TreeFiddy

Hey guys. I am doing a general front suspension replacement/upgrade, and want to use the Founders strut mounts.

I have a concern with my stock lhs mount - is very close to the brake mc, just about in contact. If this is unusually close, I don't know:



A few questions:

Q1: The Founders mount main body looks slightly wider diameter, and taller, than the stock mount - has anyone had interference issues? In my case I don't have any wiggle room.

Q2: The inner two caster adjustment screws on the Founders mount (have no pic handy but I assume we're all familiar with them ) look like they would fetch up sitting under my mc reservoir with any decent amount of camber set, making them hard to reach and tighten fully. Any comments?

Q3: The Founders mount is raised 1" for lowered cars but I am staying stock height. The new struts are KYB AGX, with approx 7" total travel. I have done some measuring - the stock mounts will position the strut at approx 50% travel at the rest position - ie 3.5" travel for both compress and rebound.

The raised mount will reduce the available rebound travel to about 2.5" from rest before the strut tops out - is this a concern? I found one thread here where a guy had a new 'clunk' after the install.

I have been in contact with Founders, who said they have not seen customers having problems with these concerns, and that the main housing is offset a little towards the fender, so there shouldn't be any problems.

However looking at the attached pic you can see why I want to assure myself things are OK before I get a set shipped across the planet over here to Oz. Thanks anyone who can comment.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

I've seen some people add a washer or two to the firewall mount to angle the mc more toward the engine. Enough for some more room but not affecting function too much if at all. That is a lot of negative camber though.

plum92_camaro

I have the J&M Products/Hotpart.com strut mounts (same as founders). I haven't had any issues with my MC and strut mounts hitting and I can get about -3*. I have enough room to get the camber I need without worrying about the two hitting.I don't have a picture of the mounts slid over and I don't race again till possibly 9/14 or for sure 9/20. I would be glad to take a pic and post it for you next time put the car in "race car mode". I can tell you the lower your car is, the more negative camber you can get but too low can cause other issues with handling, driving, etc. They are easiest to adjust with the front suspension unloaded. Torque on the 3 nuts is 28 newton meters. I couldn't find the torque specs in ft/lbs and never bothered to look at the other side of the wrench to see when it's set.

It is difficult to adjust the konis with the mounts slid over (usually -2.5*). Especially the drivers side one. Almost can't get the **** on the strut.

Edit: I just re-read your post. Q2-I believe the screws your referring too are the caster adjustment screws. Once the car is aligned you should never need to adjust these again.

How much camber you planning to run? You won't need more than -1* degree for the street. -2* camber is about all you'll get at stock ride height anyway.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

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This is the best picture angle I have of my setup to answer your question. I purposely switched to the fourthgen master cylinder and booster because the setup is more compact.

TreeFiddy

Good idea with the washers, though of course I've made life harder for myself by adding that fuse panel on the firewall

I have actually never changed the camber since I bought the car over 10 yrs ago. Like a lot of these cars, the camber was set to the max possible, equalling about -1.9 degrees on the rhs (the only side I've measured so far). I assume the left side is something similar.

This is not a race car, for the street this alignment has always handled well and produced even tyre wear, so I don't want the strut mount change to force me to lose camber.

Yes - I meant the caster screws - I'm concerned they'll disappear under the reservoir and be hard to fasten with the camber setting I want. Though I guess if this was really a problem other guys would have complained by now. I'm just trying to assess things by looking at pics only.

There's a good idea! I don't really want to go to that length, but it's on the table as a solution if I do have a problem. Did you have an interference issue which forced you to do that?

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

With the stock strut mounts and springs of a stock height I had no problems with the Thirdgen combination. I had heard as you did that it could be an issue and I thought after twenty years it may be wise to just replace them anyway. They fit and install exactly as stock, fueled soul did a great write up on it.

plum92_camaro

-1.9*? You're lucky you get even tire wear. -.5* to -1* is plenty for the street, but it's your car, set it up how you like it. I run -.8* on the street and usually -2.5* on the track. Here is a good alignment reference for our cars.


You shouldn't have to worry about the caster screws. You set the caster first, then camber, toe last cause the first two will effect toe. Even if you run maximum negative camber, you can set the caster and tighten the screws before you slide the mounts all the way over to set camber.

TreeFiddy

That -1.9 deg figure is from my highly accurate measuremet method, of holding the root of a bubble levelled set square against the brake disc with one hand, a ruler to measure the couple mm offset of the square from the disc a known distance away from the root contact point with the other, and reading the angle of the subsequent slanty line I drew in Autocad.

Could be some errors crept in

That street alignment is pretty much what I`ll take to the shop when this is all done, with the caster figures reversed for the roads here. I have no idea what the current caster angles are, but a little more pronounced self-centre action would be nice.

Tibo - can't seem to locate that particular writeup by fueledsoul - can you link it?

Thanks for the responses guys! From this and a whole lot of image searching, it looks like these mount generally fit in ok but without a whole lot of room to spare. If the loss of droop travel is a problem I could alway fab some spacers to shift the bearing plate down in the housing using longer caster bolts. I think I'll order a set.

plum92_camaro

i have an even caster. No issues.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/brak...r-mc-help.html

khulsebus

iTrader: (2)

I don't have a pic of the drivers side, I thought I did, but my founders mount is nowhere near the brake master cylinder. I'm sitting at about .5* camber, and 6.5-7* caster. As far as I know, I've never bottomed out the strut as you are concerned about, and I'm at roughly stock height (I've got V6 springs and Koni yellow's). As for the caster screws, access to them isn't an issue. While the body of the mount may be slightly bigger, the footprint of the mount is much different. My car was repainted from red to blue, and the mounts hadn't been removed, so now I have a nasty red spot pretty much on every side of the strut mount.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I am assuming you are using V6 springs because the LS engine is much lighter than the stock engine with it's iron heads and heavy components? Or was the car a V6 and you just haven't changed the springs? I would be interested to know the total vehicle weight and also the weight as seen with scales under each wheel to show corner weight.

TreeFiddy

I figured that the main body was a little larger than stock by waving verniers around various pics on my tablet, but that the main body was offset away from the mc, so that sounds consistent.

My car has also been resprayed, from red to white by a PO. I hadn't even considered the footprint change, but my repaint seems to have been done properly with everything taken off, so hopefully should be ok. I've ordered a set, so will see how they go.

khulsebus

iTrader: (2)

I put the V6 springs on all four corners, because it sat sky high before. I was able to crawl under the car and work before, even with the sub-frame connectors. After I finished with the springs and struts, no way. I have no idea what springs were in it, but the spring compressor couldn't compress them all the way to get them out. It wasn't pretty, and I did prove the myth correct that they will fly out. This by no means was my first time removing the front springs on one of these cars, I've had two others before this one and I took both cars springs out multiple times

I thought mine had been done well also, every jamb (doors and hatch) is painted past where the interior covers the masking line, under hood was done well, the underbody was masked off well and also painted in something black (paint or POR, there is a thread on the build, I just don't remember with out and reading it again), but it seems I found the one spot where a shortcut was taken.

Not trying to take this thread up anymore than I already have, if there are anymore questions about my car, you can PM me or ask on my thread. Back to the OP, any more questions about the mounts?

87camaro kid

I think I'm the guy you are referring to with the new clunk after installing the founders plates. I still have not figured out what the issue is but it sounds like my KYB's are bottoming out because it only happens over large bumps. Keep us posted after the install on whether you have the same problem.

I am assuming there is no problem for those who have the Koni's because they have a longer travel range? If that's the case, I now have a great excuse to purchase a set. Anyway, would love to figure this out because I can only imagine the damage it will cause.

khulsebus

iTrader: (2)

I have no idea who was being referenced to about the clunk. You may be right about a difference between a Koni and KYB strut. I'm launching pretty well, and as far as I can tell (as much as the video's have shown) I'm not pulling a tire yet. Maybe once I get a new converter, but I haven't heard a noise yet.

TreeFiddy

87camaro - yep, you were the guy I was referring to. I came across your thread after a bout of spirited searching, sorry it seems you never had any replies. I didnt find anyone else reporting travel problem with kyb + Founders with stock height cars - do you think your new clunk might be the strut running out of travel?

As I see it, if the strut top is bolted an inch higher than stock, there will be more compression travel available from the 'rest' position, at the expense of droop travel. Can you tell if your new noise happens when the wheel drops in a hole?

87camaro kid

I believe that it what's happening. When it drops in a large pothole it sounds like the internal's of the strut are over extending. Its definitely not from the strut being to far over and not having enough clearance under the wheel well because there are no marks or dings to suggest otherwise.

I also believe my front end might be a little higher than stock. I replaced the springs with moog but I reduced the weight up front with aluminum heads and no more A/C. So I'm guessing that is making it worse.

TreeFiddy

Ah dammit, just what I was hoping not to hear. I've already ordered a set of the strut mounts, so I guess I'll just have to see how it goes.

Although I suppose, as far as I can see the only thing that limits the downward travel of the a-arm is the strut fully extending, so I would guess they're designed to handle it. Shame it makes a noise though; guess it depends on the deepness of the pothole.

I will also be using the Moog 5662 springs; it's currently only sagging about a half inch from stock as far as I can ascertain, but I'd like to get back a bit of height. I'm sick of destroying the nose on my sloping driveway, and the little ballet manouevres I have to do to avoid it.

87camaro kid

It doesn't happen often, only on extremely bad pavement. Once I start working on the front end again I may cut a small section of the coil off. But I am hesitant just like you because even with the new springs I'm still scraping even though the front is raised higher than before the replacement.