Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hi everyone

I'd like to put some new rear springs into my '88 Camaro TBI. I read in this forum that there's a problem with the Moog ones. Many of you cut them because they get the car too high.

So my question is, is this problem the same with AC Delco and Raybestos springs as well? If so, are there any other brands of springs for the Camaro which don't change the height so much or do I have to live with it if I don't want to cut the springs?

Thanks,
Thomas

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

No one here using Delco or Raybesto rear springs? :-(

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

If they are OEM replacements, they will make the car sit like it did from factory. You must remember these cars are now over 20 years old. That means the springs that came on these cars are 20 years old they settle over time so naturally the car sits lower over time. When you put new springs in it brings it back to OEM height.

There's always lowering springs, but the car usually will sit lower than it does now. Its up to you in the end.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Okay, thank you.

I just thought that maybe there are differencies between the Moog and the Raybestos / Delco ones.

Actually I would just like to get my rear to handle better in curves. Recently I felt like in narrow curves with an uneven road the rear almost jumps and that scares me a bit. But I don't want it too stiff. I like the typically "boat-like" character compared to many contemporary cars. So I thought maybe there are some ideal combinations of springs and shocks to not overstiffen the rear. I have to change my fuel pump so at the same time I'd like to overhaul my rear end (LCAs, shocks, springs, panhard bar, maybe even the sway bar). In the forum they always talk about how to stiffen it up, but there are no threads about how to keep it quite similar to how it was in a new condition back in the eighties.

So maybe someone can give me a hint. I thought I'd take the Founders Performance Lower Control Arms and Panhard bar. Take some OEM replacement springs and maybe the KYB Gas-a-just shocks. I don't know about the swaybar... should I replace it as well or just the bushings? What about the Torque arm? It all doesn't look very good anymore optically but I don't know what's giving me trouble with the rear at the moment. When I go over uneven roads I can hear a chirping / squeaking sound from behind. Not sure whether it's the shocks, the LCAs or whatever...

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

That sounds like the rear lower control arm bushings are shot.

The rear end "jump" you describe sounds like your rear shocks need replacing.

As far as I know they are all the same spring; just re-packaged.

This would be a wise choice. Make sure you get adjustable ones, you wont regret it.

I personally would try and get the best shocks & struts you can get. But on a budget the kyb's will do. If you want a nice ride you could try out Bilstein. They are great shocks!

I've run both Koni & Bilstein shocks and they both ride nicely while still giving you great control.

plum92_camaro

Nobody ever regretted buying KONI's. KYB's aren't bad. I have the gas-a-justs in my 69 and they ride well. The thing to know about the gas-a-justs is the compression valving is designed stiffer to make them FEEL higher performance. I've heard that the KYB AGX are very versatile for all types of uses. What do you do with the car? spirited driving? Drag racing? AutoX/Road racing? Eibach Pro-kit is a great mild upgrade V.S. OE replacement springs.

Just a suggestion. You have to weigh it all out and decide whats best for your cars needs. Everyone will tell you not to go cheap on your struts and shocks.

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Hi together

I use my car just for daily driving. I like it comfortable and I don't ride aggressively. I just want to change the worn-out parts that have an impact on driving stability, so no tune-up and I want to keep the costs low. I'm from Switzerland, so the shipping costs will increase the costs.

For the adjustable LCAs and panhard bar... if I use the stock replacement springs (Moog) and don't do any tune-up ... do I really need adjustable ones? Could it be that the non-adjustables will cause me troubles? I think I wouldn't be able to adjust the adjustable ones correctly as I'm quite a beginner at repairing cars ;-)

So you think the AGX are less stiff than the Gas-a-just ones? I thought AGX would be stiffer. If you say the Gas-a-just just FEEL stiffer, should I turn to GR2/Excel Gs or even other shocks?

Another question: Do I need the relocation brackets if I put in the new LCAs? And what about the torque arm and the panhard bracket (above the panhard bar)? Is there any big benefit changing them?

What about the sway bar? I thought to exchange it as well but it seems hard to find one at an acceptable price. And am I right that I have to mesure the diameter of my sway bar? I'm really new to suspension so... if I choose the wrong (24mm instead of 22 mm for example).. can that be dangerous?

Thanks a lot for helping a beginner :-)
Thomas

PS: The good thing about the shocks is, they aren't excessively expensive (at least when I try the cheaper ones first, so I can still upgrade if I feel like it).

plum92_camaro

Good luck! Hope this helps.

Stewie

Let me jump in to give my 2 cents. My bird is a daily driver. I wanted it to handle better in the curves, but not bounce my kidneys loose every time I drove over a bump. I found what made the greatest difference in handling was installing heavier front and rear sway bars. I also installed a wonder bar (steering brace) at the same time & you should too. The wonder bar prevents the steering box from tearing out of the chassis. Here is my experience installing those items: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...-handling.html

If you install 36mm front and 24mm back sway bars, you will do fine for a daily driver that is a lot more fun to drive. You may be able to find a 36mm at the bone yard from a V8 Firebird/Camaro.

As for shocks, the adjustable shocks are very nice, but very expensive. I decided to go with non-adjustable good quality struts & shocks (Tokico Blue) which I got on-sale (but, still NOT cheap). I also installed Moog springs. The Tokico's are nice and ride/handle better. However, if you plan to occasionally do some autocross, etc. you'll want the adjustable struts/shocks.

The Moog's raised my car higher, back to stock height. Some owners like the looks of a lower body, hence the lowering springs. I think mine looks fine and it's a more comfortable ride than the old sagging springs. In fact, with the new shocks & springs, as I was driving over some railroad tracks, a friend expressed shock how much smoother it felt than her mother's late model Maxima. Wooooo, did that make me smile .

However, if someone gives me a set of Koni yellows (adjustable), I'll gladly take them and enjoy the heck out of having them. I just couldn't justify the price for my daily driver. But, with my current set up, when I get on winding mountain roads, it is a blast to power through the corners and pass the rice burners. It's not as scary as when I had the smaller sway bars . And, more forgiving if I make a miscalculation on a corner or I'm not paying attention.

Something, I'd like to do is go from my 15 inch wheels to 16 inch. I think the bigger, wider tires on 16's would make a significant difference in handling with more rubber on the pavement.

Again, just my . Enjoy your rid!!!

Thomas Stahel

iTrader: (1)

Thanks a lot for your opinions and tips.

So, if I don't like the height with the Moog springs, maybe I'd like to move to the Voigtland Lowering ones which are offered also by Founders Performance. But as I understand this would mean that I'd have to buy the adjustable LCAs, panhard bar and relocation brackets, right? They sell two different ones, fully and single adjustable ones... what's the difference? And how are they greased? Is it difficult to correctly adjust them?

@Stewie: You told me about the Tokico shocks. Does "better" mean they are even stiffer than the KYB gas-a-justs or rather softer? I'm in two minds about the decision KYB vs Tokico.

Also I heard that it would be better to have softer shocks in the rear and harder shocks in the front... or is that not true?

About the swaybars... well, it's not that easy to find a 24mm rear one. And as @plum92... said, in corners this might lead the rear to slide in cornering...? You said, the ride would be better so two different statements? Isn't a sway bar even a non-wearing part? I might as well only put new bushings and end-links, no?

Oh, and something completely different.. front end... last winter I put new steering linkage on the car. But still my steering wheel can be turned quite a few degrees until the wheels turn. Someone told me that a bit of clearance is normal on these cars. So it's just the steering box? It's just that when I'm driving on a fast lane and the ground is uneven or there are heavy winds I feel a bit uncomfortable because the car is hard to keep straight in line... I'm always steering but as I said there's quite of a clearance and I always feel I'm not really 100% under control of what the car is doing.

Thanks,
Thomas

plum92_camaro

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...-stocking.html
Here is some info on the Vogtland springs. The good info starts at post #17. I wouldn't buy them simply cause they are a progressive/variable rate springs. I would only use linear/constant rate springs for performance reasons.

If you do lower the car, the rule of thumb seems to be that you can get away with 1" without having to buy adjustable parts to correct geometry.

I realized when I wrote that it does sound contradictory so I'll try to elaborate on sway bars to the best of my ability. Sway bars main function is to control body roll. Bigger/stiffer bars will reduce body roll. AutoX/road racers will change rear sway bars to increase or decrease oversteer. Soooooooo, you see a stiffer sway bar can increase oversteer BUT will you be cornering as hard as a car on the racetrack? Am I making sense? Do all the people with the IROC's and WS6's complain about how dangerous the rear of the car is cause of the large rear sway bar?

And yes, the sway bars are a non wear item. just need to keep up the end links and bushings. One of the few places I recommend polyurethane. Make sure to use plenty of grease if you use poly bushings on your sway bars.

On your last question, I had the same thing last year. I replaced the entire front steering (and suspension) and still had some play in the steering wheel. A search on here led me to how to adjust the steering gearbox. It was easy and I have had great steering feel since.