camaro1185

Its been SOOO long since I have driven a stock suspension third gen, that I honestly cant remember how they ride. I know they are firm, but how do they ride when going over bumpy roads. My car SLAMS over bumps (big bumps) and no matter what I have tried it doesn't seem to get any better. The car literally beats me up and am at a breaking point to where I am seriously considering selling the car for something else. In addition to it riding really bad over bumps, it doesn't seem to handle much better than it did with all the worn out stock stuff.

This is more of a rant, but would love to hear options of how peoples cars are set up and how they they ride over smooth and bumpy roads. Also if they get beat up.

FYI My setup:

32psi all around Falken 912 tires on stock 16" irocs
34mm front/24mm rear sway bars with poly bushings and end links front and rear
stock lower control arm with global west del a lum bushings
Eibach pro kit springs: 714 lb/in linear front 1 inch lower/109/177 lb/in progressive rear 1 inch lower (stock isolators front and back)
Tokico Illumina 5-way adjustable shocks (Set on 4f 3r)
UMI subframe connectors (weld in)
UMI tubular rear control arms with roto joint at body and axle
UMI rear re location brackets
UMI adjustable panhard bar with poly bushings
UMI camber caster plates - now stock rubber ones just to see if it helps
Performance alignment that may be screwed up now due to changing the camber plates out

nhgator

My car-

Fairly new monroe struts and shocks
Founders lca's and panhard bar-new
all new sway bar bushings and end links
umi wonderbar
stock springs w/90k
recent ball joints/tie rods etc and alignment.

Rides like a frigging tank,sticks well on smooth roads,sucks on bumps,like pretty much every f-body I ever owned.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Was hard to transition from the cushy Grand Cherokee ride to my Z after 6 years of not driving it too. New suspension all around KYBs and founders LCAs, wander bar. Corners like a go cart but has the same jolts as one over bumps. Got used to it after a month or two. I'll take your car off your hands if it is so unbearable.

plum92_camaro

I've had my 92 (with F41 firm ride suspension and 16x8 wheels) for 15 years this fall. I had the stock suspension under it until spring of 2013 when I upgraded for autoX/RR. I was always satisfied with the ride and handling of the stock suspension, but after 20 years the suspension was wearing out and my new obsession with autoX was pushing me to upgrade anyway.

Stock suspension on these cars I think is very well done. Soft enough to enjoy comfortably and firm enough to still be some of the best handling camaros yet.

camaro1185

Ok it seems like the consensus is these cars with aftermarket suspension ride really hard over bumps but with stock suspension they ride well.

The whole reason why I started thread is because I have a co worker whos got a 92 rs, with my same springs, poly bushings all around and kyb shocks. His car rides like a "modern car" with no slamming over bumps, no creaks and rattles and its handles like nothing I have ever ridden in. From the passenger seat it sticks around corners where I swear it will give a brand new corvette a run. It is seriously unbelievable. He built his as more of a good handling street car with no intention of autox/track day. I built mine as a auto x track day car, and it is horrid on the street. In addition another friend has basically the same exact setup as me other than bushings and his car rides sooooooo well too.

Again, this is more of a rant, I plan on re doing the suspension again to build more of a street car but wanted to get an idea of how other peoples cars rode.

Joe tag, as much as the car pisses me off sometimes I will never part with it, but you know the famous saying, everything is for sale for the right price!

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

I know what you mean. I swore I'd never sell mine, had it going on 16 years now. Someone asked about selling it the other day and numbers came close to what I have in it,(at least in the last 4 years) had me thinking for a split second. But it's not going to happen. Going to have to pry the keys from my cold dead hands.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

Jamex springs
Koni yellow shock/strut
Spohn sway bars
spohn tq arm
spohn lca
lca relo brackets
airbags in rear springs


Rides like a tank on 17's
Rides ok on 15" drag tires/rims

I am thinking about doing some cheap shocks out back as the Koni compression is not adjustable, they are STIFF.. Monroe or kyb will probably help smoothmit out... I would like a smoother ride.

aramirez121

if you also want a good suspension try air ride works wonders

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

My '88 T/A WS6 t-top car rides like a lumber wagon. The sounds it makes going over bumps exaggerates the ride. It's 100% stock, 54k miles. On smooth roads, quite comfortable. On rough roads with potholes (IE: Michigan), it can be a kidney bruising experience.

Remember too that your friends '92 has a body that used body adhesive at the panel joints. I had a '91 RS with this. Between that and no t-tops, it was a much "smotther" ride, or at least that was the perception. Oh, and I was 25 or so back then. That helped too.

camaro1185

This is depressing to hear.....

Do you think your springs can be sagged and your riding on the bumpstops?

I refuse to believe these cars rode this rough stock.

Jenkins

Have an 82 Trans Am, non WS6, stone stock right down to 14 in aero rims. Rides soft, not what a TA should handle like. Smooth or rough rides don't seem to matter. Barely feel the bumps in the road. On the plus side, the car does not rattle or squeak at all, even on the worst roads. My car does not have t tops though, and 50,000 original miles.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

I don't think so. Look at the gap between the tires and wheel wells, and judge for yourself (I know...bad lighting in the photo...harsh shadows make a little hard to see). Personally, I'd like to lower the car for aesthetic reasons, but can't imagine what this will do to the ride. There was never much rear suspension travel in these cars. The rear cargo limit in my owner manual is a whopping 100 pounds.

It is possible that the OE gas shocks/struts are passed their prime. I do hope to replace them in the next couple of years.

Jay_rich

iTrader: (4)

Fairly stiff here. The Wife hates it and wont allow the baby in it yet lol.
Its been a while since I measured the ride height to the fenders but I wanna say I set it around 26" to the front and 26.25" to the rear

87 Z28
Ground Control Weight Jacks (850lb F/175lb R)
Koni Yellow Struts/Shocks
Jegster Subframe Connectors
UMI LCA and Panhard
Custom TQ Arm and Pahard Relocation (both made by myself with 1.250 .120dom)
17" Zr1/SS Rims (275/40R17)

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

My car is pretty low. Nose is super soft because I ordered the wrong springs for my coil overs and the rear is stiff because I cut the springs. But the front fender rides about 24.5" to 25" from the ground, trying to gather funds for GC weight jacks and Yellows so I can go lower.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

Even with new shocks,struts, end links, front end alignment mine still hits bumps pretty hard. Springs are about the only thing I haven't changed out. It does go straight down the road and the suspension at 90k miles is better than the other 3rd gens ive had.Guess maybe I got used to driving my 86 monte-carlo.

camaro1185

Id almost guarantee your shocks/struts are shot. My car was bone stock when I got it and it had 73K miles on it. I think it had the shocks/struts replaced before I got it because they were monroe shocks (unless that was factory shocks back in 88???). When I took those out, I compressed all 4 and 3 of the 4 did not rebound back. Even so, the car seemed to ride better than than with new "high performance" replacement stuff. Maybe that tells me my spring rate is way too high for the street. 748 progressive (pro kit) vs 550 Iroc.

Stiff is not a problem to me, in fact i like stiff, but when going over bumps, my car SLAMS. It almost seems as if I have steel rods as the springs/shocks.

I have owned and driven many sports/sporty cars and they were all stiff but never had problems with the cars seeming to slam over bumps.

dixie wrecked

iTrader: (6)

Smooth as a Cadillac.
Stock worn out front end, rear end has 89 jeep wrangler Rancho lift shocks and a spacer to boot. Soon to have 05 liberty coils with 3" spacer and a shock relocation bracket, with either Rancho or Rough Country front shocks. Rollin on 31"s, I hardly feel a thing!

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

I'm always surprised by how well feels (in terms of smooth vs rough, etc). I don't get beat up at all and the thing handles like it's on rails. I have stock replacement gas shocks (monroe's) and gabriel struts (again, just stock replacement), nothing fancy. I do have poly sway bar mounts in the front and rear, and a larger sway bar than what it originally had in '83 (it's a 24 mm that came with the 9-bolt).

I'm running 15" rims with a 28" tire in the back and a stock size up front.

Occasionally I get some creaks but I expect it with a t-top car.

makingPAIN

eibach pro kit
founders- lca, strut tower mounts
spohn-wonderbar
umi-panhard bar
poly mounts on everything that can be changed

rides good very solid and sticky feeling in corners. bumps are not very bad but I know what you mean by you car "kicks your a$$" while driving it.. after about an hour in my car all you want to do is get out and stretch out.. your lower back will go numb haha

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I just picked up my 91 Formula (had 150k miles) a few weeks ago after getting a new rebuilt 10 bolt / Spohn Torque arm / Founders 3 Way Poly LCA's and Panhard bar installed...

I thought the car would be harsher with the Spohn torque arm, but it rode even smoother than before all that (10 bolt had all new bearings, Eaton True Trac, Richmond Gears, LPW Cover / Brace Kit, new drum brakes, etc...)

I was comparing the ride to my 93 Accord... it was really nice and also tracked well under acceleration... night and day difference from when I got it with 150k & tired stock suspension

Other mods...
Spohn and Alston SFC's (T-Top Car)
Bilstein Struts / Shocks
New Moog Stock height Springs all around.
James STB
Wonder Bar
Global West Del a lum A Arm bushings
All Poly Sway bar mounts, links, engine mounts & tranny mount.
Second Skin / Dynamat Sound Deadening
New front wheel bearings

I'm very happy with how it rides... it got better and better with each little thing I did to it...

Rafael

jermdm

I replaced my stock suspension with a stock suspension. Put in new acdelco springs up front. Its what acdelco's website had listed for my car. Put in new GM replacement springs in the rear. These were an exact match to the ones that came factory but were pricey. Acdelco rear shocks an front struts. Acdelco front and rear sway bar links. Still has factory bushings. Rides really good with no noises and handling is way better without the old worn out stuff.

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

Interesting. With the ruined factory suspension; my car would slam over bumps like how you describe. However now with 900lb front springs and 200lb rear springs plus koni shocks & struts the car rides firm. It does not slam over bumps at all. I'm running progressive shaft mounted bump stops on the struts, the original front bump stops were removed. The rear bump stops have been shaved down to accommodate my lowering job. How are your bump stops?

More questions...

Is your car's interior panels rattling over bumps? I can give you some tips on how to eliminate all interior squeaks and rattles.
Also how are your seats? Is the foam compressed badly in them?

My car is set up for handling; even so it rides nice and firm. While I can feel every road imperfection through my steering wheel (which I like); my backside is fine. What I mean by that is my spine doesn't feel like it's about to come apart over every bump.

What shocks & struts are you running? You may consider better S&S's and progressive bump stops. It sounds like your car is bottoming out over bumps. Also what type of strut mounts are you running?

aaron7

iTrader: (7)

You know I bet it has much less to do with suspension component choice and much MORE to do with the fact that the factory 14/15" wheels had tires with much taller sidewalls which led to a much softer ride!

That said, 6 months ago I sold the 14" American Racing mags that were on my car when I got it and swapped on 16" Formula wheels. Handling went way up buy my ride comfort took a dive!

SlickTrackGod

I could write a novel here,

Yes you can have great handling AND great ride quality. Its all about expensive lightweight suspension, brakes, wheels and tires, A stiff solid chassis, not a flimsy old unsupported metal fatigued unibody car. I stripped my interior and lined the entire floorbaoed with dynamat, weled up the enitre floorboard, custom braced several key areas , and spent lots of money on hight end expensive unsprung parts...and most of all I left lighter weight factory 8x16" IROCS and not some heavy *** aftermarket wheels that are too wide for the engineered platform.

My car road like new, and handled as good if not better then any stock exotic. It takes time money and knowledge, but yes it can and has been done with one of these cars. The unibody is the first biggest issue and simply slapping SFC/s onto it is a bandaid to a 25 year old fatigued chassis that will still creak and rattle.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Agreed about the wheel / tire size...

I have 15" Turbocast wheels and the tires are a tad taller than stock and wider too...

In general, so many cars have big wheels, which are great for the race track, but much worse comfort on the streets we drive on every day...

Rafael

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

Forgot to mention; I'm on factory iroc-z 16" wheels.

camaro1185

Good info. Yes my interior does rattle, any tips at all would be greatly appreciated! I have been after those creaks and rattles like stains on a mattress since I got the car.

I have trimmed my front bumpstops. IIRC, my eibach pro kit with stock bump stops were at 7/8" at ride height, cut down now I have over an inch. I cant remember how much i have now 1 3/8" IIRC?

My shocks and struts are tokico illuminas set 4 front 3 rear, and I guess they have to stay there because one of the adjusters on the front broke.

I had UMI camber caster plates, and this past week while the car was on stands for some exhaust work, i swapped to my stock rubber isolated ones. In addition to re centering my rear end which was way off. After driving the car a short distance last night they "seem" to handle the bumps slightly better.

I have been doing lots of research to educate myself on suspension, it seems my s&s may not be up to the task of controlling my springs. As I said if I cant get this car to ride better its going to be sold for something more modern. I don't like driving it anymore with how it rides.

camaro1185

FYI My setup:

32psi all around Falken 912 tires on stock 16" irocs
34mm front/24mm rear sway bars with poly bushings and end links front and rear
stock lower control arm with global west del a lum bushings
Eibach pro kit springs: 714 lb/in linear front 1 inch lower/109/177 lb/in progressive rear 1 inch lower (stock isolators front and back)
Tokico Illumina 5-way adjustable shocks (Set on 4f 3r)
UMI subframe connectors (weld in)
UMI tubular rear control arms with roto joint at body and axle
UMI rear re location brackets
UMI adjustable panhard bar with poly bushings
UMI camber caster plates - now stock rubber ones just to see if it helps
Performance alignment that may be screwed up now due to changing the camber plates out

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

The interior squeaks & rattles will exaggerate your rough ride. I'll quote my self from an older post. I got rid of all my squeaks & rattles by doing the following:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...ml#post5714495

I'll continue on next post...

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

I think you may be hitting your bump stops even with them trimmed. Either that or your bottoming out your shocks & struts. Have you considered going with bilstein's or koni's? On summit you can get them for around $700.

I've never used "illuminas" so I'm not sure how good they are. If they are like kyb's then I would probably just upgrade to a set of bilstein's or koni's.

You can get the progressive bump stops here:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/...tion.php/II=10

I used the "Soft progressive 19-24mm strut". I used these only on the front; I could not find a progressive shaft mounted bump stop that would work on my rear shocks. I stuck with the factory bump stops in the back. I trimmed them down into a triangle shape to mimic the factory pointed look.

These progressive bump stops will insure you wont slam your suspension into the chassis. With my factory rubber bump stops the whole car would jolt when I bottomed out. Since I installed these; I've never noticed my car bottom out. They have made a noticeable difference.

Believe it or not, I noticed an increase in ride quality with my founders solid bearing strut mounts. But I will admit my original rubber mounts were in bad shape.

I personally think your main problem is that your shocks & struts are not doing a very good job of dampening. This combined with your interior rattles exaggerating every bump is making your car ride poorly. Top that with factory trimmed bump stops and things probably get real shaky over rough roads.

Last but not least; I'm running a 36mm front/19mm rear sway bars. I was original running a 36mm front/24mm rear sway bar.
When I switched to my 19 mm rear sway bar my ride quality got a lot better. I think your 34mm front is fine and should stay; but you may consider changing out your rear bar for something smaller.

And remember, the F-body platform will never ride like a Cadillac. My car rides nice and firm and does not shake me to pieces; but it does not ride super smooth. But it also does not slam over bumps like you describe.
Either way your car should ride a lot better than it does now; you just have to work with it till you get it right.

camaro1185

Thanks. I have to agree. I feel my shocks would be better matched for a higher height stock spring. With my higher rate spring I think the shock is allowing it to bottom out either on the shock or the chassis.

Johngypsy

Hay guys, needing your help pretty much on the same topic, I am soo soo seeking the best all around corvette feel, smoothness and Corning a Iroc could ever want.

Have a 90 Iroc z with a 5-spd and a 5.7 liter Tpi to about 300 hp,
Hot cam and all the goodies a 3rd gen would want!
I have and not yet installed because I want to do this right the first time around, what I have now not installed and just waiting to get all and then put them all on at one time,

1) have koni yellow all around
2) 1 inch lowering springs, performance red by name I can't remember it's been so long ago I bought them but was over 300 dollars.
3) sphons rear welded in for lowering cars
4) front 36.5mm performance adjustable sway bar
5) 1 inch larger center link then stock
6) rear 24mm rear sway bar
7) sphons torque arm with loop and transmission plate
8) sphons adjustable front bar (long)
9) sphons sub frame connectors (hard-top)
10) all new Polly bushings, tie rods (factory) and new tire rods for toe
11) sphons adjustable pan-hard bar
12) front motor bay (struts brace) 3 angle

I have NOT got the rear control arms yet, had the box ones from Hoskins and just sold them thinking I wanted the adjustable ones?

What I am needing is this from you guys, what are the best for street performance driving on the rear control arms? Best handling ones, and do I need bump stops? Strut mounts? Or am I done? I just am looking for the feel that will say, wow! It feels like a vette and a smooth ride and Corning like a viper, type anyways,
Don't want to use it as a cross country but everyday driver, this will all be done in a week as I just got in today the sub-frame connectors,
Thanks so much

SlickTrackGod

You are asking for a miracle. There is a lot more to it then simply bolting on parts.

Its all about ride ratio and chassis stiffness. High dollar exotic suspenion and brake parts that are light weight. Light weight wheels and tires, Dynamat the twangy unibody sheet metal panels are all manditory on any 3rdc gen list for ride quality.

Ron U.S.M.C.

My street Camaro has all "stock style" replacement suspension parts including MOOG 5665 springs ,except for KYB "Gas a Just" shocks. Rides nice and firm just the way I want it.

It also has the Poly engine and transmission mounts that give it a nice "muscle car" feel with a little engine thump to it.

No rattles of any kind.

With that and the new rear ratio and Eaton Posi. the car handles as I said, exactly how I want.

I'm even happy with the 5.0 for now. I finally have worked all of the bugs out including having a new 1992 EPROM that Tuned Performance made for me with a few nice alterations. It runs good and strong down low.

I realize that those are not all suspention parts but they all play a roll in the way the suspension handles.

Johngypsy

do u know what are the best rear lower control arms out there for our cars? I just had pleased a order for the massive rear control arms with swivel type, they are so big compared to sphons and others out there, but want the ones with no noise type, don't know if the best ones are the double swivel or single with the bushing rod connector end,
Thanks so much
John

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

The best at what?

Quietest with best street manners?
Strongest, not so quiet?

I got the Founders 3 way poly joints and they are quiet and handle very nice, the rear end felt a lot better with them than the hard poly mounts from the others...

The metal jointed ones are stronger, but transfer more noise into the car...

Street car, go with the first...
High Power drag car, go with the second...

Colt

If your car is slamming over bumps, check how close your car is to the bump stops when it's at ride height. If it looks close, measure that distance and report that number here.

Johngypsy

Well. The only thing is. I have not yet installed anything at this time, I already have all of these parts and was wanting the rear control arms to complete my entire set up, which are:

1) 4-way yellow koni's struts and shocks (adj)

2) rear sphons adj pan hard

3) rear lower welded in control arm relocation kit,

4) sphons adj transmission torque arm with transmission plate adj

5) 4-way 1 inch lowering springs by ehcbouch? For got the spelling name,

6) rear and front sphons sub frame connectors

7) front 36.5mm sway bar (1LE)

8) rear 24mm sway bar

9) front hotchkis 3-way strut tower brace

10) front sphons bar for got the name. 88 and up has them, but bought a brand new one,

11) front center link bigger one in the front. And every single red new bushings I have and most have already been installed,

I have ordered and waiting to get in the massive super tough rear control arms, called the company and they said they are trying to get the single bushings and the front swivel ones for me as we speak,

Just wanna do this right, and at one time, I also have new bump stops and debaiting on getting the front strut holders for the front set? Don't know if that will make any improvements?

I am looking for a nice factory tight set up. That will wow me factor, without the noise as this will only be a daily and normal driving car , yes I have a 5.7 with a 5-spd, and it does about 13 seconds, but only have the power on tap for that Honda civic that will pull up next to me at a red light, I will NOT take her at a daily race car or track, just a weekend and daily with out the noise, so hope u guys can advice me, as what is said here is what I will choose and go with, money is not the issue, just wanna throw that out there, if I have to skip out on a few dinners with the wife and she says no to me for a month, (hope not) so be it.
Thanks again for all your help,
John

camaro1185

IIRC the front WAS 5/8" before I cut the bumps and the rear, probably around an inch. Ive never measured it. I think I may be hitting in the rear.

Colt

I had 1000lbs fronts and 200lbs rears that were linear and the car rode smoother and softer than my eibach 700lbs fronts and progressive rears that still had factory height bump stops.

Also, with the 1000lbs springs, the car was softer than my 350z. I'm now running 1300lbs springs, and that seems about right for me. My car is used for road racing, and I can say that the suspension geometry is just horrible with these cars...

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

I had a similar experience when I switched from my factory springs to my 900lb hypercoils/200lb landrums. You would think with stiffer springs it would ride worse but apparently not.

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

So true. You really need drop spindles or extended ball joints With a lightened front end to have a decent camber curve on our cars. That or just really stiff springs! It's all about the A-arm geometry.

camaro1185

Humm, so either stock springs or crazy stiff springs.

What dampers are you guys running?

I do not have the extended ball joint, just stock replacement. I remember reading about extended ones a while back putting the geometry of a lowered car back into spec with factory height. what other advantage do they give?

I do remember when lowering my car that the end of the a arm was now higher than the k member pivot (slightly).

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

Just over the counter koni sports. Nothing special.

On a 3rd gen; at a 26" front fender height or lower you should consider extended ball joints. When using ext. bj's; The only ill effects that I know of is a possibility of bump-steer issues. You would have to measure if you have any bump steer issues after installing them (you can buy bump-steer adjusters from baer; they are basically extended tie-rods. Part# 3301008 I believe.)

Colt

I have .75" extended ball joints and have koni yellows - SA fronts and DA rear. The car is a on weight jacks as well. Roll centers are still way too low with the extended ball joints.

How bad is the suspension on these cars? Well, can you name any other car that comes from the factory with a 36mm roll bar?

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

I'm sure you already know this colt; but for others reading: If you keep your front fender height at about 25" with ext balljoints you can still have a decent camber curve *as long as you get weight off the front of the car.*

You really have to get as much weight off the front of the car so you have less suspension travel. Less suspension travel means you don't have to use super stiff springs to control your camber curve (which means less a-arm articulation, less camber loss due to poor geometry); which has it's benefits. Add stiffer springs based on feel in conjunction with a lowered panhard bar & you can have a nice handling 3G.

I'm in the middle of swapping in an ls1 to get more weight off the front of my Z. With my iron sbc I still felt I had too much suspension travel; I had 2 and a half inches of travel even after I dropped 40lbs off the front! I hope to get under 2" of travel once I'm done with the swap so I can have a better camber curve without having to go to stiffer than 900lb springs (I'm also putting in an aluminum front bumper crash bar among some other little things for a lighter front end). It all adds up.

On top of being able to use lighter spring rates & having less suspension travel for a better camber curve; you get better weight distribution by lightening the front of your 3G. My car from the factory had a 56% front weight bias. Most 3g's have a 57% front weight bias; anything you can do to make your car closer to 50/50 weight bias will be good for cornering & feel.

Colt

I had to read over this a few times because I wasnt sure what you are talking about. I'm still not sure what you mean by "decent camber curve". I think you mean something about the relationship of camber change over suspension travel. I dont know what you are considering good or bad.

But, what you are talking about with lightening the front of the car is called changing the suspension frequency or wheel frequency. Basically, you are "changing" the spring rate by making the car lighter. You are saying that your current springs feel stiffer if the car is lighter. There is an equation/calculator to solve for this. You can find that here.
http://www.racingaspirations.com/app...ncy-calculator

What you are talking about with having less suspension travel is a little confusing. Are you just trying to make the car ride stiffer (thus less suspension travel) or are you trying to limit suspension travel to limit the camber change of the wheel?

Either way, looking at the problem from the perspective of suspension travel is a strange way to go about this.

Alice89

iTrader: (6)

I re-read my post; I can see how it came off as confusing. I was going off-topic; my post had nothing to do with ride quality. When I say camber curve I mean A-arm geometry articulation through travel.

I used poor wording/terminology. This is basically what I meant. You have less weight pushing down on the springs equaling less travel. This is good so your not losing camber with poor A-arm geometry. When I first lowered my 3rd gen; my a-arm's were almost parallel to the ground. In suspension bump-travel my a-arms were inverting causing camber loss. In other words my front roll center was too low causing massive under-steer.

With ext. ball joints & lightening the front end I was able to lessen my camber loss and raise my front roll center slightly. (The car felt way better after doing this.)

I'm trying to limit my suspension travel to keep the poor A-arm geometry from inverting; I'm trying to keep my a-arm articulation geometry intact through lessening the suspension travel. In doing this you get a better alignment curve.

Does it make more sense now that you see I'm trying to limit camber loss through less a-arm travel? (by having less weight on the front of the wheels)

Sorry if my terminology is poor. I do tend to let me sentences run lol; and it can be hard to read.

Colt

Are you saying that you had too much camber (negative camber - top of the tires are pushed inward) when the car was low?

SlickTrackGod

Hi Volt, What NoShow is saying is the static camber reading at ride height gains slightly as the wheel compresses up into the fender. As the arm inverts 9car being low, This angle when in relation to the strut mount pivot will start to come back towards the centerline of the car and thus not "gain" negative camber to compensate as the car rolls(leans) into a corner. An inverted A-arm will suffer from a camber loss (loosing negative camber in its articulation curve) the more the upper strut mount is extended in height to gain travel clearence on heavier cars.

By using extended ball joints you gain a dropped static angle of the a-arm 'while' retaining a lower ride height AND a better camber curve.

The problem the heavier V8 cars suffer froim is lots of suspension travel. You need to go to such high spring rates you loose mechanical grip in cornering. In order to run a heavier V8 car(even and LS) down to about 26" fender height you have to go to about 900lb front springs or greater and still will ssuffer from about 2"+ of dynamic suspension travel. In order to do this at a minimum you need extended height strut mounts up top for strut body travel clearence....Here's the catch though..

When you raise that strut pivot up top you also decrease the camber curve benefit with a longer strut assembly to allow for wheel travel. I lighter weight car and less overall travel is far more beneficial. I will give an examole using my old car specs-

I had a very light weight 60*V6 car that I extensively builtThe motor not only is 250 lbs lighter then the V8 cars, it also sits further back in centerline in the engine bay because of obviously the length of 3 smaller cylinders as opposed to 4 larger ones on the V8 block. This made the car very light weight. NOW THIS IS ALSO EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. What I did next was build massive but very light weight brake and hub assemblies that were 4lbs lighter in unsprung weight on each side of the car. I also retained 19lb factory IROC wheels on all four corners (custom made my front asseblies to accept the same rear offsets up front with almost perfect scrub radius through fudges SAI angles and a short overall strut assembly length. What this did is limit upward thrust weight of the suspension when contacting bumops and gave much smoother ride, more mecahnical grip, and far less wheel travel then the OEM parts do.

I had a car sitting EXTREMELY low at 24 3/4" static ride height. I ONLY HAD 1" normal ride travel and would go max over a severe bump impact of 1 3/8"-1 1/2". This was rare. the car NEVER taveled more than 1 1/2" ever up front. Because of this, I ran Custom Hunter billet alum strut mounts that were made in a medium rise heght so as to not overly add distance to the overall balljoint to strut pivot length....

...What this shorter static and dynamic length of the strut working length is gave me a better camber surve, a far better caster curve (caste rbuild is VERY importatnt- EXPECIALY when combined with a very low brake nose dive dynamic that the V8's also sufffer from. Regardless of caster build, if the nose dioves and the rear jacks you loose dynamic caster angle of the wheel footprint when turning the wheels in aid to camber gain. My car had a good camber curve from a low static ride height combined with the short strut distance and a limited travel. I had pretty much no noise dive at all in that car and it responded like a jetfighter compared to any 3rd gen Ive driven..and Ive driven probably 50+ different 3rd gens alot of race courses helping others.