Tbi-MAX

ok guys, im a newbie. but am fully aware of the knowledgeable guys on here... I just migrated from the fsc forum.

my 350 l05 took a crap from clogged fram oil filter at 200k

i need help building a engine for a 95 suburban, with 3.73 and G80 locker.

the engine is stripped, the block is at the machine shop gettin .30 over bored out! plans on becoming a 383 stroker, while still maintaining some sort of good mileage! it got 20mpg with old 350! even could stretch more... so hoping for 18 or so now...

I need lots of help, cause my guy is going with the parts i get him, he said he has built several race motors before... but Im still guiding him into whats "new" cause its been a while for him...

so far I have ordered these parts!
crank shaft by eagle: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=ESP-103523750
harmonic balancer for a 400: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=SUM-161400

Im still looking for the other parts i need to complete the build up, I will reuse my 5.7 rods. So im still looking for pistons, bearing, main, rods, vortec heads, adapter plate for tbi.... anything missing?


some of my other questions are:

*will I be able to re-use my sum 1102 camshaft? very new still... (4K miles)
*any vortec heads will fit from 96-99 correct?
*for my 95 suburban, any 96-00 s10 stall will work in my tranny? with my flexplate?
*where is a trusted site to get a ring kit, pistons, bearings, gaskets, 8qtr oil pan, high vol oil pump ???
*anyone got vortec heads pm me? or email valeboykid@hotmail.com

JohnBlazeLTZ

The best thing you could do for your project is use the search button up top and look around for topics here on 3rd Gen about 383 TBI. Look online also and look for specs on TBI 383 engines to get an understanding what some other guys use BEFORE you start buying parts.

There a lot of places to find 383 TBI info...unfortunately...a lot of guys that have tried them on here don't end up very successful with TBI. A lot of guys think the 383 is the holy grail of street engines...and in a lot of ways...it actually is...but it is rarely really successful with a TBI. If anything the success with a 383 has been had with a TPI but there has been some moderately successful 383 TBI's.

http://www.strokerengine.com/test383TBI.html

http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/howto/60118/

http://www.blueprintengines.com/popu...ptions&pcsci=5

http://www.high-performance-engines.com/spc1.html

http://motorworksengines.com/CH383DDHR.php



Look for the small port GMPP Vortec heads...they are killer. They out run the Fast Burn heads but they are cast iron and they are far cheaper. The Fast Burn heads are sweet heads to though...they just cost an extra chunk of change. If you end up using Vortec heads your gonna need a Vortec TBI intake from GMPP. This intake uses an EGR too. A TBI 383 really won't make much more power than a TBI 350...probably onlu 330hp max...unless you get a really talented tuner...maybe clser to 400hp. It will on the other hand make about WAY more ft/lbs of TQ...which would be great for your Burb. That's really your biggest trade off with a 383 TBI engine...more TQ...that's it.

I know your friend has probably built some good strong engines but does he know how to tune a TBI? Your real issue will be all about tuning. Your gonna need to bore out (or even swap to the 454ss large bore TB) the TBI and make sure you have the proper size injectors set at the right PSI. Tuning a 383 TBI is the difficult part. It'll need a large bore TBI and in up wards of 90lb/hr injectors set at or above 15psi. To get the most out of the engine...you should really run headers, a free flow exhaust and a good cold air intake of some sort. With out these main things...a TBI engine will choke itself out.

As far as the cam goes...to each his own. Its all personal preference. I imagine you have a flat tappet already...I might suggest doing a roller cam...they ramp up faster than a flat tappet. Roller cams also have less of a chance of damaging the lifters at break in. I would contact a reputable cam company like Comp Cams or Crane and ask about as good cam that is computer compatible. Make sure to not get one that is too crazy. If the cam is too radical...it can reek havoc on vacuum for brakes and such.

Eagle makes good stuff...make sure to get a 1 piece rear main seal.

I don't know that I can be of great help but I can at least get the ball rolling for you...the tuner guys would probably be able to help you more than I in that area.

JB

Tbi-MAX

thanks for the help, and guidance... also the links.

ok, that is exactly what Im after, MORE TQ! my heavy Suburban needs it!! Im mostly concerned with TQ, but I will try to tune every last drop of HP afterwards... I want something reliable, and strong, using midgrade gas or even premium.

no my guy, has NO clue of tuning, he can just make a motor, and make it run good... The tuning will be up to me to handle... Right now, I know squat about tuning, I hope to purchase a tune just to use the vehicle right after, then I myself get into tuning, and changing things more.


thanks for the heads up on the vortec heads... I was looking for the cheapest heads anyway... still cant find any... I dred to reuse the TBI heads, but I might have to. This is if I cant find vortec heads in time.

here is what I got to reuse:

MSD 6AL & MSD Blaster 2 coil
Summit K1102 camshaft: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku
204/214 @ 050 lift

^^^ I did notice change in my vaccum, so Im not willing to change the cam again to something bigger... Its a good cam and only had 3k miles or so, before my engine died.

A roller cam conversion kit will cost some serious $$ for this block.

Im trying to keep this build affordable, and still very reliable! The old motor made it 202K!

As far as the 454 TBI, Im not worried, cause my 350 TBI is bad, split thread at the fuel lines on the body of the TBI.. so I take it, its a good time to purchase a 454 TBI unit?

do they come with the 90lb injectors? I will need, or any injectors I can use?

I do have a high flow intake, NO slicer box, gets lots of cold air from the fender, stock exhaust headers are still on it however...

Ps, I did get the 1 piece seal!

SO Im looking at ordering similar ring and pistons I see on these other 383 builds...


Please guys, keep chiming In, cause I have to finish this build in 5days or so!

Tbi-MAX

so anyone else suggest a bigger cam? what should I go with? I need my power down low, and torquey, I drive a Suburban, heaVY! I have 3.73 gears. I need a upgrade from this for my stroker: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The 383 will be a real stump puller with that cam, but itll have a real narrow power band. Sort of like a diesel. Id go with something slightly larger, like maybe around 208-210 degrees of duration at the intake if you want to have a similar powerband that the 350 had.

Tbi-MAX

ok so what is the largest cam, I can dump in here, and still have gops of torque low down, I wont be revving past 5500. but still as much hp as possible.. still tune-able and decent idle..
I will be looking for something to do a little more, than my old cam did in the 350.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The above would probably give you low end torque and 20 in Hg of vac at idle. You could probably go higher without issue, but the more duration you have, the farther out itll move the torque band.

JohnBlazeLTZ

I know how you feel about the stock heads... alot of us feel the same way. I am not even sure you can use them on the 383 because the combustion chamber may be a bit too big.

I guy I know Glen...he did a 383 TBI in his Olds Custom Cruiser wagon. He used the GMPP TBI intake and a set of stock vortec heads with 58 or 62cc heads. (I can't remember...its been a while since then.) It ran good...had loads of TQ and used the 68lb/hr 9C1 injectors at high pressure and a 50mm 750 cfm TBI. He got a chip from Brian at TBI chips. I felt he could've got more out of it but he didn't do any more tuning. Brian got it good in about 2-3 chips. The HP was "estimated" (never dyno'd) at about 300-315 at the flywheel but the thing was nice to cruise around in. It was strong enough to pull away from a lot of stuff by mashing the throttle. It is a good engine. He did have to go to after market headers though because the stock B-Body exhaust manifolds didn't line up with the exhaust ports. He tried the truck manifolds wouldn't even fit in there and the Impala SS manifold didn't work either. They probably could've been mod'd to fit but he didn't want to waste his time and just got some headers from Clear Image. They ultimately fit.

IF you end up using the Vortec heads...you will need the Vortec truck exhaust manifolds too because the stock non-Vortec manifolds won't fit. So...using the Vortec heads will cost you more than if you used non-vortec heads. You will need a new manifold and a set of headers. at that rate...you could just use the Edlebrock TBI Perf. intake and get a good set of iron heads like Dart Iron Eagles or World S/R Torquers and use your stock manifolds. The money might be a bit cheaper in the end

I know that a lot of people...especially around here... will support DYI tuning but there are resources/people who can help you at least get the truck going until you are ready to start really dialing it in. So...although you might not know tuning...not a lot of people do...myself included...you could AT LEAST get one that will get you going and get it drive able from somebody like Brian @ TBI Chips or PCM For Less...they do EPROM chips too. Ideally...if you could find some body near you that knows how to tune and would be willing to help you...that would be really cool.

I knew one guy that built a flat tappet 350 for a caprice and he got a mail order chip. At first he used the 68lb/hr 9C1 injectors but it ran so rich at start up it wouldn't stay running really well at idle and he was blowing a ton of carbon out the tailpipe. So he got the 55lb/hr injectors and raised the fuel pressure a bit...got TBI Chips to redo it and it ran great after only two chips. So...I think he got pretty lucky. Not everyone can get a mail order and be happy in just 2 tries...that's practically unheard of. Minimum is at least 3 chips.

I imagine the 454 unit would be more desire able for the 383 but there's no guarantee. Every engine is different. Unfortunately you may run into some trail and error problems. The first TB and injector set up you try may not work really great. You may have to try a different solution. Some guys like the larger 454 TB with 90lb injectors...some guys like the stock TB bored out to 50mm and run the 68lb/hr 9C1 injectors with high pressure. There is no exact science...but there are boundary's for you to operate within for best results. That is why tuning is so important. Out of all the tuning things I have seen the best one would be the Dynamic EFI set up. That would be your best bet. That's what a lot of the guys around here use and they seem to have the best results for the money.

As far as the hard parts go...don't worry to much about expensive name brand parts that support up to 750-1000hp...just build one that can support up to 500hp with good reliable stockish parts. Like you wouldn't necessarily need a forged crank or forged H Rods and forged pistons. That would be overkill for your desired hp/TQ range.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

With standard GM vortec heads, all you need is teh intake manifold. From my recollection, theyre externally the same on the exhaust side. If your running a mild cam with < .460" of lift, theyre the way to go. Even with the manifold, theyre only ~700 dollars, and most people will need to upgrade the intake manifold, anyway. Also, Id get headers and a good exhaust regardless. Although the stock manifolds are better on the trucks, theyre far from performance. If your planning on anything using a high lift cam, then the vortecs become a less economical option.

JohnBlazeLTZ

Well...in the case of the stock SBC 1991-1993 Caprice manifolds...they have the traditional exhaust ports...they didn't work on the 906 castings. So...if traditional exhaust manifolds work on Vortec's then why wouldn't the Caprice manifolds work on the 906 casting?

BTW...RHS (formally ProTopline now owned by Comp Cams) makes good vortec heads too.

http://www.racingheadservice.com/Inf...rtec-Heads.asp

Tbi-MAX

hmmm, let me digest this, if i get a bigger duration, my torque kicks in later or at a higher rpm? versus it just kicking right in at 1krpm then falling off?
----------
hmm so the stock vortec, needs more work done to use a bigger cam! huh! $$
what about throwing a huge cam in the TBI heads? any better than vortec performance or close?

Tbi-MAX

I to have heard alot about the exhaust headers to make the vortec work... even though the gmpp intake has the egr, you must still route it to the exhaust header, from what the guys on FSC has been saying!

About the TBI heads, will a ungodly big cam help? or would that just kill my mPG, and be terrible to tune? If it is a cam, that can make these heads perform similiar to the vortec heads, I will have to consider this also...

If I can pick up the larger 454 tb I will grab it from a junkyard, and clean it up. otherwise, I think its easier for me to just plug in 90lb injectors in my current TB.

so I dont have to worry too much about HARD parts, since my build will be under 500h? so can you tell me if these pistons will hold up? : http://store.summitracing.com/partde...&view=1&N=700+
OR
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

or are they stronger than stock? I will feel more comfortable...
like I said, I just need a TQ plant.. I have not ordered them yet, but still weighing options...

correct that the flat top, will yield more power with TBI heads, but dish is better for the Vortec heads? or am I lost?


GUYS, I still have to order these parts: I need help still:

Pistons
oil pump, strainer, etc
Rings, Bearing, Mains
flexplate
heads (vortec hopefully)
Reuse stock 5.7 Rods...

PS, also seems like I will be ordering from SUMMIT, cause the shipping is FAST, 2days... I already got my balancer in, but crank, is a no show, It should be in tommorow.

JohnBlazeLTZ

Well...the Vortec can handle more than the stock TBI. Both can be modified to handle more than they do stock...this is where the extra funds will come in. The TBI Heads...uh...are probably not the heads you want to put a lot of money in. They were the first of what GM called the lightweight castings and putting too much lift into them will cause them to crack. I am pretty sure you don't want that! There are other stock heads that would flow nice too if you were to have a little work put into them...then again...that raises the cost and at that rate...you could get some after market cast iron heads for not A LOT more and the work has already been done to those.

The Vortec's are almost as is...stock...they are already pretty much all they can be. Some guys do minor port work and gasket matching...that's really about it. I have read many many articles where reworking Vortec's actually hurt their performance. I too am a fan of Vortec heads...but there are other heads to consider too. Did you check the Dart Iron Eagles or the World heads? RHS makes a dang good cylinder head too. These after market heads will also accept good lift too. Of course these are cast iron...theres always aluminum but...then there always the PRICE of aluminum heads. But for a daily driver...cast iron is a solid foundation...for sure.

As far as pistons go...did you call Summit and ask them what they recommend? That would be a good idea. I would be calling all kinds of people to pick their brain on what is the best quality parts for your build up. Guys around here can offer great advice but it seems that you may not have enough time to wait for replies. You have an engine to build man...you should be getting this stuff lined up and calling and talking to guys is the only way to git'r done!!! There are a lot of good pistons to choose form...I would stay away from stock cast pistons though...they just aren't that great when compared to all the others out there.

Dished pistons are for when you are using a cylinder head with a small combustion chamber...or a supercharger. They help lower the compression ratio. For instance blower motors would need a moderate compression ratio...for instance...the engine I was gonna build for my blower was going to be around 9.2:1 compression. 8.5:1 would've been real low and caused the engine to work harder to achieve the hp/tq goals. I was going to use SRP dished pistons. In your case...you might like to use a a little compression. it will help out with the power so flat tops would be a good choice but it all depends on the combustion chamber in the cylinder heads you are planning on using. They will ultimately determine what piston you will use...and that depends on the compression ratio you want. It depends on what you want. The higher compression the stronger more responsive the engine will be...but then the drag strip guys are 12:1 or more...and that you don't need either.

Here a build sheet on a 383 TBI engine on Ebay. 3rd Gen doesn't like linking Ebay ads so...that is why I am just showing yo the specs.

# THIS ENGINE HAS THE FOLLOWING:

# Premium Seasoned 4-Bolt main block.
# GM 350/3.750 con rods with NEW HP rod bolts and nuts.
# NEW Lightweight 383 Steel Crankshaft.
# NEW Hyperutectic Flat-Top Pistons 9:1 comp ratio.
# NEW Plasma Moly Piston Rings.
# NEW Speed Pro Camshaft & Lifters .420/.443 - 204/214 - 107 specs.
# NEW Performance Gasket set.
# NEW High Volume Oil Pump.
# NEW HD Tri-Metal 780 "IROC" Series Rod,Main & Cam Bearings.
# NEW Flex-Plate. GM Harmonic Balancer.
# NEW HP Double "True Roller" Timing Set.
# NEW Brass Freeze Plugs.
# New World S/R Torquer Cast Iron Cylinder Heads with NEW Stainless Steel Swirl Polished 2.02/1.60 valves, Comp Series Springs .530 Lift, Bronze Valve Guides, Hardened Locks & Viton Seals.
# NEW Head Bolts.
# NEW Rockers.

It pushes 9:1 compression with flat tops. It has a cam that is very similar to your...BUT...the lobe seperation is 107*. Yours is right around where it should be for a TBI engine. Getting too far away from the 112* lobe seperation will cause the vacuum to be thrown all out of whack. They are using Iroc rods and I am not real crazy about those. I like the Vortec rods...they are better than all the previous SBC rods.

They advertise that this engine can produce 390HP & 456 FT/LBS TQ. Can it? Yeah...probably. Will you need to tune the ever living crap out of it? Hell yeah you will! Notice that it has after market heads though. Heads and cam make a world of difference. These to things alone...if they are not matched properly...it will be a dud instead of a stud.

BTW...your gonna need a 400 flex plate...the stock 350 one won't work.

Tbi-MAX

Man, you have been such a great help, I really love this forum. Its been the most help to me so far! Thanks for the lesson on the heads, I did see some World Heads, for about the same price of the vortecs. What are some other stock heads that will bolt up, but be better than the TBI?

Im on my way, to ordering, alot of parts today. I got the low down on the pistons now, thanks. My guy said he was gonna make the pistons sit a little tighter than they should, so he is gonna horn it himself, after the bore, so it helps the compression to be better, he said I will need the thick head gaskets too.. anyways things are on their way...
Machine shop, is just so freakin busy, but block will be finish MON-TUE ! So I want the other parts in by then.

Also, thanks for clearing up the flexplate for me! I do want to make it a stud instead of a dud... I will post the parts I order to complete the bottom!

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Might want to check if your using a one-piece RMS stroker crank. Those likely use the same flexplate as your stock engine.

Tbi-MAX

yes it IS a 1 piece, like the crankshaft I bought, it will be here MON... My 350 flexplate is cracked, or has hairline crack, from the noise it was making. So Ill just replace it with the 400 flexplate, if the 350 will work, Ill use that, if its the same price. My guy said he should get that for free!
----------
these are the parts, Im thinking about ordering ALL up tonight!

ready? ok:

fuel filter: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...part=ACF-GF652
main bearing: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=CLE-MS909P
rod bearing: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=FEM-8-2555CP
oil pump & pickup welded: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...ES-3-60-08-037
piston rings 4.030: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=SLP-E-251K030
pistons 4.030: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=SUM-17350-30

Im ordering these tonight, so far so good??
PS, If someone find a good fuel pressure regulator from SUMMIT, I can use, let me know.

Tbi-MAX

yahhh whoooo



SUMMIT is taking my old camshaft back! with full refund....

so that means, I get a BIGGER BUMP stick!!


NOW I NEED to find a good bump-stick, I will be searching again...

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

For the flexplate, I think youll need a stock 87+ with the external weight. The bolt pattern and balance is different on the newer flexplates due to the fact thta the counterweight on the end of the crank was displaced when they went to the newer RMS.

Tbi-MAX

hmmm,
the crankshaft says: " Requires Chevy 400 harmonic balancer and use of stock flexplate."

stock meaning?? I was thinking 350 flexplate, but they can also be meaning the 400 flexplate....

Everything is externally balanced. Should I just look for a flexplate and get it? cause it may be harder than my guy think it is to find!

Tbi-MAX

Guys, Im SORRY to say it...

so far it looks like, I will be bumpin the Vortec heads off the list, maybe it will return as a future mod!!

So far:
crankshaft and balancer ordered: $264
machine work (bore, horned, cleaned, bearings, plugs): $245

and the stuff listed above what I plan on ordering tonight:
ring pistons: $38
pistons: $84
main bearing: $23
rod bearing: $25
oil pump & strainer: $65
fuel filter: $13

should put me right around $255 shipped

so far Ive used 764$ out of 1G BUDGET for my stroker parts!

$236 is left.... not enuff for the vortec swap, and other accompanying mods that come along with just those heads... still not enuff for aftermarket heads!

Im thinking about using my change, and getting LONG TUBE headers?? and a bigger CAMshaft... and even some of the stuff to start tuning with...

and calling it a 383!

what would be the estimated output of this engine?? I really want a TQ monster... I also dont want to get let down...

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

As far as the flexplate goes, I would assume theyre probably referring to the use of the stock 87+ 168 tooth stock flexplates with the counterweight on them. Might want to check, just to be sure.

If you use your stock heads and a "929" flat tappet cam, or your previous one you returned, you could get some serious torque, but it probably wont make alot of power. With the 929, it would probably be around 240 HP or so.

The vortecs along with the 330HP HO cam would be a good setup for a mild street driven daily driver, but that cam probably wouldnt be a good match to teh stock swirl port heads. Itll work, but the power will taper off at higher RPMs due to the lack of flow. If your planning on getting a set of stock vortecs, id just get teh cam now and live with the mismatch untill funds permit the replacement of teh stock heads.

Tbi-MAX

lots of changes, prob wont get vortecs at all the next go around. just some good aftermarket heads, like world torquer or something... please tell me how this list looks, cause Im about to order them tommorow. The guys on FSC think the TBI heads will do great with the new cam.

Again I appreciate everyones quick help on this, I needed you guys!

ORDERING-

flexplate: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...I&autoview=sku

NEW camshaft: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...&view=1&N=700+

NEW pistons: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...8&autoview=sku

piston rings: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=SLP-E-251K030

pushrods: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...4&autoview=sku

rod bearings: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=FEM-8-2555CP

main bearings: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=CLE-MS909P

fuel filter: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...part=ACF-GF652

oil pump & strainer: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...ES-3-60-08-037


RECEIVED-

crankshaft: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=ESP-103523750
harmonic balancer: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=SUM-161400

steve8586iroc

Tbi-MAX, I noticed that you are wanting to use a S10 TQ converter. You might want to reconsider and just use the stock one instead. You say you want lots of low in torque so why would you want a converter that would probable stall around 2200 to 2400 rpm or possibly more, in a heavy Burb like yours. I would think the stock converter would be all you would need.

Steve

P.S. Save some mroe cash too.

Tbi-MAX

hey Steve, I never thought about it much... maybe I should reconsider it... Ive just seen the guys on FSC using them alot, I just thought it would be a good upgrade from the stock...

but if I will lose TQ, or move it from my lower end, I will NOT use that stall converter at all. Thanks for the heads up!

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I ran a 2,600 rpm Yank Truck converter behind a stock L05 with bolt-ons. It ran very well and did not lack low-end to the least degree.

Fracture

You realize your compression ratio is going to be pretty high with those pistons.

With 64cc TBI heads and an 4.13x0.031 head gasket, pistons .012" in the hole (which is what they will be if you don't deck the block with those pistons),

you'll have a compression ratio of exactly 11:1. WAY too high for you. Get some pistons with some more dish to them. Even with an extra-thick head gasket you'll still be pushing 10.5:1.

Tbi-MAX

shhh!t... that is ultra high compression ratio! i cant afford racing fuel... my guy told me make sure and get the thick head gasket... but Im thinking about getting dish pistons now!

dish shouldnt have any ill affects on power?

I was getting pistons, flat, cause he said he thought those will be ok... I guess Ill have to rework somethings... good thing I hadnt order yet.

Tbi-MAX

hmm, thats what I thought, cause alot of guys on FSC run them, and if anything, I thought it helped, and I was hoping to make it do a burnout like Fast355 video in the parking lot... that looked like a lot of low end, and smoke...

91chevz71

that is a badass video. something about a van being able to smoke most other cars is cool

Tbi-MAX

Fracture, I found this:

"For example, you can run 11:1 compression on pump gas if you use a long-duration cam with a late-closing intake to bleed off some of that low-speed cylinder pressure. This is the main reason why camshaft companies recommend higher static compression ratios with longer-duration camshafts. This is an attempt to improve power at low and midrange engine speeds by making up for the late-closing intake valve with more static compression."

from: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...e_compression/

so will my bigger camshaft, produce this phenomena? or should I start looking for new pistons? I cant even find anything this price anymore.. I will keep looking, but let me know what you think of that article.

Fracture

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...8&autoview=sku

These will give 9.4:1 with 4.13x.039" gaskets, 9.65:1 with .028 gaskets (mr. gasket ultra seal makes this thickness)

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

These are 9.3:1 with 4.13x.039 gaskets, and 9.5:1 with .028 gaskets.

This is with an undecked block. Decking the block will raise the compression ratio.

steve8586iroc

I know that the converter won't cause him to lose low end tq. I just thought it would cover it up. If he has an engine that make gobs of tq off idle to say 4200rpm why waste half of if just to fry the tires. With a 305 pulling the same size truck I could understand, but a 383 shouldn't have any problems doing a good burnout. It sure won't help his city mpg. It will also require or at least I would consider a good trans cooler to go with it. Just my $.02

Steve

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't run 11:1 with iron heads on the street. The cam I dont think will be a factor, because any of your selections are too small for the effect they're talking about as far as I would guess. But, if you've already ordered the pistons, just get a thick head gasket, I think Fel Pro has gaskets in the .051 range that could keep you under 10.5:1 I think, which is still a bit much but going in the right direction. Port the heads a little, opening up the chambers and there's your extra few cc's to drop the compression.

Tbi-MAX

man, you saved me! I just realized how expensive pistons are... dang! just as much as my crankshaft almost... Im unsure of my gaskets size, I know I just have a FELPRO set, in my cart: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=FEL-KS2600
I think it will be ok, once I get those dish pistons!

QUESTION? What is FLOAT and PRESS FIT! ? cause the Keith Black are float, and I just thought press fit was stronger.. so maybe I get the other pistons that are press fit deep dish... ??

well I decided to change pistons to: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=STL-H859CP30

so that should help the compression with the iron heads daily.... yea, cause Im getting that cam Summit K1103. I plan on using FELPRO kit: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=FEL-KS2600

sure is... I would not mind, being able to do that, in my suburban...



how would it cover up? the engine does makes gobbles down low, off idle. I just thought I would have more control, from what I gather, with the higher stall... I have a extra trans cooler, and oil cooler, and a condenser the size of ones radiator! then a huge radiator equipped on my Suburban... SO I know cooling will be good, perhaps running 2 trans coolers in series?

i do not tow anything, would keeping the stock converter make me feel the torque any more than the 2500 would? I want to keep the engine in its power band...
example:

WOT it will pull hard!, then shift, << thats when I drop out of my engine power band from like 4Krpm, to like 1500.... (WTF) This is where the S10 stall will drop me back to like 25-2700, and pull out of this world!! Also allowing me to burn the tires at will when wanting too. Like I said more control, cause it will be even easier to accelerate slower than the stock stall at part throttle!!

stock, the slightest touch of the gas, and its gone!
S10, I should get more control, but if I go too deep, it will be gone just as fast as the stock...

am I correct?

Fracture

Dang it, I must have been tired last night. I linked you the 12cc dish pistons with my calculations. I was using the 18 cc dish versions for my calculations.

Really sorry about that

12cc dish will net you around 9.8-10:1

Tbi-MAX

ok, its no biggie man... I just appreciate you helping me, along with the help to all who helped me! I take it 9.8-10.1 is a good ratio, stock was like 9.1 I think.

JohnBlazeLTZ

Dished pistons will not hurt performance. They will lower the compression ratio to a usable level.

Seriously...you don't want high compression engine. I would think anything between 9.2 to 9.7:1 compression max. Like I said earlier...high compression is usually for drag strip only.

The 383 is gonna create a lot of tq just because its a 383. Sure a cam and a good head combo will make more hp or tq but the stroked out cylinder bore alone will provide some nasty TQ.

Tbi-MAX

okay....
FINALLY!

this is what the 383 stroker will look like:

balancer: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=SUM-161400
flexplate: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...rt=SUM-G101SFI
crankshaft: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=ESP-103523750
camshaft: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...part=SUM-K1103
pistons: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=STL-H859CP30
piston rings: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=SLP-E-251K030
pushrods: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...rt=CCA-7812-16
oil pump and strainer HI VOL: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...ES-3-60-08-037
rod bearings: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...t=FEM-8-2555CP
main bearings: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=CLE-MS909P
gaskets: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...art=FEL-KS2600


thanks to the guys, who helped with the build...
fingers crossed... hope everything matches up...


about $856 just in parts, 240$ on engine machine work... = $1092 out of a budget of 1G!

$400-450 for the engine build (my guy)
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yea, Im sure Ill be happy! You just hit my questions on the head with that answer!! Im confident the TQ will be beastly now! Especially when I start tuning this sucker.

JohnBlazeLTZ

Ask about getting the heads worked a tiny itty bit. just clean up the intake and exhaust ports....probably just a little gasket matching is all that it really needs. Make sure the springs you use won't crack the head too!

Tbi-MAX

Yea, he mentioned what I was planning, I told him keeping the TBI heads, and port them out some more, to make it flow better. he said he can handle that by himself. So it will be ported TBI heads... So now, what springs will work in that TBI head, with the larger camshaft Im receiving? summit k1103?

BMmonteSS

I don't want to derail your parts train here, but I hate to see you spend all this time and money and not be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor.

You really need to get the chip burning equipment NOW and start learning on your stock motor. Trying to learn on a new motor that is as modified as yours is could be a recipe for disaster.

Just like a carb, it's very possible to end up way too lean with too much timing and start chunkin parts out the side of the block. I don't want to scare you, just nudge you in the right direction. When you change as much as you are changing the ECM isn't going to have a fighting chance of feeding this motor correctly.

JohnBlazeLTZ

I hate to say this but BM Monte is right....the bad thing is that you are using the stock block and have already torn the motor down. Its already at the machine shop right?

This is a tough one at this point. You may want to personally contact BMmonte, Fast or somebody on this forum and get some advice. In the end...you may have to contact a mail order to at least get you going...or..."GULP"...pay for tuning at a speed shop.

kdrolt

OK but does he know what to do in porting them? You need to find out, and IMO you ought to be able to look at them before you installs them. If you are going to all the trouble & cost of a 383 then you ought to make sure that you get extra head flow in the process.

I'll 3rd the comments made on the EPROM tuning. The cost to get you going is small relative to the payoff.

BMmonteSS

Some of the guidance and lack of guidence with building your motor would make me kinda leary of your engine builder.

Most engine shops I deal with are intimately interested in the parts selection process as bad parts make them look bad and can even stop the build in it's tracks if the wrong parts are ordered.

Man I hate to sound like I'm pointing out all the bad things here, but I'm not getting warm fuzzies about the whole project.

JohnBlazeLTZ

Yeah...I mean your right...there has to be a "devils advocate"...or someone that is willing to speak up on the "what if's"...and there's nothing wrong with that.

This engine isn't going to be successful if you just rush into it and slap some parts on a 383 short block if you aren't doing adequate research. This isn't something that can happen after 5 days worth of suggestions and a 1000 dollars. I have spent at least 4 years reading and researching for the engine I wanted and in the end...I started collecting parts for a supercharged TBI and found that it won't offer what I wanted exactly and that a supercharged application on a stock 350 TBI will not offer anywhere near the amount of TQ needed to get a whale body Caprice moving.

Ken's (kdrolt) also right...you need to understand the best way to clean up the swirl port heads to get them to flow at an acceptable level or the engine will be essentially breathing in and out of a straw until it can be uncorked.

Like I said previously...you should be doing searches on Third gen and find more info on working up a TBI Build.

Aside from the hugely important stickies at the top of the page...here are a few to get you started...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...193-heads.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...ted-193-s.html

You have got to educate yourself on this man or this project of yours will turn in to a huge pain in the ****.

Tbi-MAX

okay, I understand this, I MUST have a PROPER tune, before I even start driving this sucker! Its too late to practice on stock, cause its already, no longer stock. I will not drive it crazy at all, until I get a proper tune, if I can baby it home after the buildup, (10 miles) I can park it here, till I receive a proper mail order tune. So I can drive it after that, until I get my own tuning stuff... I absolutely don't want the stock tuning in there, while I drive! Will it be unsafe to even baby it home? Thanks for nudging me in the correct direction..

PS who can provide me a PROPER mail order tune ASAP?
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yes, Its at the machine shop, and it will be finished tomorrow! So my main problem now, is the TUNE! I need something in it before I even start it up then?? ok, I understand better now! Tuning at a speed shop would cost lots, I actually stay in raceway country, NC "speedway"

I will try to contact BMmonte, or Fast.. I hope I can pay those guys to get me a tune to get started!

Tbi-MAX

I was taking his word, as he said he have done alot of race motors before, and a lot of porting work... at first he even thought he could port match the tbi intake to the vortec heads, but he wasn't sure about the bolt pattern.. then as we all know, different bolt pattern!

If I got the vortec heads, he was gonna port them in a automotive college class over a 2 day period, so that would have been free. But he say the TBI heads he can do in his garage. I will look at the heads to see how much porting he does, and I will be looking up about porting on the TBI heads, from the stickies I got now.

Yea, I will get the tuning done!

JohnBlazeLTZ

No. Leave it sit.

I know this is going to go over about as well here as asking a question about a 1993 Ford 5.0 Mustang but...if you need a mail order chip...then contact TBI Chips or PCM for Less.

I can also get you the name of another company but I can't remember the name...and I have their card at home. I personally met those guys and they are really cool. They spent a whole weekend tuning cars for free at last July's Imp SS show in Indy, IN last year. Mostly they do LT1 but they do offer chip tunes. I'd go with PCM for Less first. I like Brian and TBI Chips but I sometimes wonder about his skill after reading posts from other people who have dealt with him. He may not be the best guy to tune a 383 TBI. His website would convince you that he knows what he is doing and he does but...I knew someone that he did a TPI chip on a 400 TPI and he was not happy with it at all.

http://www.pcmforless.com/

http://www.tbichips.com/

Make sure to get all the engine specs before you call them.


Honestly...I know you are going to probably change heads later so...shoot...I'd rather you tow it to a reliable speed shop and have them dyno tune it for you instead of paying for a chip.

You could buy the Dynamic EFI...install it into the car...have it towed to a speed shop/tuner...then give them the program and have them tune it for you. Case closed.

BTW...I wouldn't beg BMonte for Fast for a tune...just ask them for some advice as to what to keep in mind while you tune or getting it tuned. Begging for EPROM Tunes can be hazardous to your health around here!!!

Tbi-MAX

Thanks for your concerns, cause you and me both share this concern. About the piston compression mess, I confronted him, but he said he was gonna fit those pistons so tight, it wouldn't have had any problems? I told him my compression was gonna be 11.1, if I got the flat tops he told me would work. Something smells, but he is no college grad, he just been building motors for years.

Its not even a shop, its at his house, in his home garage! He said he can build the motor in 1-2 days after I get all the parts to him. Im getting him the parts, due to the higher local prices. Ive also payed him half of his labor already!

Im just gonna keep my eyes closer on him. I guess he knows how to build motors, but not the theory, and reasons behind certain things they teach you at a mechanical school or something...

Tbi-MAX

ok, I wont even drive it!!

I need a tune ASAP! The mechanic guy has a tow truck, so Ill have him tow it to my house, when finished. Its alot of speed shops in my area, maybe have him tow it up there, and pay for a dyno tune. I have no idea what this will cost, Ill be making calls all day then.

Ok, thanks for the heads up, I will see what these guys recommend as far as input in my tune. Time to find a phonebook.