TBIThrottle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.
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Im at a loss of what the hell is wrong with the TBI engine in my truck (please don't lock this thread - it IS a TBI after all.. ).
I've been struggeling to find out what is wrong with it since I bought it 3 years ago - and today I failed emissions and have a month to get it all straight.
The problem is that it runs wayyy rich and smoking black real bad (pretty much looks like a diesel if you rev it). It is particularily bad when the engine is cold, where it starts running really crappy if you just let it idle. It gets better when warm, but it is still a gas guzzler and smokes black.
When I went through emission testing today, the mechanic said that it has to be below 0.5 on the CO, but usually they are much lower. Mine was 5.83 on the first reading, then I took it out for a drive to warm it up so hopefully it would get a lower readin, but it was at 9.8
This is the stats:
1995 350TBI. Only mods is a full Gibson exhaust/headers +Catco and a K&N. 124K miles
What I have tried so far is:
New plug wires
New Cap/rotor (several times)
New sparkplugs (several times, different brands. Always gapped)
New CTS
New O2 sensor
New fuel fiter
New EGR valve
Timing is set at 4°
No SES light or codes
Any help is greatly appreciated. If I cannot get this within the legal limits, the plates will be revoked.
What were the rest of the readings? Usualy an overly rich condition will have very high HC's. Also do you have a scanner of any means, to look at what values the sensors are returning?
Unfortunately I don't have the rest of the readings. I didn't get a printout of them - he only wrote down the CO on the technical inspection check list.
I don't have a scanner either. All I have is a cheap "sensor-tester" I bought some years back, but it only had some LEDs for indication - no display to get any actual values out of.
Have you ever checked the fuel pressure?
A scanner would really help you.. I have seen a case where the CTS wiring was damaged/shorted.. It was obvious on the scanner, but the guy who had replaced the sensor assumed that couldn't be the fault because the sensor was new! Old wiring in an engine compartment needs to be inspected/tested closely.....
No, I have not checked the fuel pressure yet - but as soon as I find a way to, that will be done. Someone also suggested to check the FPR diaphragm for holes.
What would be a good scanner to get, and where?
Thats a good point on the wiring. I will look over it closely. I did check the ground for the CTS on the thermostat housing. Replaced the nut/bolt/washers to ensure good contact.
Originally posted by ChevyKen No, I have not checked the fuel pressure yet - but as soon as I find a way to, that will be done. Someone also suggested to check the FPR diaphragm for holes.
What would be a good scanner to get, and where?
Thats a good point on the wiring. I will look over it closely. I did check the ground for the CTS on the thermostat housing. Replaced the nut/bolt/washers to ensure good contact.
Keep the ideas coming.
Thanks!!
Ken
You must check the fuel pressure and regulator.. High fuel pressure will make it RICH!
Best scanner for you is one of the free, or trial software scanners..
Also, you said it throws no codes, is the CEL working? does it come on when you turn the key?
__________________ Red/Red 84 Vette. 383 Crossfire 12.26 at 114mph
Oh, cool! If you could point me in the right direction of one of the free/trial ones - that would be awesome. I have a laptop I can install it on.
Yes, the SES lamp is working (when turning on ignition).
I probably have to order a gauge for the FP from the US as I doubt I can find anything around here.
You need to download WINALDL written by Jonas Bylund (aka Joby). It should run on your laptop.
You will also need to make (with inexpensive computer/electronic parts) a cable + converter that will convert the data at the ALDL connector (usually under the dash but visible near the steering wheel) into a format that the laptop can recognize and work with.
For the cable, do a search (see button at the above right side of the screen) for ALDL cable and then read the various threads. One or more of them will give you the list of what you need to buy (cheap!) and the details on how to assemble it. It's all kitchen-table (or workbench) + soldering work. HTH.
I downloaded the program, and noticed that my ECM is not found in the list. Does that mean I can't use it, or...?
My ECM is 16197427 BJYK(don't know if that is of importance).
I'll see if I can find the parts for the cable around here, if not - I'll just have to order it from the US. BTW, where do you guys get the plug for the ALDL connector when you make these cables?
Hi again guys! I have been away on vacation and thus away from the boards and all for some weeks.
Dewey,
Thanks for digging out that info!!
MikeDirntRulez,
I have checked for vacuum leaks but have not found anything.
I now got WinALDL installed on my laptop and created a cable to hook it up to the car.
As this is something I have never done before - I'd appreciate some pointers on where/how to get started on the program, and what to look for (or post on here) to help finding the problem.
Awesome, thanks!
Now, when running the datalogger, should the car just be sitting idling, or should I drive it around? Also, how long should I run the datalogger? From cold until it is warm?
Im sorry for all the questions, but Im just all new to this and haven't found a lot of info on WinALDL for starters
we will get a lot more data when it is warmed, but it seems that cold idle is the most problematic, so I would get that, you might add in some info with you doinging some normal driving.
Just hooked up the computer to the ALDL for the first time, and I obviously cannot reach the ECM because I get nothing when selecting one or more of the choices in Datalogger and pressing Start.
I made this cable:
My ALDL connector looks like this and I connected the wires as indicated here:
yeah, start the car up, then disconnect B, leave A and M attached.
(this is just a guess. I have no experiance with your ECM, but on the TPI cars that use the 10k resistor, they have to disconnect it to actualy start use the data.)
You might also try it with only A and M hooked up, and completely ignor the 10k to B.
Tried both now - no luck
Also took the cable apart and checked that everything was according to the schema and that all components were still intact and OK. Everything seems fine.
This is not for the 305 in my Camaro, it is in my truck as mentioned in the initial post. However, sounds like you pointed out the problem with why WinALDL is not working then.. Thanks!!
Now, of course the next question is - what tool/cable do I need to scan this ECM?
Downloaded Tuner Pro and went outside to try, and I was not able to connect with the Tuner Pro and the 2-transistor cable either. Im starting to wonder if there could be a problem with the cable anyway. I have tested the components though and cannot seem to find anything wrong.
It says No Hardware detected and ALDL not Connected.
On the Tuner Pro I could not find anywhere to select the correct ECM like in WinALDL, does it figure that out itself?
Do any of you know for sure if Tuner Pro should work with my ECM?
Thanks again guys - I really appreciate your help!!
Got your email, thanks a lot!!
I'll have to check first thing in the morning - but I'll get back to you! Would have been fantastic if I could get it to work.
Used the ads file you sent me, but no luck. However, Im now suspecting something else to be the problem, because I tried hooking up to the Camaro as well to verify that I could connect to an ECM known by at least either WinALDL or TunerPro - but I could not! Are there any specific settings that needs to be done to the COM port? I will try loading the software on another newer laptop and see what happens.
You set it to com 1 in the preference in rt.
You can test the kable in preference.
I have the mastach kable and its working for me.
havent hade the 2resistor kable (made a 1 resistor kable to my 7747 C3ecm 90 lo5 eng worked with winaldl and rt 160 baud ecm).
I have an old dell lap top 300mgz and xp on it set the kable to
com 1 works for me.
I dont now enytinge about tpi think its a 8192 baud and you need a diffrent ads file
Did the test now and it says cable found and functional
I first used an old Dell 400Mhz laptop with XP, and now I have tried a newer Dell laptop with W2K - same result. Nothing. Is it possible that the Data connector is not on where I indicated "M" in the picture above?
When I tried against the Camaro, I used WinALDL and ECM type 1227165 which is what I have.
On the 1 trans. cable you use - do you use 12V from the cig. lighter?
If you look at the box you can se where the M is
but i have 94 engine ,trans and all the electric wiring fuse box
from a g20 van and the pin m is where you have it on the pictuer.
That is the way I have understood the 2-trans cable to work as well.
I have now given external 12V to the cable, but it is still the same.
What the is going on with this crap? Man, Im getting f****** frusterated now. I have less than two weeks to get this retarded moron car straight before my plates will be revoked if I cannot pass emissions....
Thanks for the links!
I think I'll try to make the mastach cable and see how that turns out. I just tried hooking up with Datamaster and I still cannot connect. When I tested the COM from there it said that the ALDL adaptor was ok but that it got an unexpected response and that the PCM may not be supported..
If I make the other cable and still cannot connect, I'd almost start suspecting that there is something wrong with the data connection between ALDL plug and the ECM or the ECM itself?
The link http://www.aldlcable.com/sc/pages.asp?id=24 is not the
mastach kable its a kable that you buy.
The link was about kabel the 2-trans with a 12v cig and it work for all obd1 car they say.has not the same schematic as you
at the same page you have with max 232 chip like the mastach kable a think.
why cant you connect to the camaro with the same kable and
winaldl its looks that it is the kable is wrong maybe you can detect the kable but the kable dont understand the datastream.
When i tested tts DM32*OD a hade a hard time get connected
with the mastach kable (sade the same to me i hade but in the
new built engine,trans and the electrik from 94 in the car. hade the ostrich as chip and dident want to ruin the new cam) it take
me a lot off twiking with it before it connected to ecm.
Oh, I see what you mean. I'll try to make the cable you linked to.
I have not tried to connect to the Camaro after I altered my cable to use an external 12V. That was for sure one of the problems, because my COM port gives out a -5V instead of +5V, so the that would never work.
I'll try the cable with the 12V from the cig. lighter in the Camaro tomorrow.
You mentioned you had a lot of trouble connecting to the tts - but what did you do to make it work? Just keep trying to connect, or did you change anything?
It was in file/rec aldldata/options/advanced(hade som trouble with zip dip for the emulator at the same time).
I hade the od file to rt but it dident work then and hade to have
the car ready thats why a hade tts. I found the trouble in the od ads and fix it works in my car with out trouble.
I start to belive it is the kable (if it not works on the camaro).
you have som 100k where the kable on the link has 10k and
some more staff that the link kabel dont have.where did you
finde it. the kable in the link is more like 1-trans kable i have with 2-trans instead off 1. mabye for c3ecm tpi i realy dont now
As adviced by Honken, I will today check if I can see any sputtering from the injectors, set the timing back to 0° and disconnect the battery to reset the ECM.