Search



Go Back   Third Generation F-Body Message Boards > Tech Boards > TBI
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?

TBI Throttle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.

Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-03-2007, 10:41 AM   #1
Member
 
onebad89RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: waterford, MI
Posts: 186
Car: 89 RS
Engine: 305 carbed
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 auburn posi

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Large cap HEI for TBI engine

Well i have discovered a way to use a performance ignition with my stock TBI. and what a diffrence it made! if anyone is intersted in how i accomplished this let me know i can send my wiring digram of how i trick the PCM into thinking there is a stock distributor there. my engine revs so much quicker, and because of the advance curve feels like it has more power at low rpms.
__________________
1989 RS L03 305/700R/Auburn pro series posi w/3.42 gears.
Work in progress. edelbrock 600cfm carb on top of weiand stealth manifold, Edelbrock Shorty headers, 3 inch Flowmaster American thunder system w/ no cat.
emissions deleted, A/C deleted. K&N open element.

Soon to come: New 383 stroker est. 500 hp, moser 12 bolt, BTO level 3 700r4.
onebad89RS is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 10:48 AM   #2
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hurst, Texas
Posts: 6,583
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears

Classifieds Rating: (2)
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebad89RS View Post
Well i have discovered a way to use a performance ignition with my stock TBI. and what a diffrence it made! if anyone is intersted in how i accomplished this let me know i can send my wiring digram of how i trick the PCM into thinking there is a stock distributor there. my engine revs so much quicker, and because of the advance curve feels like it has more power at low rpms.
Not suprising at all, but it can be done cheaper by investing in a Prom Burner.

I have seen alot of TBI conversions run by the tach signal.

PS- I am not knocking your work at all, just giving an alternative for everyone else.

My Oldsmobile 307 TBI conversion runs on a CCC Q-Jet large cap HEI.
Fast355 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:00 AM   #3
Member
 
onebad89RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: waterford, MI
Posts: 186
Car: 89 RS
Engine: 305 carbed
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 auburn posi

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

I know it may not seem like a big deal, but with lack of performance distributors for CC tbi cars. and with the numerous non-cc distributors being made for carbed cars. i figured this was an easy way to gain performance, and tunability without a laptop. not to mention i can hook up an ignition box such as MSD alot easier with this setup. it was quite a challenge to get this to work the right way. mainly because the way it's wired
__________________
1989 RS L03 305/700R/Auburn pro series posi w/3.42 gears.
Work in progress. edelbrock 600cfm carb on top of weiand stealth manifold, Edelbrock Shorty headers, 3 inch Flowmaster American thunder system w/ no cat.
emissions deleted, A/C deleted. K&N open element.

Soon to come: New 383 stroker est. 500 hp, moser 12 bolt, BTO level 3 700r4.
onebad89RS is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 11:09 AM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Southern IN
Posts: 83
Car: 89 Camaro, 00Xtreme s-10, 89 Buick "Party Ave"
Engine: 305tbi
Transmission: 700r

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

sounds good...I have an extra hei dist. laying around that had a curve kit...yea, send me the diagram....thanx
ryan77 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 01:48 PM   #5
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Southern IN
Posts: 83
Car: 89 Camaro, 00Xtreme s-10, 89 Buick "Party Ave"
Engine: 305tbi
Transmission: 700r

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

does this also work on tpi 350's???
ryan77 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 03:53 PM   #6
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moorestown, NJ
Posts: 9,878
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 2.77's

Classifieds Rating: (2)

Send a message via AIM to dimented24x7
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

Any system that originally had the CC HEI.

Id love to convert over. the stock ignition system has always been an issue due to the lack of decent replacement parts. The only thing is that Id no longer have the flexibility of using the computer to control the timing. With the computer, setting the timing curve for the idle and open throttle is basically nothing more then banging on a keyboard for a few minutes. This and theres also alot more functionality for startup, idle speed control, and for preventing detonation.

Does anyone make any reasonably priced afterkmarkets that can be controlled by the computer?
dimented24x7 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 07:55 AM   #7
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Philly, PA
Posts: 6,475

Classifieds Rating: (0)

Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

The earlier HEIs work by the exact same basic principles as the later computer controlled ones. You won't find that a non-computer controlled HEI has any more juice than a computer controlled one. However, lacking a way of programming a computer controlled one it would certainly be a way of getting timing adjustment back to basic mechanical systems- springs, weights, vacuum advance. Given that the STOCK ignition curve on a TBI engine is rather weak and leaves a lot of performance on the table, I can imagine that going back to a early HEI and dialing in the timing curve could probably make the engine quite a bit stronger. Like was mentioned above, however, nothing that couldn't be done just as well or better by programming the computer controlled HEI's timing curve better than the stock programming.
Damon is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 08:15 AM   #8
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moorestown, NJ
Posts: 9,878
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 2.77's

Classifieds Rating: (2)

Send a message via AIM to dimented24x7
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

My beef with the stock system is that there is no support. The only parts available are junk and constantly go dead. It sucks because its easier to tune and more flexible then using a non-CC HEI dist.
dimented24x7 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 09:26 AM   #9
Member
 
onebad89RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: waterford, MI
Posts: 186
Car: 89 RS
Engine: 305 carbed
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 auburn posi

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

Ryan the mechanical HEI is rather large and would probably not fit behind the manifold. and so far i've tuned my hei for my car. and i can definatly tell you it woke my car up grately. i notice the most gain under 4000rpm. mainly cuz of the way the advance comes in kinda agressivly and where i want it. my car wouldn't spin the tires off the line more then 5 feet in the past. now it has the torque to spin them throughout 1st gear. The main reason i went mechanical is manily cuz i'm not a big fan of electronic stuff. but thats my own opinion.
__________________
1989 RS L03 305/700R/Auburn pro series posi w/3.42 gears.
Work in progress. edelbrock 600cfm carb on top of weiand stealth manifold, Edelbrock Shorty headers, 3 inch Flowmaster American thunder system w/ no cat.
emissions deleted, A/C deleted. K&N open element.

Soon to come: New 383 stroker est. 500 hp, moser 12 bolt, BTO level 3 700r4.
onebad89RS is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 02:39 PM   #10
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Chasing Electrons
Posts: 13,913
Car: check
Engine: check
Transmission: check

Classifieds Rating: (1)

Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by dimented24x7 View Post
My beef with the stock system is that there is no support. The only parts available are junk and constantly go dead. It sucks because its easier to tune and more flexible then using a non-CC HEI dist.
Dimented, have you tried GM stuff for the ignition module & shaft? I've found that the GM stuff does the job. I'll even buy a distributor from the junkyard if it has a GM ignition module. The other GM important part is the shaft with the 'star wheel' on it. The pickup coils I've gotten at places like NAPA & Car Quest.

RBob.
RBob is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 03:03 PM   #11
Moderator
 
Apeiron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Rio Oro de Santa Ana, San Jose, Costa Rica
Posts: 20,963
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop / 1988 IROC T-top
Engine: 383 Carb / 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60 / T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44 / 3.08 10 bolt

Classifieds Rating: (0)

Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by onebad89RS View Post
i can hook up an ignition box such as MSD alot easier with this setup.
Maybe not so easily. The automatic dwell circuitry in the 4 pin module doesn't like talking to an MSD box.
Apeiron is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 03:27 PM   #12
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Philly, PA
Posts: 6,475

Classifieds Rating: (0)

Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

When you convert a non-computer controlled large cap HEI over to an MSD box you bypass/remove the module completely. Wired striaght into the mag pickup. Very different install than with computer control.
Damon is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 03:31 PM   #13
Moderator
 
Apeiron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Rio Oro de Santa Ana, San Jose, Costa Rica
Posts: 20,963
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop / 1988 IROC T-top
Engine: 383 Carb / 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60 / T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44 / 3.08 10 bolt

Classifieds Rating: (0)

Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

Right, so it might be difficult to use the large-cap mechanical advance distributor with an MSD box and still be able to fool the ECM.
Apeiron is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 06:55 PM   #14
Supreme Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Philly, PA
Posts: 6,475

Classifieds Rating: (0)

Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

Don't know. If he can trick the ECM into thinking the original distributor is still there, as he claims, then the ECM wouldn't know you put an MSD box on the actual distributor that's running the motor. Once the ECM is "blind" to the actual distributor that's running the motor it really wouldn't matter whether you added an MSD to it or not.

I'd like to know how he did it. Maybe he'll post it up for all to see.
Damon is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 09:10 PM   #15
Member
 
onebad89RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: waterford, MI
Posts: 186
Car: 89 RS
Engine: 305 carbed
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 auburn posi

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

I've been having trouble getting my scanner to work but if i can figure out how to post a picture of my wiring diagram i'll take a picture of it and upload it...anyone know how?
__________________
1989 RS L03 305/700R/Auburn pro series posi w/3.42 gears.
Work in progress. edelbrock 600cfm carb on top of weiand stealth manifold, Edelbrock Shorty headers, 3 inch Flowmaster American thunder system w/ no cat.
emissions deleted, A/C deleted. K&N open element.

Soon to come: New 383 stroker est. 500 hp, moser 12 bolt, BTO level 3 700r4.
onebad89RS is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 10:08 PM   #16
Member
 
onebad89RS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: waterford, MI
Posts: 186
Car: 89 RS
Engine: 305 carbed
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 auburn posi

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

ok i have an attachment of my wiring diagram i made in paint. it's kinda distorted but it should still work.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ignition wiring.jpg (109.5 KB, 118 views)
onebad89RS is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2007, 09:45 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 785
Car: 90 454SS
Engine: 454 TBI
Transmission: TH400

Classifieds Rating: (1)

Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

I'm using the Performance Distributors CC big cap HEI.

Can't remember the wiring changeover as I did this several years ago.
__________________
90 454SS; TBI 496. Best to date: 12.42 @107, 1.63 60 ft.

92 454SS; stock with Wynjammer.
va454ss is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 08:54 PM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

so i attemped this got it it runs amazing but im having one issue, the fuel pump wont prime and starts up like its fully carburetor in the winter! i was curious if anyone else who has did this doing the same? does this to after switching the distributor or if one of my wires r connections r just poor. i also have the base timing set at 4 degrees advanced which is stock because im trying to pass emissions.
pillsbury_dboy is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 01:59 AM   #19
Supreme Member
 
UnderCover89TBI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Manteca,California. Nor Cal.
Posts: 7,233
Car: 89 Chevrolet Camaro RS
Engine: TBI w/EBL Flash
Transmission: 700R4 w/ Vigilante Stall Converter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 3.42 zexel torsen

Classifieds Rating: (22)
Send a message via Yahoo to UnderCover89TBI
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

D.U.I makes a computer controlled HEI distrubutor for the TPI cars. Im sure it'll fit in tbi cars. Is that what some of yall are needed? Summit sells them. If that's not what you meant sorry for wasting a post spot.
__________________


She is a work in progress, and progress is slow.

4bbl TBI run by EBL with full roller setup coming 2014.
UnderCover89TBI is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2010, 01:12 PM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Western NY
Posts: 109
Car: 71
Engine: 406
Transmission: Auto
Axle/Gears: 3.42 8.5" 10b

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast355 View Post
I have seen alot of TBI conversions run by the tach signal.
Bumping an OLD thread. The above quote has me curious.
Say I have an old school SBC with an HEI vacuum advance, coil in cap dizzy. Electronic ignition, not points. OK, now I want to put a TBI (1227747) setup on it to control fuel only, and leave the HEI alone.
Can I do this without running a 2nd ICM as discussed above? ECM needs to know RPM to run the injectors. Like, can I just run a signal off the tach wire to a pin on the ECM? Or does it need some conditioning? ECM has 4 pins: EST, Reference, bypass, Reflow. Can I just hook pin D4 (EST) to the tach side of the coil?

I know Howell makes a TBI unit (For Fords, Jeeps, etc) that does only fuel, uses a 1227747 ECM, and uses 1 wire to the ECM for tach signal. I'm trying to figure out how they do it, so I can do the same with a factory harness.
SB406 is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2010, 03:16 PM   #21
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1

Classifieds Rating: (0)
Re: Large cap HEI for TBI engine

will it effect emmisions
father of 6boys is offline vBGarage Page   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2010, 03:16 PM
ThirdGen
1992 Camaro




Paid Advertisement


Reply

Go Back   Third Generation F-Body Message Boards > Tech Boards > TBI

Tags
305, 350, 89, camaro, cap, distributor, engine, hei, large, msd, pin, regulator, run, system, tbi
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 


1982 Camaro '82 || 1983 Camaro '83 || 1984 Camaro '84 || 1985 Camaro '85 || 1986 Camaro '86 || 1987 Camaro '87 || 1988 Camaro '88 || 1989 Camaro '89 || 1990 Camaro '90 || 1991 Camaro '91 || 1992 Camaro '92


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright 1997 - 2014 ThirdGen.org. All rights reserved. No part of this website may be reproduced without the expressed, documented, and written consent of ThirdGen.org's Administrators.

Emails & Contact Details