TBIThrottle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.
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i want to try to get a handle on where i stand among you guys as far as power and et's with your LO series motors. let me hear your best times or dyno pulls and engine mods. you can see what all i have in my sig below currently i run 14.390 @ 94.99mph on a stock cam. it works out to about 225hp at the wheels mathematically.
lata
tim
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91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.390 @ 94.99mph
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall), 36mm Front 25mm Rear Sway Bars, Eibach Pro Kit Springs, Bilstein Shocks and Struts, Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings, Baer Track Kit Front Brakes W/ Baer Disc Rears, 17x9 4th Gen SS Wheels, Ported TB, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers
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Thats an awesome time man. Congrats. I want to get my LO3 timed next spring when I get the speedo calibrated. (gears and tires threw it off). Mine won't be as good as yours but I am hoping to break into very high 14's.
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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
I just ran 15.7 at 90 last weekend with a 1/2 tank of gas so I think it will go 15.5 with less gas. It has headers, 3" all the way out manderal bent with no cat and a crossflow flowmaster, pullies, open element, ultimate tbi, and 4* timing. It as a wc t-5 and 3.08 posi, it weighs 3540 with me and a full tank of gas.
hey Zac, if you got some higher gears like 3:42's or 3:73's I bet you would be REAL close to breaking into 14's. That is my goal, breaking into 14's w/o getting to deep into the engine like heads,cam intake, stuff like that.
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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
guys keep in mind that everyones car is different. GM didnt make these cars all the same.
91bird there should be no reason u wouldnt hit a high 14 second pass. I mean these cars came stock runnin high 15s (auto) so with ur mods i would say atleast a full second in the 1/4. I know the 5 spd cars ran mid to lower 15s. the 305 tpi 5 spd cars ran like a 14.8 and the L98's ran mid to lower 14s. Sorry i didnt mean to list everything but i just wanted to share what i have learned off this board.
91bird,
The next thing I'm planing on doing is 3.73's and slp takeoff posi. since I have an extra rear end laying around I won't have any down time. Then comes 670 and intake and lastly 125 shot before I drop the ZZ3 in. My goal is the same 14's on mostly stock LO3. And 305 Tbi 5-speeds ran mid to low 16's stock, not to start and argument that is what my car ran with just pullies and a k&n ,not open element,(16.6 at 82 to 16.1 at 84)
[This message has been edited by Zac's92 (edited October 31, 2000).]
LMAO mid 16s on a stock L03 5 spd. Remember just couse ur car ran mid 16s dont mean thats the baseline for all 5 spd tbis. I heard of guys running mid 15s with a 5 spd tbi. Hell i have heard of the V6 f bods running close to that so if ur 5 spd V8 is makeing compareable times to the V6 3rd gens than ur car has problems. BTW do u know what a fried clutch will do to ur ET's?
Hey ONEFINE8T9. Actually, the LO3 runs a mid to low 16 in the 1/4 stock. And from what I have seen, most stock 3rdgen 350's ran 15.0-15.3 No Joke. I think there is a magazine article on here somewhere about it. I will go look.
------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
jeez, looks like the blowers help a lot
i am trying to get my stock cam into the 13's with no power adder. the new tranny, slightly bigger convertor, and 4.10 gears that i am doing over the winter should make it EZ.
lata
tim
------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.390 @ 94.99mph
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall), 36mm Front 25mm Rear Sway Bars, Eibach Pro Kit Springs, Bilstein Shocks and Struts, Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings, Baer Track Kit Front Brakes W/ Baer Disc Rears, 17x9 4th Gen SS Wheels, Ported TB, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers
But chevy claims it got it into 14.8 here. So who knows. My guess is I guess 14.8-15.3 in the 1/4 mile. Kinda wide but thats what I could find. Anyone own a stock L98 or know someone that ran it?
Open Element
3/4" spacer
Gutted AIR
Gutted Cat
edelbrock cat back
255 50 16 tires
homeade cool air induction
removed rear hood seal
Hose clamps around my tranny mount to limit travel
Removed ridges from TBI
Inector spacer
Centerforce clutch
Hurst shifter
open 3.08 rear
I think that's it.
My best run is a 15.7 @ 93.2mph.
mods: Edelbrock headers, 3in exhaust to hooker aerochamber muffler, no cat, edelbrock tbi intake, open element, hypertech chip, 160'. stock 700r4, stock 2.73 gears--stock I ran 16.25 @ 87.5mph
Do my times seem right to you guys??? I am thinking that with my trap speed, my et would be lower. What do you guys/gals think??
Hmm, not sure. If I knew how much a difference gears made I could tell ya. But with your mods, seems like u should be deeper into 15's. WAY deeper. I could be wrong though
------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
NJ Speeder - it seems that the chip has helped you a lot. Was it your best mod? I also live in Trenton, NJ but go to school in chicago right now. Which part of Trenton are you from? (I used to go to Lawrence High)
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Mods:Hooker Aerochamber 3" exhaust, gutted kitty,
March 2 piece underdrive pullies, smog pump gone,;these two made a very noticable difference.
14x4 K&N open air element filter-the best mod so far
Eibach springs with KYB's all around.
Appearance: Harwood cowl hood, Z-28 wing, painted black(7/20/00)-original color was light blue
*All these mods were made this year
Stock Options:117,000 miles on motor, 5spd, TBI, 305, T-tops
Run a best of 16.7 @85mph with traction problem. Have to try again sometime.
5-speed tbi's run low 16's. I seen many stock and slightly modified lo3's run low 16's, 170hp and 255 ft-lbs won't push you much farther. With an open element I ran 15.9 at 84 it felt like a big differance, because the intake and exaust are both very restrictive. And no the clutch wasn't slipping, do you know how to change a clutch or anything else for that matter. Please don't tell us what you've "heard of" go and find out for your self. Have you ever run your car at a strip?
Don't laugh, but my very first run ever was a 15.8 @89 MPH. Sad isn't it? I ran a 13.92 my last run with a 3.42 worn posi rear, that was before a new posi and 3.73's, and my next run will be next year with a good clutch. You can't count my times though, I don't even have a L03, but I do have TBI.
------------------ 1992 RS
327, Modded TBI, Rebuilt WC T-5 5-speed, PRO 4 15" rims, Nitto's, 3.73's, SLP 1 5/8" headers, and a few other things.
5-speed tbi's run low 16's. I seen many stock and slightly modified lo3's run low 16's, 170hp and 255 ft-lbs won't push you much farther. With an open element I ran 15.9 at 84 it felt like a big differance, because the intake and exaust are both very restrictive.
well reguardless of what u say i have heard of them running 15s stock. Do u think i come online to mane the tbi out to be all big and bad?? I thought the autos ran 16s in the 1/4.....that doesnt make sence to say a manual would do the same. It has 5% more power to the rear wheels over an auto becouse the auto looses more power through the driveline and with a 5 spd u are always in the power band where the auto would shift and u would have to wait to get back to peak power.
With an open element I ran 15.9 at 84 it felt like a big differance, because the intake and exaust are both very restrictive.
ya ok a 25 dollar air cleaner would make a huge difference if u have poor intake and exahaust. I bet that thing is good for almost 25 hp huh
And no the clutch wasn't slipping
suuuurreeee.......probably the factory clutch in that car with somewhere around 100000 on it. Also a few trips to the track....ya i bet that clutch was sticking like glue......palsy
do you know how to change a clutch or anything else for that matter.
umm was that supposed to be an insult?? YES, i do know how to do a clutch job....as a matter of fact i just did one on my car last fall, and YES i do know how to do other things. im sorry if i cant spend all the time in the world under the hood of my trailer trash 3rd gen and put air cleaners on expecting huge increases in performance.
Please don't tell us what you've "heard of" go and find out for your self. Have you ever run your car at a strip?
umm ok half the people on this boars talk about things they heard so suck a ****. UMM acctually NO.... i have never taken my car to the track nor will i ever. I dont beat on my car, but see.....my car is worth more than 500$
Ok Mikey, calm yourself.
Zac, TBI is really unpredictable. But from what I have seen, on the track and on this board most 5-speed LO3's and auto LO3's run low 16's stock. That is a VERY pitiful time for a V8 I will admit, but it can be changed dramatically. And clear things up, who are u speaking to when you said the stuff about the clutch? Anyways, we told you what the LO3 can do stock, we gave you numbers and facts.
Mikey, I will admit that I have also heard of stock LO3's running 15's but they were very HIGH 15's. And I don't see very many. http://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/F...ML/000126.html
Check out that link Zac, I posted a thread awhile back for everyone to post their 1/4 mile times and some stock times were posted. With our 305's we REALLY suck in HOT weather. And we REALLY rule when it is cold. I know that is for most engines but listen to this. A friend of mine with a stock RS (LO3) ran a 16.5 on a HOT day, then for this nationals race event (it was cold that day) he ran a 16.1! Weather knocked off that much time and we didn't do nothin different to his car from before. I have noticed it at night, it just feels like the car pulls way harder. Thats why when I go to the track next I am deffinely going when it is a cold day.
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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
:takes deep breath: ok i am calm....but i think u r right, tbi is kind of unpredictable. Y one guy with a stock L03 would run 15s and another with the saem would run 16s i dont know but it happens. From what i have learned the auto cars ran low 16s to high 15s and the 5 spd where like high 15s to mid....but i could be wrong. NJSPEEDER is proof, look at his time nearls stock with an auto....
and to clear things up i was talking to ZAC. I know how a worn clutch could affect these cars. I had one at one time and i know the difference it can make. Thats y i asked if he knew what a fried clutch will do to his et's
Wow, I would have to see it for myself a LO3 stock get mid 15's. That would be REALLY amazing. I haven't seen it or heard of it yet though. I think our range is around 15.8-16.4 1/4 mile times. Just from what i have seen and what I have seen on here.
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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
it's starting to sound like we need to get everyone together for a battle of the tbi's. i can see it now......
(start wavey dream)
we all act like a bunch of bad asses with our own lane, then go out and bust down the track at speeds exceeding 90 mph. yeah that's it, with screeming fans and the cowboys cheerleaders throwing themselves at us, all because we are so studly we that we chose to take on one of the lamest factory v8's gm ever put into a camaro.
don't laugh!!!! it could happen.
lata
tim
------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.390 @ 94.99mph
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall), 36mm Front 25mm Rear Sway Bars, Eibach Pro Kit Springs, Bilstein Shocks and Struts, Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings, Baer Track Kit Front Brakes W/ Baer Disc Rears, 17x9 4th Gen SS Wheels, Ported TB, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers
ok well i can go with the 16.4 to 15.8 range but some of the tbi guys on here come talking about high 16 and low 17 second passes and that absolutely blows my mind considering that the 3.1 thirdgen can run 17s. I would say thye 16.4 to 15.8 range is most common for our cars and n e thing much lower than that is just "one of those cars"
I'm sorry if I came across as confrentational
I didn't know it would upset you. I was trying to correct the false info some one gave you about stock tbi 5-speeds running mid 15's.
There are some thing I want to clear up:
1. My free open element was probably more like 5-10hp at the most
2. I don't think my Dual Friction Centerforce with 1500 miles on it was slipping. It sticks just like glue.
3. My car has 80,000 miles on it.
4.I do spend time under my hood, I find out what works and what doesn't, I don't expect huge gains from an open element air cleaner, but I do know that it is much better than stock.
5."Trailer Trash Camaro" is that supose to be an insult? My car is in quite nice condition and there is nothing trailer trash about it.
6.Umm half the people on this board should go out and try things for themselves rather than sit on the internet and talk about what someone told them.
7. What are you trying to protect from a "beating", a $5,000 car with minimal mods. Why so it can sit in the garage. You can't honestly say you haven't stood on it through the gears, that's no different than at the strip.
8. My car is worth around $6,200.
Alright lets get back to improving our vehicles and not squable. I'm sure everyone has imfo that we would all benifit from, so please be open-minded and don't insist that you are right, listen to others opinions.
ok well i could analyize everything u just said and start a huge riot but i am not. i am to tired nor do i really care. but there are a few things.....
I'm sorry if I came across as confrentational
I didn't know it would upset you. I was trying to correct the false info some one gave you about stock tbi 5-speeds running mid 15's.
ok well if u r really being serious and not being a prick than i should be the one to apologize. But in all honesty no correction needed.
What are you trying to protect from a "beating", a $5,000 car with minimal mods. Why so it can sit in the garage. You can't honestly say you haven't stood on it through the gears, that's no different than at the strip.
umm ok i hope u werent trying to say that my car was worth 5 grand. Again i could get into a big arguement and start talking #s and dollar amounts but its just not worth it. I am not gonna try to impress someone i will probably never meet and would never see my car in person, for all u know i could be just b.s ing.
8. My car is worth around $6,200
i bet u feel kool now. OH NO, NOT 6200?!?!?!
Alright lets get back to improving our vehicles and not squable. I'm sure everyone has imfo that we would all benifit from, so please be open-minded and don't insist that you are right, listen to others opinions.
i fully agree, i should be a little more open minded so lets just end this here and 4 get it ever happened ....and one more thing........
Is it cool?
ya dude its kool. I have nothing against u, simply just a difference in opinions.
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1989 pontiac firebird
bright red extior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
-------------------------
system: 2 10" MTX thunder 2000 in a Professionally done custom bandpass box.
Blaupunkt CD player
Blaupunkt 4x6 and 6x9
600 watt rockford fosgate 4.6 amp
Hey Zac, I was only trying to help u with what I have seen and heard about stock LO3's times. What do u need to know about these engine besides that then? I can try to help you. What mods are the best from my personal experince? I can tell you that, look in my sig. Which were the biggest b*tches to put on and which were the easiest? I can tell you that expect for the tranny stuff (cooler I did but not the shift kit) or the rear end stuff, don't know how and I don't want to f' up my car. So if you need help with anything just ask k man? No more bashing now. Just questions and awnswers.
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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor
-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone
I have a 1991 RS with a 700R4 and ran a 15.5 at 88mph back in April in Englishtown.
Current mods are...Edelbrock TBI intake, 160 stat, crane compucam 2020, Edelbrock TES, Thrush CVX cat-back, high flow cat, Hypertech Thermomaster chip. When I ran that time I just had the tranny rebuilt and installed a pro-torque racing converter with a 2400 stall. Since then I replaced the 2:73 with a 3:42 posi.
What do you think that the gear change will bring me?
I think u could be running a lot better time with a custom prom NJ too. Off the wall chips don't really do to much. Not like what a custom prom can do. I would just try a custom from from a respectable company that is in your area. They probably have a dyno too so they can't get the best of out of the chip and your car. Howell in Michigan I think has a dyno.
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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
i would like to get a "dyno" tuned chip burned for my car. does anyone know of any place in jersey that does this? also, aren't these expensive? any contact number for anyplace that does custom chips is appreciated.
thanks
tim
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91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.390 @ 94.99mph
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall), 36mm Front 25mm Rear Sway Bars, Eibach Pro Kit Springs, Bilstein Shocks and Struts, Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings, Baer Track Kit Front Brakes W/ Baer Disc Rears, 17x9 4th Gen SS Wheels, Ported TB, 350 Injectors, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers
The only things I've done to the car besides the 6psi Paxton is, headers, removed cat (high flow going back on soon), 2 1/2" catback, flomaster w/2 3 1/2" tips, SLP take off posi, and 3.42 gears.
The engine and transmission are 100% STOCK! With heads, intake, cam, 2500rpm torque converter,and some computer work it should run mid 12's...in theory at least.
My car is a Teal 1992 Formula with only 65,000 miles and is also for sale...$6,500 oboKelly Blue Book says this car is worth over $7,300 w/o S/C!
E-mail me if you want more info.
Mike
[This message has been edited by Blown 305 TBI (edited November 22, 2000).]
I would also like to see that motor. Do you have a part number for that blower? Looking at the paxton site, I don't see anything for the 305TBI. Thanks...
Nice ride Tom! I cant help but think what some custom programming would do for you, you oughta look into that
same goes for you other guys running down in the 14s on the stock chip.. i didnt think a 14.3 was possible with the stock chip and cam.. thats awesome, but a custom chip would probably help you out lots
For Jim91RS: I have a 90RS convertible. I have run a best of 16.20 at 3 separate tracks. Both with the 2.73 open diff, then later with a swapped 3.45 posi and even with borrowed drag radials. I would say yours would also run low 16's as well. Lon
A tapped out 400cid running mid 13's! Dude.....you must need a chip or something. Look into one soon. Then see if it made a difference at the track. Hopefully it will.
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Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI (ZZ4 summer of "01")
ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-Accel Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
