TBIThrottle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.
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i know its not a l03 anymome but it was when i bought it.
the car bogs out of the hole for some reason but it kills above 1700rpm.
jptaylor
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1989 formula
jasper 350 (punched to 397ci)
trick flow twisted wedge heads
jacobs omni magnum ignition
isky cam
flowtech jethot coated headers
mufflex 4" mandrel stainless exhaust
no cat
holley 670
open element
custom fixed headlights
97 formula interior
macewen white faced gauges
3.42 posi rear end
baer racing 4 piston calipers front and rear
underdrive pullies
hard wired cooling fans
in the immortal words of Homer J. Simpson
DOH!!!
[This message has been edited by jptaylor2 (edited November 22, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by jptaylor2 (edited November 22, 2000).]
Best 60' is a 1.98.
Stock stall is killing me.
But I'm done with the car. It's time to move on. I see that a lot of you have had good results with heads, cam, and intake, so I'll try to find someone to buy mine who wants to do this to a car already running mid 14's.
I figure with a 2800 stall and shift kit it should hit 13's consistantly
And for those that wanted the pics, you'll have them soon.
Yea, that's a LO3 in a Datsun. It's set up to make the turns so I don't hook up to well off the line. Lot's of fun tho!
Thanks to all for all the great TBI info I get here. Jeff
Originally posted by NJ SPEEDER: i want to try to get a handle on where i stand among you guys as far as power and et's with your LO series motors. let me hear your best times or dyno pulls and engine mods. you can see what all i have in my sig below currently i run 14.390 @ 94.99mph on a stock cam. it works out to about 225hp at the wheels mathematically.
lata
tim
How about a Cross Fire?.
Ran a host of 13.7s on a 355 84 Bird.
Used a 1227747 ecm.
The short list of things unchanged would be the window glasses, front cross member, and headlight doors and motors.
Had her down to 3020 with spare tools and 1/4 tank of gas.
That was on TAs, big sway bars attched, and leaving from idle, no power braking, unlike most folks I use test and tune just for tuning MPH. I like cornering N cruisin..
Pablo, thanks! I totally agree with you about the ECM. I'm moving to a '7747 in the spring and will begin programing my own chips. This marks the beginning of a new frontier for me.
91BIRD305, my 400 is HARDLY "tapped out". It is a junkyard, smogger, late '70s long block, with 7.8:1 compression, that also burns oil. At the beginning of this past summer, my car had a stock 350 + headers and exhuast and it ran 14.5 @ 95. I have spent LESS than $800 bucks and I'm running 13.5 @ 102. Not a bad bang for the buck eh? I think there are plenty of people here that can relate to this economic, but effective path.
I am getting serious this winter. I'm rebuilding the 400 with 6" rods, hypereutectic 10.5 :1 pistons, and AFR 190 aluminum heads. I will be expecting high 12's on street tires.
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'83 Trans Am. 400 CID, 224/234 crane cam, Summit aluminum roller rockers, hand ported intake, home bored 2.09" (53mm) throttle bodies, MSD 454 injectors(75 lb/hr), Holley 255LPH fuel pump, custum modded FPR w/Vacuum port added, Edelbrock TES headers, empty cat, SLP 3" stainless steel cat back, stock ECM & chip. Borg/Warner T-5 World Class, 12" Corvette rotors and clipers, GTA 16" wheels, South Side Machine subframe connectors, 1LE sway bars, 3.45 ring and pinion, Alpine sound.
Best E.T. 13.532
Best MPH 102.24
[This message has been edited by Tom 400 CFI (edited November 23, 2000).]
nice times grumpy. i forgot to post my latest improvements here. check the sig for the new best time. the mph went down because of the world infamous englishtown fall head wind. ya get past the bleachers at about 1000' and it feels like the car hit a damn wall. i was .55 mph up on my old best numbers at the 660' mark and .6 under at the end of the track.
lata
tim
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91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.301 @ 94.39mph
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall), 36mm Front 25mm Rear Sway Bars, Eibach Pro Kit Springs, Bilstein Shocks and Struts, Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings, Baer Track Kit Front Brakes W/ Baer Disc Rears, 17x9 4th Gen SS Wheels, Ported TB, 350 Injectors, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers
Oh I see, man Tom, your 400 is going to be a monster after the winter.
Hey Pablo, someone reminded me that you went to the track one time with Jester, seems like I remember that too. You guys had pictures and stuff. I thought u said u never went to the track?? Whats up with that?
Definately Tom, the 7747 is the way to go. Ive heard some about those older crossfire ecms being total junk. I was running a 746 and went to the 7747 too, lots to play with, and definately nice times considering what little you have done and how little you spent (i can relate)
My 305 shortblock is original. With ported 1988 305 heads, it's done a best of 14.039 at 100.82 MPH on Nov 7th in Stanton, Michigan at the CamaroZ28.com's M5 event.
It's an L69 block so that isn't really fair to compare it to an L03 I suppose. Still, I thought some of you might be interested in my latest picture: A cold-air induction for Formulas that works. I made it in about an hour for thirty bucks. Like it?
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Daniel Burk
http://www.isthq.com/~dan/fcar.html
'84 Trans Am WS6/L69
KB SFC, Moser axles, Torsen Diff. PST suspension, Braided stainless brake lines, Koni struts, 11-inch rear disks,Spohn Adj. torque arm,
Ported 305 heads w/1.94"intake valves, Comp Cams XE262H, Griffen alum. radiator,
Turbine Technologies 2500 stall converter, underdrive pulleys, Crane Hi-6 & more.
1.05g skidpad verified.
New best E/T! 14.039 at 100.82 MPH in 41 degree air at Stanton, Michigan.
1989 RS LO3
14.45 @ 94mph
Mods: Holley 670 cfm TB, Hypertech chip, Hedman shorties w/ Y-pipe, 3" custom exhaust with Dynomax Race bullet muffler, Dynomax Hi Flow cat, K&N filter and velosity cone, 160 degree thermostat. Stock 700r4 w/ 3.42 gears. This has always been a "quick" car. I bought the car about a year from the original owner (I remember when she bought the car new) completly stock and unmodified the car went 15.69 @ 89 mph. That is faster than any stock TBI 305 that I've ever heard of, but maybe I just got a good one! This car is a daily driver that has only seen the track 3 times to accurately judge the effects of the mods ( I race my 82 Z28 regularly).
We Camaro owners think our cars are so great but did you ever go to stangnet.com?Dude, like the slowest stang on there is faster than the fastest camaro on here,so instead of aiming for "quick" 14 and 15 second times , I'll aim for 12 and 13 so I can actually give those stangs a kick in the nuts.
Ok, lets think about this one, we're comparing L03 times when some engines have been heavily modified so that they can almost NOT be considered L03's but simply modded 305 blocks and a TBI sitting on top.
What defines an L03? Poor cam, heads, piston heads, restrictive intake and exhaust, poor power curved ECM.... but alot of the mods that guys are performing solve these problems, sometimes the only thing left that defines the L03 is the cam since its such a big job.
So what are we really comparing? A thread like this is really pointless unless you have something like what Jon (JPrevost) did and organize all the mods and ETs in a chart, then we can see what mods can really do to your ETs.
------------------ '91 Firebird
305/TBI(L03)/700R4/T-tops
Mods: Catco high flow cat - B&M Shift kit - TA tail light conversion - K&N - White faced guages on the way
Stereo: Pioneer DEH-P8200R - Pioneer 6x9's - Kenwood 8" Tube
actually the original poin tof this thread was very much fulfilled. the idea when i pu tit up was to see what other people had successes with. an lo3 to me is a 305 with a gm tb on it. modded or not that still leaves it as basically what it started as to me. that is also what makes it the big challenge to me, since most of us are still fighting a factory tb casting and a cam so small that you need a microscope to measure the lobes.
this thread isn't anything but a place for ideas to spread, i have gotten several new ideas for my car in here. the ideas i get from this board about performance are what convinced me that 13.70's can be gotten from the stock cam with the right plan.
lata
tim
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91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.301 @ 94.39mph
The stock cam will go 13's!!!!!!!!!!!
The car is going street strip for next season. 13's here i come!!!!!
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall),Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings,Ported TB, 350 Injectors, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers
well, its good to know that it isnt a total loss of text and bytes. I know everything is supposed to be non-tech, but as long as its creative, and still relating to the mechanical functioning of our engines, its tech, so though some may be worded non tech, it looks like most of it is still in a general relation to the function and modification of our cars.
underdog, what kind of 60's are you getting?
you could prolly get 14's with a posi and some gear. like 3.73's would prolly do it up nice.
lata
tim
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91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.301 @ 94.39mph
The stock cam will go 13's!!!!!!!!!!!
The car is going street strip for next season. 13's here i come!!!!!
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall),Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings,Ported TB, 350 Injectors, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers
Tim,what gear are you running? I have basically the same setup as RS, but i have no cat and I don't have headers yet. i haven't ran it on the clock, but it feels pretty strong. I have 245/50ZR16 GSC's on 87 Iroc wheels and it will not get any grip at all. I have 3.42's.
i have 3.54 gears right now, but i blew up my carrier the last day of the season. i am planning to step up to 4.10's. i chose that gear because i am planning to step up to a taller tire when i change cams after proving the stocker can go 13.7. for anyone planning to run a "normal" sized street tire(something 26"'s tall or less) i would only suggest going with a 3.73 gear. but for the 28" tall tires i am putting on next the 4.10's are more appropriate.
lata
tim
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91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.301 @ 94.39mph
The car is going street strip for next season. 13's here i come!!!!!
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall),Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings,Ported TB, 350 Injectors, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers
http://www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299
Is that B&M converter you a lock-up? I'm thinking of doing that I change cam and heads, How much does one for a 700 cost. i have a 2400, and a 3000 for a TH350, but I know they won't work.
I checked out your page,Tim, Sweet ride.
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82 Z28 350, Ported #882 Heads, Performer RPM cam and intake, hedman headers,650 Demon carb,
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Future plans: Dart headed, Roller cammed 383 in early '01
my convertor is a lock-up unit. the lower stall (1900-2600rpm) only cost in the $240-250 range, the bigger convertors (2700-3200rpm) cost as much as $450 for an off the shelf type unit. lucky for us the 700 has a nice first gear(3.06) so you don't need to run a lot of convertor unless you have a giant cam.
i will be ordering a 2400stall b&m tork master when i put in my rebuilt tranny w/ a manual valve body.
lata
tim
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91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.301 @ 94.39mph
The car is going street strip for next season. 13's here i come!!!!!
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall),Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings,Ported TB, 350 Injectors, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers http://www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299
i'll hafta see about that. there is a local guy interested in it too. it will be coming out in mid january, i'll keep ya posted. if ya don't hear anything just remind me.
lata
tim
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91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.301 @ 94.39mph
The car is going street strip for next season. 13's here i come!!!!!
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall),Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings,Ported TB, 350 Injectors, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers http://www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299
I was looking for pablo's 1/4mile MPH and came across this thread. Its a great one for newbies. check it out.
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-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6
305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....
Soon to be installed:
Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248), Catco 3" cat, and injector spacer.
Wow, this is an old topic. Well I might as well update mine.
15.4 @93mph Sad for how much money I put into it but there are some things I have that are holding me back that I need to install that are sitting around. Like my AFPR and my LCA's. That would help me out a sh*t load from what I read in GMHTP when they ran one of these cars and when they did the exaust they found out they needed more fuel.
There happens to be TBIs that run 15.7s and such. It usually is at close to sea level, plus there is a difference when there is a difference in barometric pressure. I know my car ran a 15.76 @ 86 mph bone stock, but I am presuming all the cards stacked up right for my car out of the factory. Yes, the factory was known to put better parts in some engines, so keep in mind some GM cars feel different than others. Plus, I also have a better suspension than some of these cars, that might have something to do with it. O-60 ft. was 2.21. Oh yeah, didn't Motor Trend do a 1/4 time for the RS 5-speed, I think it was 15.86...
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Trans Go Kit
Walker 3in Cat-Back (Gutted Cat)
Hypertech Chip
Cowl Induction Hood
Under Drive Pulleys
Open Element Air Filter
1/2 In TBI Spacer and
TBI Injector Spacer
Best E/T 15.442 @ 85.43
Someone brought this old thread back to life, I see. When it was originally posted, I hadn't ran my car on the clock, but I was able to get a 14.91 @ 92 in Feb. of this year. I took it back about 3 weeks ago (actually, the misses drove it to track one of the times I took my 82) and I was only able to pull a 15.21 @ 90 w/ traction problems and running in the extreme humid summer heat.
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82 Z28 383, Ported 215cc Dart Iron Eagle Heads 72 cc Comb. Chambers, Comp custom grind Hyd roller cam, Speed Pro .250" domes, Wheeler Motorsports 4340 I beam rods, Eagle 5140 steel crank, Weiand Team G intake, Holley 830 DP, hedman headers
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Best ET:11.60 @ 114.56, w/ a 7.34 1/8 @ 93.50, and a 1.622 60'
Well, as of right now my best is 16.40 at 80.40, but I yet to go to the track with the new rear in (and the K&N which gave me 15 HP LOL). Hopefully low 16's. MY best 60' is 2.21x, which Im pretty happy with. Somehow I pulled a 84 mph trap one time, which made no sense to me. Bone stock with 112k miles it went a best of 16.5.
Just out of curiousity, do you guys just put it in drive and mash it, or should I do a 1-2 shift at about 4500 because it wont shift until 5k, and it dies about 4k-4250...
Last thing, it seems like the recepie for 14's is full exhaust, 3.42 or lower gears, open element, pullys, and chip?
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Chuck Kulchar
1991 RS
Open Element w/K&N
3.42 posi disc
[This message has been edited by Chuck! (edited July 09, 2001).]
my best e/t so far was a 14.9@94mph. Damn what are your 60' times? Cause my 60' time is 2.4 thats the best I got so far.
My mods:
Small port job on heads, small port job on TB, headers, stock exhaust pipping, thermal R&D muffler, L98 cam, IROC rear end w/3.27gears w/posi.
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Chris
91 RS 305 TBI
Eternal Rev
my times have improved a bit since this thread originally started. they are in my sig. i am hoping to get the hot rod back together and to the track this weekend with several key improvements, so stay tuned. i will likely just start a new threead if i run any new best times.
lata
tim
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91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.209@95.46mph
Best 60' 1.917
Check Out The East Coast F-Body Nationals Home Page www.geocities.com/njspeeder
I just have one thing to say.... the lo3 motor does suck..but i find it a challenge to make it faster... you all must admit the lo3 is a much harder engine to make faster than a mustangs engine..that's what makes us different..the fact that we can improve on a really crappy motor ... try getting a ford guy to soup up the lo3..they wont know what the hell to do.. so for ..personally i think my mods may bring my car into the 13 or even (if im lucky ) into really high 12's .
1991 CAMARO RS.
MODS : LO3 MOTOR
TURBO CITY TB , EDELBROCK INTAKE , EDELBROCK HEADERS , HIGH FLOW CAT, FLOWMASTER TWO CHAMBER EXHUAST, THERMOMASTER CHIP WITH 160 STAT AND TEMP SWITCH , KN FILTER , MSD 6A , ACCELL 8.8 WIRES , PORTED POLISHED HEADS, 373 POSI REAR , 255 45 16 TIRES IN REAR , HOLLEY MODULE , MSD CAP AND ROTOR , MSD BLASTER COIL, TIMING SET AT 20 BTDC(BELIEVE IT OR NOT), MELLINGS TIMING CHAIN AND GEARS , ALUMINUM DRIVESHAFT , 3 INCH FIBERGLASS HOOD , URETHANE PAINT JOB WITH THREE COATS OF CLEAR COAT!!! (NICE TEAL COLOR)... AND THE BEST FOR LAST .... NITROUS WORKS WITH A 125 HP SHOT .... ONE OF THE FASTEST TBI'S ??? COULD BE....AND GUESS WHAT..I NEVER TOOK IT TO THE TRACK HEEHEEHEHEHEEE...I JUST MIGHT ONE DAY. IM THINKING LOW 13'S OR EVEN 12 WITH THE BOTTLE..ALL FROM THE CRAPPY LO3...THINK WHAT I CAN DO TO A 350 ????
nope when i put the nitrous in i retard the timing 10 degrees and put in octane booster with 94 octane gas...i obvously need all that because nitrous burns quick so i need to slow it down by using slower burning fuel (higher octane) and by moving the spark closer to top dead center on the compression stroke ...did you learn a few things yet???
Guys low 14's is as fast as My 1994 LT1 with 2.73s.
When I had 3.42 in my RS it would stay with or beat my Formula
But not now that i have mods on the Formula.
13.5o's in the 1/4 mile now.
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90RS 305TBI\5-speed
Fastchip
Open Air Cleaner
1.5 Roller Rockers
Lakewood LCA & Panhard,10 Bolt Posi-Disk Rearend 2.73
KYB all around
Energy Supension front end kit
36/24 Sway bars
Dual Fans
In the works-
LT-1 Cam
1994 Formula
Custom PCM
LCA's
Panhard Bar
Posi 3.42
Ported MAF
K&N air
