Quote: Originally posted by r90camarors And you guys ripping c1500 for using wieght as a somewhat measurment are ignorant. The next time a Honda beats you in a race(TPI or TBI), don't even think about giving them the story about how his car only weighs 2,500lbs, and your's weighs 3,xxxlbs. I dont make excuses , if you win you win! If your car makes more power then it does. I wont bring up weight , engine size , cam size or head design and I wont start whining about the fact that my car came slower from the factory.

Ya know, the entire time I had TBI, i never bitched and moaned when some TPI guy said that TBI wasn't as pleasing to the eye as TPI....or some petty **** like that. I understand TBI guys getting defensive when someone INSULTS them, but getting offended EVERYTIME someone makes a statement that isn't in TBI's favor is stupid. Next time a guy posts a thread asking which is best, TBI or TPI, should we lie and tell him that TBI has NO faults what so ever just so we dont offend anybody? TBI and TPI both have their faults, and if you can't handle the fact that people are going to express their opinion as to which is best then you dont need to be on here. I said myself earlier in the thread that my swap from TBI to TPI wasn't worth what i paid...i didn't hear any TPI guys crying. But the minute I said something that favored TPI, some guy goes and cries FLAME! what's the deal w/ that? Lets stop this competition ****.....we're all 3rdgens, we're all capable of being fast whether you have TBI, TPI, carb, whatever.

Low C1500, what is your real and corrected trap speed? Never ever attempt to calculate wheel or flywheel HP from ET. It is completely erroneous information.

And to the rest of you: His ball park estimate could very well be accurate. I've weighed my car, 4400lbs with driver, after I pulled off a 15.7 @ 85.25. Dunno what that works out to but I would estimate my HP at about 215, MAYBE 220. No difference with Low C1500, except that the result is a number that wows all of you (400hp), and turns on that argumentative section of your brains. All I want to see is the trap speed...

gotta get the trap speed out.....

Ok guys,

My only 1/4 mile times are Gtech, 14.17s @104 mph. Go to NHRA.com and correct it for 4300 ft. Thats the real numbers I have. I know thats its bin said that the Gtech is a little high of MPH, I don't know. Also My buddys truck who did dyno out with a corrected flywheel HP @ 360 HP runs 14.8 @ 2200 ft. I agree about the real numbers issue, I would love to have a RWHP number for evry one, but as of now I don't have it. I know all the big boys that post on this site are TPI, some making over 400 HP, but I havent seen many, if any, high HP TBI guys making 350+, so I understand why people are calling me a liar. And a couple of years ago I did weigh my truck at a scale and it was around 2000KG, or 4400lbs. So don't tell me when I run a corrected 1/4 mile at 13.44s in a 4400lb truck, that I've got under 380hP, because that would be crazy........

Well, based on a 104mph G-Tech trap speed, I would guess you could pull off a 100mph REAL trap speed (conservative guess). Since your truck weighs basically exactly as much as a caprice, you're probably putting out AT LEAST 350fwhp, and more like 350-400fwhp...FYI for everyone else!!

Hey man, I noticed that you have a 9C1.....i bought the 9C1 crate motor a year ago. Could you do me a favor and tell me everything you know about it....cam specs, head flow, port sizes, valve sizes, etc. Or at least tell me where I can find all this. Kinda hard to plan what you're gonna do w/ ur motor when you dont know exactly what it's not ya know? any help would be greatly appreciated...thanks.

gtech is accurate to within a tenth of a second and I have seen plenty of proof to back this claim...

I've seen G-Tech be a few tenths off and almost 5mph off, while running with it at the track. It's only useful as a tool to determine if YOUR car has improved (or gotten worse) in performance over time. And even then, tons of variables change.

If you bought a crate 9C1 L05, then I can tell you about it.
Cam was the L98 cam, so you can look that up elsewhere (it's mild). Head flow - not good as far as I know. Swirl ports and convoluted gas passages (for a head) BUT you can still cam it up somewhat, do exhaust mods and even replace the intake manifold and make decent power. However, swapping to the L31 heads could bring you an additional 40+ HP depending on how many bolt ons, or what cam you chose.
It uses hypereutectic pistons with the normal 350 size valves - 1.94 and 1.5 I think.

What are you running for an induction system, TBI? Is it stock? Once you get up into the 280hp range, the stock TBI is going to become a limitation (and you could probably see gains from swapping it out as low as 220hp).

My plan was to do the whole Vortec thing - heads, $pecial TBI intake manifold. But I need to keep EGR and with headers, I don't see how that would be possible. Therefore, I may change my plans and go with World products heads and change the intake manifold to something else (maybe carb).

I started out using my old 305 TBI just to hold me over (my 305 blew, so i just had to get a motor, didn't have time to plan). Well about 2 months ago I swapped to a 350 TPI setup. So right now I've got K&Ns, air foil, AFPR, flowtech headers ( i need to go bigger), flowmaster on a 2.5 exaust, 3.73 gears and posi, and all the free mods. I still haven't gotten a time w/ TPI, but my best w/ TPI was a 14.8 @93.6. and a 2.1X 60 ft. time. (K&N open element, shaved throttle bores, AFPR, hypertech, same headers/exaust, gears as now). I too plan on doing the whole vortec thing. And I'm still not sure about the cam. I've been hearing that the zz4 cam is too small....but I dont wanna have to mess w/ the heads to get an LT4 hot cam to work. What came are you gonna use? Thanks for the info on the heads and cam....i was led to believe we had a peanut cam. And I was told by the sales rep that they were swirl port heads, but that's all he told me. Again...thanks a lot.

The world products heads dont sound like bad choice...they're pretty cheap. Oh, and I forgot to ask the most important question of all...how much HP and TQ did these motors put out stock? I was told 220? thanks

I have a 96 F-Body LT1 cam that should work pretty well to propel my 4400lb vehicle around town (not planning on swapping converters or rear). I would think the ZZ4 would be a bit of a hassel to tune. The F-Body cam is in the mid 0.400s for lift, duration is ok, but most importantly, the lobe separation is like 117*, so it will idle great and pull tons of vacuum.

The 92-93 9C1 L05 put out 205hp @ 4400rpm and 300lb-ft @ 2400 (or 2800rpm, depending on where you read). In 91, they still had a crappy exhaust and cat design, so output was 195hp. You were probably around 205 before you started to mod it.

So are you TPI or TBI currently? And which are you going to use in the long run?

To compare, I read in the 02 Accel Catalogue that Ligenfelter claims a 50ft-lb gain in torque on a LG4 with the Street Ram setup. You're Dad's a lucky man to gain that much with the swap. I'd imagine it's the Swirl Port heads that are doing that for him since the most torque a 305 made with TPI was 300ft-lbs and according to you numbers that would put him at 325.

Guys both systems are fine for performance.

Plenty of people have already stated how the TBI is much simpler thanks to its basic design. When you compare the two off the bat the TPI is better hands down. When you look at what GM offered in TBI configuration you must understand it was offered as a basic cost efficent and dependable package.

This is not to say that the TBI should not be used for performance however. The TBI has its place. Period. TBI freinds dont make a "war of words" with the TPI guys. They are on your side.

I personally think most of the guys who are into the TBI's are a little lost. I say this because Im seeing all the 305/350 guys running the 670 two barrel TBI. Its a great TBI mind you but If you like TBI that much do yourself a favor and buy the Holley four barrel TBI. My buddys S10 has a Holley four barrel commander system on an edelbrock intake on his 3.4 liter for christs sake!!

I have a 2.8 with a 400cfm TBI.
The 3.2 stroker in my garage has a 670 commander system.

• Get a decent single or dual plane plane manifold
• Swap your heads
• Go with at least the 670 2 barrel but try to afford a 4 barrel TBI
• buy a ractive fullsize Truck TBI air intake and throw away that stock assembly even if you have a k&n round and ram air.
• And quit your whineing

I mean whats the point in bashing one or the other system. Do a little research on TBI but looking in not so obvious places and you'll find the desire to just stick with whatever system you got and hot rod it like a real man. No more whining.

I'm currently running a TPI MAF setup. I plan on sticking w/ that.

I think it's more important to find a car you like, then try and determine if what's under the hood is adequate.

Before i bought my current daily driver, i knew pretty specifically what i was looking for.
87-89 formula, with a manual, preferably a hardtop. whether it was a tbi, or tuned port it really didn't matter, as long as it drove well and the AC blew cold. As far as induction i wasn't real concerned.. i've got a play car already.

Ended up getting an 88 formula with the 305 tuned port, 5spd, with discs all around, and 3.45 gears out back. It's about as stock as your going to find, it's got a K&N, and a single in, single out 3" flowmaster that replaced the fallen off catback.

i've had it down the track about 8 times. best of 2.09 60'er, and a 14.79 and 92.95 mph with it, which i was fairly impressed with. i have the added luxury of living 3 minutes from a track that's about 50 feet above sea level.

Is Tuned port a better system for power than TBI... yes, Especially if opioned with the gears, and the bigger cam.

They both have their plusses and minuses.. hell if i had it my way i'da found an 87 with an lg4/t5 and been perfectly happy.

It's more important to be happy with the total package than to ruthlessly hunt tdown one specific motor combination, for an every day car.

For a not every day car... It's Holley 4bbl all the way