I know this type of post is overdone, but my need is different than a big HP number. I'm replacing my stock 350 TBI in my 95 p-up with a fresh 9.5:1 swirl port headed stock engine. Its my daily driver and weekend tow rig. Motor is setup to be a roller or flat tappet. Any decent cams out there that someone is running? I want smooth idle, power from 1500-3500, automatic with stock convertor, 4wd, must pass smog test. Rear gears are 3.73. Truck cruises at 2200 rpm @ 70mph. I can do my own chips but would rather not. Daily driver gets driven without much attention. I would run the old stock cam, but its over 225K miles old. GM stock replacement flat tappet is over $360, so I'd rather buy an aftermarket & maybe save a couple bucks and get a little more TQ for towing.

I have run cams with around 204/214 on stock 350 ECMs in 350s, and even one in a 305. They run Decent on a stock tune, but perform much better after chip tuning. The Federal Mogul CS1014R, Crane 2020 or 2030, and Mellings MTC1 all come to mind.

The PCM is also faster and seems to handle bigger cams better on the stock tune than an older ECM does.

I have also run both a factory 1992 Y-Body LT1 cam and vortec cam in an untuned TBI.

I would say that the vortec roller/swirl port combo is pretty darn impressive in the torque department.

Fast355,
You say that the pcm is faster on the 95 pickups.
So if I have a older truck pcm, should I get a 95 pcm?

Its not a direct swap for the older ECMs though.

In my experience the PCMs, WILL handle a cam change and some basic mods, better. They have the fueling setup differently and seem to be more adaptible. Then when you go to tune them, the Baud rate is much faster, so datalogging does not take nearly as long.

If you have an older TBI truck (pre 1993), hold out for Rbob's EBL, it is a step above the PCM. Just it doesn't control an electronic transmission (4L60E or 4L80E).

Fast355, any opinions about this GM grind, its used in the ramjet 350 and HT383. Duration @.050 196/206 lift w/ 1.5rocker 431/451 LSA 109. These are selling for $69.95 as new take outs. Seems like a smaller cam duration wise. Do you think the stock TBI will like it?

I know of several guys running V8 Astros and Safari's that run that cam. They call it the torque monster. It will run OK with the stock tune, but it needs about 14 psi fuel pressure and a couple more degrees on the base timing.

I have a 95 tbi truck and ts a c3 ecu. it is a 16196396 so its the sucky baud rate. maybe b/c its a manual. i'd like to sawp to a p4 but cant figure out which to swap too.
anyways take it for whats its worth

Fast355, thanks, I'm gonna get the HT383 cam and give it a go. Any decent afpr to use with TBI?

I run one made by Extreme EFI on Ebay. They are cheap, are adjustable from outside the throttle body, and can be plumbed to be a VAFPR.

Fast355, do you have any links? Can't find them on ebay.

http://stores.ebay.com/Xtremefi

I found that the 204/214 didnt run well at all in my car without tuning. I originally had the '929 cam in my motor and it ran very well on the stock tune. Summit has something similar, P/N SUM-1101.

I have 94 chevy pu 5spd .upgraded to vortec heads ,ram-jet 350 cam,power pro alum intake,everything else stock (TBI w/adapter)and havin hard time tryin to tune.Cant find any files on it.need help!!(
16196396 ECU BDTP chip

I couldn't get the ram jet cam to work with 3.480 stroke cranks in two applications. The O2 sensor would indicate lean when it was actually already rich due to the extra oxygen from the overlap, then the ecm would just keep dumping more fuel. I just couldn't get it to work. I swapped in a stock Vortec 350 cam from NAPA into both engines and tuning was a breeze. The ram jet cam works good with 3.750 stroke cranks. This is just what worked for me. I know swapping cams suck and the ram jet cam is only like $69.00 as a new take out but I don't think you'll be happy with it. The Vortec cam runs strong.

I 'm to get one of those cams tuned.Havin no luck.ramjet 350 and HT383. Duration @.050 196/206 lift w/ 1.5rocker 431/451 LSA 109..Wonderin what fast355 did to make these run right?I've got adv distrib to about 15+ to get it from poppin bak thru cab.whats the secrets?

The Ramjet or HT383 cam was first known as the "Marine" cam. GM put it in thousands of 305 and 350 boat engines. Water log manifolds do not tolerate much overlap therefore very little overlap exist in this cam. If you think you are having problems with the 02 due to overlap, think again. The 02 sensor could possibly have been poisoned by silicon though. Also check for exhaust leaks and if you have headers, make sure that you are running a 3 wire heated 02 sensor.

Popping back through the TBI is usually a result of being too lean. I would make sure you are running at-least 12 psi (I've seen stock engines as low as 9.5) and closer to 14 would be better.

The Ramjet spark table is posted in a thread on the DIY Prom board.

The 396 ecm has been hacked and there is a copy of the hack on the Moates.net file section.

stock exhaust.u mean an exhaust leak after the 02 sensor ,say in muffler?
dont how much fuel pressure I have.

Ok.I think I found whats wrong but dont know how to fix it.has a high presssure fuel pump,run a wide band ,recieving fuel.problem-I can disconnect spark from dizzy and set timing ,reconnect and it don't advance none,even with higher RPM.Timing light reads all about the same all the time.I guess thats why I have to advance timing so much by the dizzy to get it to run ,but still not right.So, ecm not puttin info to dizzy to telll it to advance.tried different bins,dont fix so I beleive its not software problem ,but hardware.Can u give me any help about spark control?

'rrex

How much total advance are you seeing while engine is running??? Do you see SES turn on as well??? It is possible that you might be in fail safe or limp mode depending on what SES is doing..

//RF

never could find 396 ECU hack at moates.Still havin problems tunin.
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ses blinks real fast.

A fast flashing SES is a checksum error on the PROM. The ECM will be in limp mode. Which explains the lack of advance. If I am correct you have an EBL system. With that you need to use one of the calibrations that came with it.

If you don't have an EBL, then the PROM you use needs to be for the particular ECM. Can't swap them between say a '7747 and a '8746 ECM.

RBob.

RBob a question for you on the checksum. As you may recall I use a Prominator Pro(binswitcher) with EBL. I placed the ECU in it factory location this spring and dealt with the excess cable by wrapping it around the ECU case and then taping wil electrical tape. I did not put 2+2 together and stated having .bin failures as you described above. Rapid flashing CE upon loading a new bin or during a cruise almost daily. Also occuring was a failure of the EBL datalog with interruption. I pulled the ECU to verify connections and all seemed OK. At that point ECU is back on floor of car and issues seemed to cease. The EBL logs were no longer interrupted. However I still get 1 of 20 attermpts a "checksum error" shown on Prominator software (red message)during download and sometimes shortly after successful(?)bin download(CE bink-on confirmed) or shortly afterward while driving I see the faint rapid flicker of CE. I start over with fresh download of same bin and usually it is successful. I am wondering if it is radio interference? Or is fact I still have the Prominator ribbion cable shortened by folding it upon itself and securing with elec tape? Years back I recall a problem with Romulator in that one needed to shield cable with aluminum foil. What do you think my infrequent failures could be?

Rbob-yes, I have EBL and moates prom burner .with the ebl I tried the files with it for 90 mod 5.7,man.trans and the 94-95 pu man.trans.The ses was not on.I set dizzy at 12deg and initial spark to 12deg.and advanced the spark table 30deg across the board.It runs its best there ,but still not right for lowend load.read above to see my specs on motor.any help.

Ronny, I would check the grounds betwen the ECM and engine block. The ECM case is grounded via the internal bracing and case work. So it doesn't need a separate gound (which isn't a good idea anyway).

The faint flashing SES points to having a bad ground. The ECM pulls the SES output low (to ground) to turn on the light.

RBob.

The cam listed above is on the mild side. I don't believe that is where the issue is. With the way you are setting up the distributor base timing and the timing tables it appears that something else is wrong.

The base timing is used during cranking. Once the engine is running the ECM takes over timing. With this the base setting is used to get the engine to crank & start properly both cold & hot.

With the EBL, do a key-on, engine-off while watching the SES light. Can repeat the test after 10 seconds of key-off.

The SES will turn on briefly, blink off, then turn on solid. This test is important as it verifies that the ECM is running from the Flash and not in limp mode.

If the SES blink does not occur then that is the first item to fix. It isn't even worth starting the engine until it is proved to be running from the ECM software.

Put a timing light on #1 and warm up the engine. Disconnect the BYPASS and check the timing. Verify that it is at 12 BTDC. Turn off the engine, and reconnect the BYPASS. Start engine and check the timing.

Verify that the damper timing mark (TDC mark) has moved toward the passenger side of the vehicle. If the light can be dialed back verify the timing matches the timing displayed on the WUD.

If they match, good, if not then this needs to be corrected. If not matching, what distributor is being used and what did the timing do? Did it move from 12 BTDC or stay there?

Once this all works then the fueling can be worked on.

RBob.

Rbob,yes the ses light blinks then stays on till I crank it.I check timing with 2 different lights ,one with dail adjuster and one old fashon one.They seemed to be within 1 or 2 deg of each other.I can turn on the key ,the wud goes to sa 12deg.I can crank it up and wud goes to 18-21deg (boucin around),then check with the light on damper and its on 12deg.Rev it up a little and it jumps(advances).but at idle its about 12deg and wud reads 18-21deg.The dizzy is stock.and I did check to make sure its grounded good.
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and I did unplug the bypass and then plug it bak in,dont seem to make a difference.

OK, then there is something wrong in either the distributor, wiring to the ECM, or ECM. Once the engine is running does the SES light stay on? Or does it turn off? It should turn off.

If it does stay on then it is probably code 42 (can use the WUD malfunction box to display the codes). Note that the last malf display column is for codes that are set in ECM memory. Just opening the BYPASS and setting the timing will light that column for code 42. The center column means the SES is on. First column is that the test is failing.

If the SES turns off once the engine is running then the handshaking between the ECM and distributor should be OK.

If the SES is on then check the BYPASS signal to the distributor. Open the BYPASS connector, and measure the voltage from the connector end that goes to the ECM and ground. Should be close to 5 volts with the engine running (I just measured it at 4.75 volts).

If that is present then I would say the distributor ignition module is bad. With the timing sitting at 12 BTDC and not moving with the ECM, the ignition module is in a limp mode. Which when the BYPASS goes high should not be in limp mode.


Some notes:

The sudden advancement you are seeing is part of the modules limp mode. It adds this timing when the ECM is not in control of the spark timing.

The bouncing around of the SA on the WUD display is from idle stabilization. When in idle the SA is used to help steady the idle and prevent a rolling idle speed. This can be changed in the calibration.

One last note {edited in}, once the BYPASS has been opened the ECM needs to be keyed-off for a least ten seconds. Bascially, turn off the engine, reconnect the BYPASS, then re-start it. When the BYPASS is re-connected with the engine running the ECM leaves the timing locked out. Need to key-off the ECM for more then 5 seconds before it will take over spark timing again.

RBob.

Rbob,the ses is off when engine running.I checked the bypass with meter and it goes crazy.on the wud the malf light blinkin IAT Low.

I soldered the EBL on a1227747 Ecu,but my factory ecu is 16196396.wonderin if all wires on the plug is the same?this pu was a dog before I put this motor in it wonderin if this advance problem was it all along.

ok, I wound up not unplugin the bypass(wrong plug).trace out wire from ecu and cut and made bypass (brown w/blk)never could find the factory bypass.It does read aprox 4.69 + volts.Set the timing right now(say whatfast355 says 6deg both dizzy and ecu).plug bak in and reads about the same as wup display.now what do I do? I've foun that the ebl file 0008 with say 15xtra deg acroos the board works best.

If you are not using an IAT, then you need to disable its function.

Where,my first tune.[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/ADMINI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-3.jpg[/IMG]there are five
SA - IAT/CTS Comp Bias SA
Malf Flags - 12 thru 24 - Bit 1 - IAT23-unset
Malf Flags - 25 thru 42 - Bit 7 - IAT25-unset
SA - IAT/CTS Compensation
IAT/CTS - Blend Filter

ok, now i know im raising this thread from the grave, but its the first one that google turns up when you search for "no tune tbi cam". that being the case, i wanted to put the info i get in here so anyone else with the question can find it. yes, i have done several searches on TGO, and have found conflicting info. so, i wanted to see if i can find someone that has tried what im asking.

anyway, i am looking at sticking a edlebrock performer plus cam in my truck (1989 k1500 4x4, 9.5:1 CR, swirlies, stock fuel system) as a replacement for the stocker, just looking to wake the truck up a bit and maybe get a little better mileage. not looking for huge numbers, just somthing to help pull the toys up the hills. Stock TBI cam is .050" tappet lift (intake/exhaust) is 179/194; and maximum lift with 1.5:1 rocker ratio (intake/exhaust) is .350/.384, and the edlebrock is as listed below.

Edelbrock 3702

Duration @ .050''194° Intake/214° Exhaust
Lift @ Valve.398'' Intake/.442'' Exhaust
Lift @ Cam.265'' Intake/.294'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle112°
Intake Centerline107°
Intake Timing @ .050" Open 10° ATDC
Close 24° ABDC
Exhaust Timing @ .050" Open 44° BBDC
Close 10° BTDC

now, my question is, has anyone run a cam simular to this, and if so, how did it run? mileage? what is your altitude? ive heard these can run rich, what about backing off the regulator pressure a bit or is the problem in the algorithim in the computer? how is the longevity of this cam? what kind of gains can i expect without the tune? and what is any other relevant info you might have?

i DO plan on tuning this truck next summer when i have a little time and money for the prom burner and chips. i will be installing a wide band o2, and will be datalogging as i drive throughout the winter and be playing with spark and fuel tables on my laptop.

so, the most important question: would it be worth it to put this cam in my daily driver or should i stick in a stock bumpstick untill i can tune? im rebuilding and need to buy a new one anyway, so i figured why not do it now, but i dont want to shoot myself in the foot.