chrisbarrondc

Just bought an 89 Firebird Formula... has a couple of issues and def needs some TLC... first and foremost the driver side strut tower is rusted... This is my first project car so I have a steep learning curve here... Whats the best course of action? Anyone know a good salvage yard in northern VA/MD/DC? Can I order a new strut tower from somewhere on line? Thanks in advance!

wretched737

How rusted is it? A pic would certainly help

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

This REALLY depends on what you mean by rusted... As wretched said...pics are essential for any help from us.

However...keep in mind that the strut tower is a VERY important part of the unibody of our cars. While vehicle weight isnt really on the strut mount or strut tower, it still sees a good deal of stress.

That being said...Its metal. So anything can be fixed up with the right amount of work...again, depending how bad it is.

Post up some pics and let us see what ya go!

J.

chrisbarrondc

Will post pics later today!

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Still doesn't sound as bad as the guy who had a rusty hole!

chrisbarrondc

Here are some pics of the rusty strut tower... Thanks in advance folks...

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

that needs to be replaced, ot at the least repaired, but that all depends on how much further the rot extends.

you cant buy a new one, they dont exsist in the aftermarket, and you'll probably never find a NOS one. so getting one from a junkyard car is the way to go.

its will require a lot of cutting and welding.

chrisbarrondc

Do you think its in such rough shape that it shouldnt be driven till its fixed?

itsMikey

i wouldnt drive it like that..but thats just me..

just get some caster/camber plates since u need em..

http://www.foundersperformance.com/p...er-Plates.html

wretched737

If your skills arent that great in welding and fabricating go to a good shop and have it fixed, and dont worry about c/c plates yet...

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

he has bigger worries at the moment that shiny new strut plates

eseibel67

Sorry to be the one to break the bad news, but that car is not repairable.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

it sure is repairable, anything is repairable, would it be expensive?, yes.

my biggest concern is, whats the rest of the car like if that part is rotted already?

wretched737

thats a terrifying thought

itsMikey

okay...buy OEM replacements to only buy the plates later

Gibson

if it was me, that car would be parted out and a new project would be found.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

did you not see the holes in the tower itself? that needs to be fixed before he buys new stock or aftermarket mounts.

looked at the pics again, i can see rust under the top tower cap, through the alignment holes. Im pretty sure the entire tower would have to be cut out and replaced with a tower from a doner car. And the install is critical or the alignment will be a disaster.

itsMikey

ohh..dam dude...my bad..lol..i didnt even notice that..

id just make it a doner car in that case...

spudz

its fixable. Ive seen the whole strut tower replaced after a wreck so I am sure it can be done for rust. Is it worth it? Probably not if you have to pay someone else to do it.....

White'89

iTrader: (8)

There was a third gen at my local scrap yard with similar damage that someone repaired and it did not look satisfactory. I'll be going back soon so maybe I'll take a picture for ya. They used what looked like 1/4in flat stock with holes in it(I forget the technical term)

eseibel67

It's gonna be difficult, even for a highly skilled welder, to stitch the new strut towers to the air.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

i know, im not really sure how that piece is attached to the rest of the front structure, im sure its intergrated with a ton of other BS, and its not as simple as drilling out 200 spot welds and installing a new piece. Its going to be a daunting task to do properly. If the rest of the fron end is sound, i suppose the damaged top portion can be sectioned and replaced, but again, tricky.

If i had a spare car sitting around i would give it a shot, would be a challenge.

chrisbarrondc

Thanks for all the advice... Took the car this morning to my mechanic to get the strut tower replaced. I know it wont be cheap, but clearly it needs to be done asap. Will keep yall posted...

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

That is a job for a body guy, not a standard "mechanic".

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Dont let anyone tell you that cant be fixed... IF the hole is just there, and the rust isnt too terrible anywhere else, its fixable. Hell, guys replace the entire front subframe of these cars sometimes.

IF...IF...thats the worst part of the car, and the rest of the car is nice, then you made the right choice getting it fixed. If the body guy wants like 2k to do the work or something like that...then maybe think about moving on to a nother project.

Good luck and post up some in progress or finished pics of the repair!

J.

chrisbarrondc

Thanks. I will def keep folks posted on the repair.

eseibel67

Take it from a Canadian - that is a very familiar pattern of rust holes.

There is no chance that the only rust holes are the ones staring you in the face. The whole car will be swiss cheese. Rust isn't selective enough to just eat the driver's side front wheel well.

I'm trying to help you here. I want to prevent you from spending a huge wad of cash on a car that's beyond repair. Make sure you get that thing up in the air for a full inspection before you agree to have those 2 holes repaired.

It's easier to bail out than to go down an expensive road to nowhere.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

That is much better advice than "Sorry to be the one to break the bad news, but that car is not repairable."...

Haha... No way you can tell him that from that picture. Just like those of us saying its fixable can only take it at face value. Of course he needs to check for more rust. But THAT rust alone doesnt deem the car junk.

I admit, it looks worse than I thought it would. I havent seen many thirdgens rusted in that spot as bad as it is...unless the car is a complete basketcase. Which kind of makes me believe that might be the worst spot. Rust CAN form in a single spot and rot without the car being swiss cheese. Ive seen it on other cars... Just looked over an older VW Golf. Was missing the entire top of the strut tower. Rest of the car was spotless.

But I do agree to a full inspection of the car if it hasnt been done yet BEFORE the work is started. If its too far gone, now is the time to realize that.

J.

EDIT: Just looked closer at the pics... Didnt even notice the rear hole. My postion of it being fixable still stands. But its gonna take some work. Which just brings me back to "if thats the worst part of the car, and the rest is really nice...then it might be worth it" scenario.

Either way...good luck!

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I have to agree on inspecting the rest of the car.. A car that is rusted that bad will almost definitely have rust elsewhere, and maybe worse.

In my experience, and I've seen lots of these cars (in good and bad shape), I think that you might be better off finding a IROC in better shape with no or little rust.

But like it has been said, it can be fixed, although at what cost? You could get a decent IROC for 3000$ still, maybe 4000$, might have some mechanical issues but atleast you might get one without body problems. Better to fix mechanical problems than body problems IMO.

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

Top of this thread confused me. I was wondering "what the hell are caster camber plates going to do for some major body rot like what's on his strut tower?"

Anyhow, just as pretty much everyone else has said, do a very good inspection of the car. Strut tower doesn't seem like a big issue, but what may be hiding underneath could be. Good luck, hope it isn't too bad.

micktroup2

I would pull off the front bumper, hood and fenders and give it a good looking over before I approved any work... just my 2 cents. I have some rot issues with my car, so I know how you can get tied in emotionally when you should be cold and analytical. Good luck.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

OP, have you been under the car? what do the floors look like?

godreject

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure the rest of the car has some serious rust as well, depending on severity and cost it might be more cost effective to move on to another project. can we get some more pics of the car.

The_Maniac

iTrader: (2)

My '84 Z28 has some strut tower problems too! A couple years ago, I found a dealer in Warren Ohio with NOS at $300+ per tower (NOT happening, $600+, I would be better off finding a new chassis).
My '84 has a lot of sentimental value to me. It's already gotten new aftermarket floor boards and as of '03 has been in the garage as a SLOW restore project.
I do intend to replace my strut towers and recently got some NICE once from an '86 Berli in a Pull-A-Part yard. Here's pics and info:
http://crzyz28.sytes.net/mycars/84ca...h5_towers.html

I have a ways to go until I will be cutting the old ones out. But outside of those towers, since the floors had been replaced, the rest of the car is 90-99% solid.

chrisbarrondc

Maniac, thanks for the link... I am glad I aint alone in the strut tower repair/replace hell...

Guest

Without you having to even say this, I reaad your first post and came immediately to the same conclusion when I looked at the picture. God forbid what the rest of that car looks like underneath. Part it and run.

The OP will only be retaining for a poor quality car that will continue to rust away and fall apart, Heck, even good 3rd gens have rattles and body flex- what the hell does everyone think this car will do- is anybody but eseibel67 thinking here when they give someone else this advise and waste his money and safety? We are suppose to be helping the community with this forum, not hurting there pocket books. I would rather hurt pride that pocket book. Scrap that piece of crap car and find another car to drive.

This quote is as far as I read and I had enough. Don;t care to read further.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Agreed... Unless there is immense sentimental value it's definitely not worth the money.

The_Maniac

iTrader: (2)

Just do yourself a favor, before committing to the task, look the entire car over. If you have a LOT of body problems (holes rusted through in the frame, floor pans, rockers, etc, it may not be worth it). Get the car safely in the air and check it out.

Also, I had a LOT of people say "the strut tower sheet metal is REALLY thick, if that rotted, then the car is junk". Most the strut tower is THIN sheet steel (same grade as your doors and floors). It's the top or the "cap" of the tower that is thick.

Do your own research on the topic, but here's how I see doing the job to do it RIGHT (and this is from studying the body and from cutting ones out of a donor car).
1. - Remove engine
2. - Remove fender
3. - Remove wiring harnesses and other items in the area
4. - Probably going to remove the dash (some welding close to the firewall is needed, don't want to damage anything there from high heat).
Removing the old towers will require drilling out spot welds and some cutting and beads.
There is more involved, but that's the beginning.

It can be done (otherwise GM would never had sold replacement panels).

My Z28 is the 2nd car I ever owned (and I drove it during my senior year of High School). My car has been through a LOT, but at this phase the body is not too far off from an average restore job (hence why I will replace those towers and work towards a restore).

OH and from my research '82-'86 Camaro/Firebird towers all have the same part numbers (Camaro and Firebird are interchangable according to a parts break down I have). '87 and I'm not sure if it goes all the way to '92, Camaro/Firebird towers share a different part number. I suspect the only real difference is in '87 GM changed the coolant and wiper fluid bottles and they mount differently on the towers (but I don't know 100%).

Hope that helps. Don't take on the task lightly! Make sure the car is worth it.

J91

That car is finished, the time and $$ it would take to fix it is not worth it, you could buy a better one for that kind of $$$$. Listen to what these other guys are saying, I live in the rustbelt (Ohio). I got tired of trying to patch up 3rd gens and went out to AZ. and bought a very clean roller for $800. It is my current 3rd gen, and I will not sell it ever. If you like these cars, find a clean one and keep it....Good luck....

chrisbarrondc

I get the car back from the body shop today... Both strut towers were replaced... The car was thoroughly inspected and it isnt swiss-cheesed with rust... Will post pictures of the new strut towers this afternoon...

The_Maniac

iTrader: (2)

I would LOVE to see any and all pics you have (especially if any of them was from the body shop as they did the work).

Here's to hoping no other surprises!

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Care to share how much he charged you to do that?

chrisbarrondc

Here are some pics of the new strut towers... Check out the beginning of this thread for pics of the old rusty strut towers...

chrisbarrondc

It wasnt cheap... $600 per strut tower... But worth it (at least to me)

dannyboyemt

did they do a full replace or just weld them?

chrisbarrondc

Full replace on both.

jsanders

Actually... $1200 to replace both of those is hella cheap if you ask me. I had a small softball size ding in my Honda Civic about a year ago. Turned out to be about $1000 in damage. So replacing both of those for $1200 is not bad at all. I think you did the right thing.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

OUCH! I guess living in a rust free area has its advantages. Unless it has a VERY sentimental value, it wouldn't get fixed around here.

A buddy of mine just bought a 89 convertible with LT1/ZT56 in it for $1800 & drove it home 110 miles, with zero problems. Needs paint & needs a few body fixes, but rusted towers = scrap car around here.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Good for you for getting it fixed right!

chrisbarrondc

I am glad I got it fixed and fixed right. It's a great car that's going to be even better once the restoration is complete. Next up is the interior but I will save that for a new thread!