TBIThrottle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.
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I searched and didn't see a thread on this already. If there is please link me to it. I grabbed this from the DYI Prom board
[quote]Originally posted by Fast355
[b]I have run across two 1996 chevy vans with a vortec TBI 350 in them. I couldn't tell you how many are out there. Couldn't tell you if they were factory, but I have every belief they are. Nobody in their right mind does a head swap on a G-series with the engine in the van. These looked to be just stock work vans. They were the old body style ones that were made in 1996 alongside with the newer Express style.
Like the GMPP intake they both had an external EGR hookup, but unlike the GMPP part, the pipe ran from the driverside manifold to the passenger side of the engine under the distributer, to the EGR valve area. Next time I run across one I will try to remeber to take a picture.[quote]
I found that both Advance Auto Parts and Auto Zone list vin K motors in the '96 G30 vans, but list no availability for tell tail parts like intake manifolds/gaskets.
It would make sense, vortec heads work better for emissions and '96 was mandatory that everyone use tighter OBDII standards. I just don't understand why they wouldn't use the vin R Vortec motor in these vans as well. Would it be reasonable to cast a new intake and engineer a new calibration just to use up old TBI parts?
I'm just curious what injector, fuel pressure and programming GM used in these vans. It probably won't help in a performance application, but it is interesting. If you buy a "crate Vortec TBI" motor are you getting GM's TBI Vortec calibration to go with it?
Also, if you were really bucks down, our PickaPart charges $87 for any motor. Might be the cheapest way to find all the parts for a vortec swap with EGR.
I read in another thread that 92blue's Dad has a '96 TBI G30 van. Maybe he could check it out?
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I did a search on the injector and was not able to find its flow, not listed anywhere. I would imagine that it is around 75-80 lbs/hr. K simply denotes that it is a TBI motor, not the heads.
Swapping in the actual R- vortec would have been too much of a pain for a van you are getting rid of withing the year anyway. It is much more simple to just recast an intake manifold then use the truck style exhaust manifold on it. As far as which 96 vans, there is really no a pattern other than the latest production ones have the vortec. Really the 1996 classic style vans vs. the express are for the most part carry-overs from the 1995s. My guess is that GM dropped the TBI motor after 1995, therefore when they ran out of TBI motors, they switched to the vortec. The problem was changing the wiring, throttle cable, cruise control, A/C, Power steering, Intake, Exhaust, etc. The other choice is cast a new intake, slap it on, all the existing stuff bolts up, make a new injector with a different size opening, then engineer a new calibration. You now have a 235 FWHP 350 that makes 335 ft/lbs of torque. Why the power difference (the G-series no Express use a single catalytic covnerter vs the vortecs duals.
The programming has been discuessed in the DIY prom page. Maybe Jon will chime in with more info.
Here are the block, head, and injector numbers from the engine I stripped down for a valve cover gasket job. Didn't think to get the BCC on the ECM at the time as it was burried in the wall (conversion).
Block=10243880
Head=10239906
Injector=17112742
There was no mistaking that the head bolts went straight down into the intake and it was TBI. Autozone/Advance/Orilleys/Napa all list the 1996 old style van to have a TBI engine that has vortec heads.
I just find it interesting that when you do a parts look up on line, the '96 G30HD van has no listing for intake manifold gaskets or even a full gasket set. If the K motors were a direct carry over for the most part, seems like the parts listing from '95 would be the same. If you go to the store it does list them out as TBI Vortec motors?
I wonder if a crate motor in this configuration can be bought from GM, I didn't see it listed right off.
Not that it matters much I just find it interesting. In this day and age of mass produced everthing, odditys are rare.
If someone had access to a GM sevice manual, shouldn't it list the engine combos for that year and part numbers?
It may sound a little weird, but technically those 1996s should have been OBDII but they weren't. That is why you only saw the vortec TBI in vans that weighed over 8,500 lbs gvw. I am betting the GM shop manual would have all the part numbers ETC. When you go to the parts store, there will be a TBI gasket pack for them that is the same as the regular TBI, there will not be a complete gasket set for them. They use the standard L05 bottem end gaskets, not the vortec style, but use the vortec lower intake gasket, it then again changes to the TBI gasket. Confusing isn't it. GM dropped the E4ME Q-jet in 1987, think of the 1988 TBI L69 Monte Carlo SS(081 heads, L69 Cam, TBI intake, 350 injectors). That was an odd, one year only run. The carb wouldn't pass the emissions for the L69 for the 1988 model year.
Like I was saying, why change 90% of whats under the hood, when you can change the intake, injectors, driverside exhaust manifold, and the Prom Calibration and get the same thing accomplished.
Like I was saying in the Prom board, it is obvious that the GMPP intake was a recast van manifold due to the layout of some bolt holes. EGR location, etc.
That's pretty cool!
So do you think they used a L05 short block instead of the L31? The intake that you saw, was it cast aluminum or iron?
I asked our local PickaPart if they get '96 G30's in and he said they do. He's supposed to call me if they get one. For around 90 bucks with everything, its probably worth it. How hard are they to pull from a van?
I never knew that the 88 Monte SS was TBI.... Guess there are still oddities out there!!
It uses the L31 block, minus the timing cover, the heads were vortecs. The intake was like any other TBI intake I have seen, aluminum. Keep in mind not all 350 TBI vans were vortecs.
Pulling a Van engine is a ROYAL PITA. I have had mine out 3 times and the heads off twice. But it typically works out well in the end.
If you can get one for $100.00 that is great. IMO they are like a needle in a haystack. I have only seen two of them and work with them atleast once a week. I have seen one more in a local wrecking yard a while back but it was a Vortec 4.3 in the same 1996 G30(TBI and Straight down intake bolts).
I see. So even though when I ask for G30 5.7L heads at the parts store and all they show are vortec casting numbers, these vans were equiped with either L05's or TBI L31's......?
If these trucks aren't really OBDII, do they have memcals or proms?
I guess I'll just have to keep my eyes open!!!
Sometimes the thrill of the hunt is just as fun as the kill.
Originally posted by Fast355 GM dropped the E4ME Q-jet in 1987, think of the 1988 TBI L69 Monte Carlo SS(081 heads, L69 Cam, TBI intake, 350 injectors). That was an odd, one year only run. The carb wouldn't pass the emissions for the L69 for the 1988 model year.
Originally posted by 32V_DOHC 88 monte carlos are carbed. No V8 TBI in a monte.
John
I just put in a 350 in a 88 Monte Carlo SS and it was the CC carb, it did have 081 center bolt heads and one piece rear main seal crank and the basic GM dished pistons, didn't check the cam in it but it was not a roller. I like the G30 that would make a good drivetrain swap, engine computer wiring trans and all.
They were made with TBI, I have walked the yards around here for the past 5 years, nearly once a month. I have seen more than one, FACTORY TBI V8 Monte Carlo. 87 was the last year for the carbed V8 chevy. 88 was TBI, don't know about the caprice though. Lots more are computer carbed though.
No injected v8's of any sort in G-bodies(82-88, tech. thru 89)
The 4.3 was available TBI in Monte and El Camino.
Regal got the good injected engine :-)
Rest were all carbed, the 305, 307 and 231.
But on a real side note, I really am keeping an eye out for 96 vans now. Bet that would be the only TBI motor I would call almost fun from the factory.
Originally posted by Fast355 They were made with TBI, I have walked the yards around here for the past 5 years, nearly once a month. I have seen more than one, FACTORY TBI V8 Monte Carlo. 87 was the last year for the carbed V8 chevy. 88 was TBI, don't know about the caprice though. Lots more are computer carbed though.
I've been styaing out of this and staying out of this.... but I gotta tell you, I know a lot of Gbody guys here that run SS's and NONE of them every started with TBI. Always carbed LG4's or L69's... it's sickening to know you could get a car that said SS and had an LG4....
Anyways, back on point - no TBI's - sorry. Seriously, not playing devil's advocate or following the leader or anything. Just a fact.
But it typically works out well in the end.
