front and rear. This tightened the car up considerably and it handle extremely well even with the crapped out struts.

I'll buy that since the steering compenents are original to the car that they are more than likely thoroughly worn out. But sheesh, almost makes me want to put that crappy struts back in!

What would you suggest I replace?

I suggest that not having an alignment after strut replacement may be the problem.

JamesC

I have a buddy that could check the alignment for me, I'll have him do that this weekend when I go in for my rear end rebuild. I did not replace the strut tower mounts and simply unbolted the old and bolted in the new. Is the alignment affected in this case?

Anytime the front struts are replaced, the front end should be aligned.

Suggest you look at the front end kit from Spohn. I and other people had good luck with that kit. Only other item you need is ball joints. One stop shopping and they will fit.

Your OE components are more than two decades old. Replace everything and have an alignment, then you'll see how "super tight" the car feels. You also might consider adjusting the steering box.

JamesC

Could you elaborate on "adjusting the steering box" a little? My steering is also a little sloppy and the car will wander a little over rougher roads. I am about to change the struts and then have it aligned but would like to learn more about what else I may have to do.
Thanks

Removing slop in the GM steering box
Part One
contributed by J. Matthew Daugherty


Does your car wander across truck grooves in the road, but didn't used to? Does the steering wheel have a lot of travel before your car begins turning? Generally feel numb on center?

Having a car with over 100K on it assures you that you'll have some chassis parts to replace and some steering "slop" to take care of. Idler arm, drag link, tie rods, ball joints, steering box, shocks, springs, bushings all could use replacing when they're high mileage.

The stock steering box on your g-body [and f-body] has an adjustment that is free, takes very little time to do and requires minimal tools. This adjustment removes slop in the preload of the gears in the steering box.


Tools

3/16" allen wrench
5/8" box end wrench
lubricating oil

Procedure

use oil to lubricate threads of locknut and adjustment plug (right on top, can't miss it)
raise the front end of the car so both front wheels are off the ground
put the box end wrench on the locknut
use allen wrench to hold the adjustment plug at the top of the box
holding the allen wrench stationary, loosen the locknut with the box end wrench several turns
turn the adjustment plug clockwise until snug to remove slack, then back it out 90 degrees.
holding the allen wrench stationary, tighten the locknut, remove wrenches
start car, run steering wheel through full rotation, checking for binding
if binding, repeat steps 3-8, backing out adjustment plug slightly more
lower car from jack (stands) drive car, note improvement!
I was AMAZED at how much slop this took out of the front end of my 131K '86 Monte Carlo SS (factory quick ratio box). I seriously doubt it had ever been done by prior owners.

I had recently put new upper ball joints, inner & outer tie rods with billet tie rod sleeves, 235/60 tires on stock 15x7" wheels, and have much more in store, but this made the biggest difference. Hope it helps someone.

JamesC

Awesome adjustment instructions. Takes almost no time at all and a dramatic improvement. I may do it again to see if it will tighten up a bit more. I still have about a half inch of wheel play at all spots that I'd like to get out but until I replace my thoroughly worn struts and get it aligned I won't worry about it.

THANK YOU for the great step by step instructions.

that 1/2" of wheel play you speak of sounds like the ragjoint.......

Right, the ragjoint....

What's a ragjoint? Is it as free to fix as the steering box was? If you could be as detailed as JamesC was I'd appreciate it.

THANKS

BTW, No hurry. I have to work on it outside and after near 70 degree weather it's now snowing in Chicago!

A pic:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/at...o-shaft1aa.jpg

No free fix. Kits (note the brand and p/n in the following link) are apparently available. Here's a how-to:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/su...ment-gory.html (Rag Joint Replacement... Gory detail inside)

Here's a replacement, which I know nothing about:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Camar...#ht_1490wt_923

JamesC

ok. Thanks again.

Yeah, with a MacPherson setup like ours when you take apart the bottom flange of the strut you change your alignment numbers. I'm sure some people would simply mark it and eyeball it but... that's kinda why it is more cost effective to redo all the alignment changing parts at once. Bear in mind that items that don't directly "seem" to change alignment may affect alignment by altering suspension geometry.

But I can tell you for sure that a car that "seems" to have an o.k. alignment that goes "straight" down the road can leave you clutching the wheel for dear life on a rough road if your alignment numbers aren't right. I think most people view an alignment as simple toe settings but some really twisted caster/camber numbers can make a car pretty scary to drive

Getting it checked is cheaper than a couple tires! (or body panels...) Buckle up.

BTW, if you don't know much of what you are doing - watch out on the steering box adjustments or you may pay for it the hard way.

James is right on with his advice
You've gotta get your front end checked for worn parts and get an alignment
When you replace struts and all your other parts are old, it raises the suspension enough to enhance all the sloppy worn out connections and you'll get all kinds of play, wandering and bumping

Your dynaimic suspension balance is now loading the front wheel more that the old strut did. hence, the front wheel is taking more of the blunt weight rather than allowing it to colapse and loosen the diagonal rear tire weight which made the car rotate easier.

This lack of give will now also put strain on your worn strut mounts nd allows more slop in the strut shaft position since the strut compression is more rigid. In other words, the forsce is now being transfered to the next weakest link in the suspension.

A few people here have already touch on other oints as for suspension height changes due to new possible gas pressured struts compared to old sagging ones, as well as unbolting the strut from the spindle and bolting on new ones can and usually does change the SAI, IA, and toe.

Umm, ya, what he said
Thanks for chiming in Vetruck

I know you are somewhat teasing with this remark, I did laugh.

On a serious note to anyone reading what I wrote, it is a simple focus on the force applied to the vehicle and how that force transmits into every part in the chain. hwat it was doing, and now what it is doing as a result of the change in parts or settings.

I recommend to anyone to just pull your wheel off and study how the force is applied to any part and figure out the direction that part is being forced and why it is affected the way it is. Suspensions are really fairly simple to understand when you look at it from this stand point. The complex part is what is affected when one thing is changed, basicallly how 3 other things sometimes need to be changed so that they...well....do not change.

Sometimes I think circle track racing is easiler to set becuase I can pinpoint one specific section of corner without really effecting changes to others since the car is nonsymetrical setups and only turns one way unlike a street or road race car. Even though there are way more settings in circle track, one you learn how they all work you realise having all those separate settings makes things way easier to fix one particular problem.