puma1552

iTrader: (1)

My car seems to have very sloppy steering; I can turn the wheel 3-4 inches either way before the wheels turn. I've got new tires on order which should be here on Monday and will be put on next Saturday, so I thought it might not be a bad idea to have the front end shaken down good since it's been a while and I want to make sure everything is tight up front before putting on the tires. I took it to a couple different dealers and it needed a wheel bearing repack (which I did), and both dealers independently said it needed an idler arm as well.

I just ordered the idler arm online and will also have it put in next Saturday right after the tires and then have it aligned.

I didn't think much about the steering when I was at the dealer, but now I realize the idler arm may actually be what's causing the slop; I know everything in the steering is good otherwise, as nothing is leaking and I just had the fluid flushed a couple days ago.

Good chance the idler arm is causing the slop?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Idler arm won't do that. Its usual symptom is, the car seems to be going straight, and then all the sudden, it takes off in some new direction when the pavement changes. Plus, a generally mushy sort of response; and/or, strange tire wear, especially on the edges. (hard to imagine how someone would let the other things go on to the point that it would cause THAT, but, yeah....)

The usual things that create the steering wheel play are, the center link (it has the joint that goes to the Pitman arm, i.e. the ONE part that connects the steering sys to EVERYTHING ELSE); failed "rag joint" connecting the steering column to the gearbox; or, poor adjustment of the steering gear due to wear.

Put on your thinking cap, and then go outside and LOOK AT your car from underneath, while THINKING about "single point of failure". THINK and LOOK are the operative concepts here.

TallTim

iTrader: (2)

I vote for Sofas gearbox idea. You can have someone turn the steering wheel and from the top see the steering gearbox move the pitman arm below it. Easy place to start.

i-rocing88

i agree, had the same prob with mine, so i went all new tie rods, center link, idler arm, and gear box. gear box was last and that took an inch of play out itself. good luck

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Either way it's getting replaced since it's bad, was just curious to know if that can be a contributing factor to the slop. Pitman arm is tight.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I dont feel like I have a ton of play in the wheel in my car. It's not super responsive at dead center but it does respond. but I have this weird sensation like the car is darting around randomly. It does it especially when I get on or off the throttle as Im shifting. The less attention I pay to shifting super smooth, the more I notice the car darting around. I am wanting to blame my poly LCA's in the back, but the way you describe a bad idler arm seems to somewhat fit. Is there anything in particular I can look at to see if my idler arm is the problem?

L695speed

Pitman arm is a non wear part. Its just a solid chunk of metal. I agree with others. The steering box adjustment can do a lot if it hasn't been done. I did it on mine and it was a significant difference in feel. I rebuilt my front end while re doing the car, I didn't do the steering box but I've got a feeling I may wind up having to sooner or later.

8t2 z-chev

somewhere i read on here a '90s astro van steering shaft
(with u-joints instead of rag joint)can be used in place
of original rag joint shaft to "tighten up"the link between
steering wheel and box.

L695speed

You sure it wasn't a Jeep column/shaft? I've read about those too. Gonna do some hunting around for these threads.

This thread? https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ing-shaft.html

or these...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/su...-steering.html (97 Astro Van Steering Shaft Swap info)
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/su...ing-shaft.html (Flaming River Steering shaft)
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/su...rag-joint.html (steering shaft / rag joint assembly)

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Yup, both of those sources of alternative steering shafts have been used... no idea which is "better", haven't got around to needing it yet

naf

iTrader: (7)

To check your idler arm, grab the end of it from above and check for any play up and down. If it's bad, it will be readily apparent.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, but read more than just the title of the thread.

GTA1990

iTrader: (1)

I had a sloppy steering issue. Similarly no leaks. Tightened the steering gear (as per the posts on TGO) and made a big improvement. Much less play between turning the wheel and the steering engaging; but still nowhere near as good as a new BMW.

Maybe worth giving this a shot as its free and easy to do; patience required though. Any adjustments shoudl be made in small increments.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I know this kind of late, but this is relevant to both sloppy steering and the idler arm...

So i went and tried this, reached down there and shook it up and down, and there is a lot of play on the steering components side of the idler arm. The body side is stable. Not really sure what that means, but it's an eye opener as far as narrowing down the problem. Makes me think my steering box may be okay after all.

Im not sure what the big arm is that the tie rods and idler arm connect to, but I could see it moving around as I messed with the idler arm. Not sure what to make of it. Is it normal for there to be looseness there, or is that likely the problem?

i-rocing88

OK, that's the control arm. No you should not have play anywhere in your steering. Those parts aren't to expensive and easy to replace. I'd reather spend a little than have it to break on me going down the road.

TallTim

iTrader: (2)

I think he's talking about #2 in the pic which is the center link.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, the centerlink and tie rods attached to it were moving around a bit. The tie rods were probably only moving because the cetnerlink was moving around.

Do you just replace the whole centerlink? THe idler arm? Or are there bushings that you replace there? Never messed with steering components before.

TallTim

iTrader: (2)

rockauto.com the parts and you'll see the pics. Everything basically gets replaced and the old stuff tossed. Moog is pricier but lifetime warranty. Ebay has a complete set for super cheap but must be made of cardboard or something. I just did the parts you are talking about including the rubber dampers at the top of the springs. Kept the springs and the struts as they were ok. Tips - remove idler/tie rods/center link all at once removing only the necessary bolts to get it out in one piece. Then compare as you reassemble to match the new as close to the old as you can. Esp the tie rods as there are supposed to be min # of threads showing each side, a particular clamping method etc. When removing mark the idler arm on the frame to line that up best you can too. Then go for the alignment when done. Double check all the torques when back from alignment. Sometimes the lazy don't torque after adjusting and at best your alignment goes off and at worst a wheel passes you as you go down the hwy....
Oh yeah and if you pull the springs (I took the LCA's out for cleaning/painting/new ball joint and bushings pressed in) go slow are careful and use a safety chain if you take them out compressed.
HTH

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

All my suspension components are good, it's all been replaced over the last few years and I know all about playing around with springs, not nearly as hard as people think it is, just gotta have the right technique with a crowbar.

So that's one reason I figured I was having a steering-specific issue, since the suspension bushings are all new and the car itself feels GREAT in the corners, but the steering is still sloppy.

So what all do I need to replace? Tie rods, centerlink, idler arm, and pitman arm? I hear the pitman arm is an epic PITA to remove from the steering box...

naf

iTrader: (7)

I wholeheartedly apologize for posting an answer in your thread that was not posed by you. I'll make a note to avoid, in the future, any other threads you may start. Again no offense was intended, I'm sorry that some was inferred.

TallTim

iTrader: (2)

Idler arm, inner and outer tie rods, tie rod clamps, center link. Pitman arm prob not. When you get the center link off you will see if it has elongated the hole in the pitman arm which is unlikely. Remember grease gun too. ... when you gonna start?

Steven6282

If you plan to replace everything I'd throw out the suggestion of Spohns front end rebuild kit. It comes with everything you need (idler arm, tie rod inner and outer ends, tie ride connectors, center link, new castle nuts to hold everything on and all the ball joints are already in just need to screw in the included grease fittings and add more grease to them). This is what I used when I redid my steering and I was very pleased with the quality of it, and my steering feels amazing now. I had problems similar to you before I did it, I didn't notice it so much when shifting, but when changing lanes and driving on roads with nice worn out tracks, the car would dart around, sometimes in a very fast / scary fashion lol. I had originally thought it was cause of the new higher grip tires I had put on the car a few months back, but after rebuilding the steering those problems went away

Also just to note, you shouldn't really need to replace the pitman arm. As stated previously in this thread it's a non wear part. The Spohn rebuild kit does not come with it either. The only thing this arm does is bolt to the bottom of your steering gear box, and then one of the center link ball joints goes into the other end of it. So the pitman arm is literally one chunk of metal. Unless something very very drastic happened to over enlarge the holes on it, or to warp it, this part shouldn't need replacing.

One other thing worth mentioning, the idler arm is probably the most difficult part to replace when doing a front end rebuild. The two bolts that hold it to the chassis of the car, are down inside holes that you have to get to from the passenger side tire well area. On mine the nice 26 year old bolts where a huge pita as well, having to use an extension on the socket it was very hard to get enough torque on the head of the bolt while someone else held the nut on the other side to get these things out. And then if you drop one of the bolts before getting it past the fender well, it may be a pita to retrieve, I managed to not drop either so didn't have to find out just how hard it was lol. Point to this, I'd recommend going ahead and investing in new bolts / nuts for this part while doing this unless yours are in very good condition