Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I have had multiple people ask about re-pinning their earlier TBI cars/trucks to use the latest PCM. So here is the result. Information regarding the swap.

PCM Swap/Tuning Notes

8746/6965/7747/299 to 427 Truck PCM (Car showed, Trucks VERY similar)

Old Pin----New Pin-----Color------------Function

A1--------F6----------GRN/WHT-------Fuel Pump Relay Control
A3--------F16---------DK GRN/YEL-----Charcoal Canister Purge Solenoid
A4--------E1----------GRY-------------EGR Control
A5--------E6----------BRN/WHT--------Service Engine Soon Light
A6--------E15---------PNK/BLK---------Ignition Feed +12VDC
A7--------(1*)--------TAN/BLK---------TCC/Shift Light
A8--------F9----------ORN------------Serial Datastream
A9--------A14---------WHT/BLK-------Diagnostic Test
A10-------F13---------BRN------------Vehicle Speed Signal
A11-------B3----------BLK------------Sensor Ground
A12-------A1----------BLK/WHT-------ECM Ground 1

B1--------E16---------ORN------------Battery +12VDC
B2--------B12---------TAN/WHT-------Fuel Pump Signal
B3--------A5----------BLK/RED--------EST Ref Low
B5--------A4----------PPL/WHT-------EST Ref High
B6--------?-----------PPL-------------VATS(2*)
B7--------(3*)---------BLK-------------Knock Sensor
B8--------E12---------LT BLUE--------A/C Clutch Signal
B10-------E5----------ORN/BLK--------Park/Neutral Switch

C1--------(4*)-------BLK/PNK---------A.I.R. Converter Solenoid
C2--------E7---------BRN-------------A.I.R. Port Solenoid (Diverter in trucks)
C3--------A7---------LT GRN/BLK------IAC "B" Low
C4--------A8---------LT GRN/WHT-----IAC "B" High
C5--------A3---------LT BLU/WHT-----IAC "A" High
C6--------A6---------LT BLU/BLK------IAC "A" Low
C7--------(5*)-------LT BLU-----------High Gear Switch (In Auto Trans)
C8--------(6*)-------LT BLU-----------Power Steering Pressure Switch
C9--------(7*)-------PPL/WHT---------Crank Signal
C10-------B8---------YEL--------------Coolant Temperature Signal
C11-------B13--------LT GRN----------MAP Signal
C12-------B9---------Tan-------------MAT Signal(8*)
C13-------A15--------DK BLUE--------TPS Signal
C14-------E14--------GRY------------5 Volt Reference
C15/D14--A9---------DRK GRN--------Injector "2" Control
C16------E13--------Orange----------Battery (Inputed in place of Brake Switch for TCC to function)

D1-------A2---------BLK/WHT--------ECM Ground 2
D2-------B4---------PPL-------------MAP Sensor Ground
D4-------F11--------WHT------------EST Signal
D5-------B2---------TAN/BLK--------EST Bypass
D6-------A12--------TAN------------O2 Sensor Ground
D7-------A10--------PPL-------------02 Sensor Signal
D15/D16--A16-------DK BLUE---------Injector "1" Control

Swap Notes

(1*)= Use E2 for a shift light on a manual transmission or E10 for the TCC on an Automatic
(2*)= Supported by the PCM if optioned in the Prom on an UNKNOWN pin
(3*)= A.) Wire like 1995 P30 Step Van, ESC Module output to B7
(3*)= B.) Wire like 1995 C10 Truck, Bypass ESC (Blue to Brown) and use Late TBI/TPI 305/350 Knock sensor
(4*)= Air injection into converter not used on trucks, but PCM has several other un-used outputs (Tuning Valve, Idle Kicker)
(5*)= Not Used by PCM (I like to leave the small connector in place and pin in unused wires)
(6*)= Supported by PCM if optioned in the Prom on an UNKNOWN pin (1994-1995 2.2 S10 Wiring Diagram anyone?)
(7*)= Not used by PCM, Remove 3 amp "CRANK" fuse from fuse box and store in small connector)
(8*)= Supported by the PCM, but functionality will need to be enabled in the Prom

6965 ONLY- Will have a NC relay that the computer grounds to shut-off the A/C compressor when the engine is heavily loaded. The A/C will work either by removing the wire all-togather, or connecting it to pin E3 (A/C Cut-Off or CPI Tuning Valve output)

I would also like to mention that the orange Serial Data wire needs to be relocated from the top row, Pin "E" to the lower row, Pin "M". You will also need to scan the vehicle like a 1993-1995 G-Series Van, C-Series Truck, S-Series Blazer, etc with Auto transmission.

Finally, this is a trick Haulin@$$ taught me, if you have a wideband and are looking to get real-time AFR put into the datastream, hook the 0-5 volt signal into pin B16 (Linear EGR pintle position feedback). With some adaption to the ALDL Definition being used to decode the reading, you can get an AFR reading of 10-20:1 or so.

RFmaster

Fast355

This is a sticky material - nice summary!

//RF

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Thread stuck. I will also follow up with my source code at some point when its finally done.

JohnBlazeLTZ

Man...you guys are awesome! Thanks for taking the time to compile all the good stuff and keep it in order for all the interested people!

JB

RacerX13

Can this swap be done without chip burning equipment? I haven't gotten into diy prom yet, and I'm still trying to figure out which way to go. It's looks like this is the best ecm/pcm to use in the end, so would I be ahead to just start with this one? I have a manual trans- are there any stock memcals that would work? Would I be better off to just get the EBL and use it until I get comfortable with tuning? TIA.

BTW- I have a '95 C1500 4.3/4L60E with this pcm and there is noticeable difference in overall driveability between this and my Camaro.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

No stock memcals will directly work that I know of. Although you can get away with an automatic trans memcal.

BTW- I did the PCM swap with the addition of a 4L60E in my 1987 S10 Blazer. I loved the difference after tuning the 4.3 computer form my application. That little 2.8 actually pulls nicely and has a little punch now.

Joelkatdaddy

Hey, I am currently using a 7747 ecm to control my tbi 350 in a 91 s10 blazer with a 700r4. I have the tune fairly close from hours of datalogging and my ostrich. During my readings on here, I can see the truck pcm is the way to go. I understand all the pin changes that are needed, but I still have a few questions..

1. Will I still be able to use my Ostrich. It appears I can using a G1 adapter from craig.
2. Are there any other changes that will need to take place?
3. Eventually I would like to run a 4l60e, Fast355, you never mentioned any of the wiring for that.
4.Where can I find a stock 350 bin? I have searched and searched. I know it is out there, but I need a little assistance finding it.

I think that is all I have for now. Thanks in advance. You guys really amaze me with the ecm/pcm mods you pull off.
Joel

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

A.)You can still use your Ostrich, you just need to get the Memcal adapter from Moates, IIRC it is the G1. (Forget the designation he uses, but it piggybacks to the stock memcal and to the PCM)

B.) You need to obtain the later model TBI 350 knock sensor and bypass the ESC module. The changes you state need to be changed in the PROM, basically tell the PCM that it is controlling a Torque Converter clutch only in the 700r4 and not the whole valvebody of the 4L60E. Otherwise it will pop transmission codes like crazy.

C.)You are in luck on the 1991 S10 setup, you only have to add one wire from your DRAC to the PCM to control the shifting. Your 1991 should already have the 40 tooth reluctor and VSS on the tailshaft of the 700r4 that is in it now and an electronic cluster. I had to add a DRAC and Electronic speedo from a 1993 S10 to my truck. I would suggest finding a 1993 S10 DRAC for your 1991 S10.

I have the pin-outs for the wiring on the 4L60E and will post them up soon. There are 12 or 13 wires going to the transmission from the PCM. I built my transmision harness from a $15 transmission pigtail end from EFI Connection.

I have a plethora of stock .BINs for these PCMs. I think I have several 350s, 305, HD 350, 454, Export 350 Vortec TBI, 3 x 4.3 CPI, 4.3 TPI, Custom DIY 2.8 TBI, TPI 305, and a multitude of others, 2.2 S10.

Joelkatdaddy

Hey fast, i have everything i need to complete tis swap except a bin to start with. For now i will be running the tbi 350 and a 700r4. Do you think you could post a file for a bin that would be most compatible for my setup? Thank you
Joel

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

If it is a stock 5.7 TBI, I Sure do and also have a TunerPro XDF with all the TCC only stuff added in.

Joelkatdaddy

Hey fast, thanks, but when i try to unzip those files it says they are corrupt. Is this a problem on yours, or my end. Thanks again
Joel

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I forgot to mention this. Open it with Mozilla Firefox. The problem is on neither of our ends. It is an internet explorer problem.

If you would rather not mess with Mozilla Firefox, PM you Email address and I will send them directly to you.

Pelle

Just to make my mind absolutely clear:

In my case I want to convert a 7747 on a L05 to the 427 PCM.

I guess ANY 16197427 will work? Even a 427 from a 4.3 L35 for example?

Fast355, you wrote that truck PCM:s are "VERY similar", is it some pinout that differ or just cable colors?

Just to refresh my memory, the ESC module is that separate thing on a 7747, but on the 427 the ESC module is integrated in the PCM?

carls1982z

yes esc module is sep from ecm.on the 7747 -----And fast,, thos bin you posted, are they for 7747 ecm ????? i currently run a 7747 with prominator and tuner pro.--want to read and study them to what i have now

MarcusMandarino

Fast355

I found the info about PSPS on Chilton's, page 6-60, 2.2L > F8

Marcus

S105.7

Fast...any thoughts on whats a better bin to start with? im going to be adding this to my '92 RS. im gonna mod the injector constant for 61#ers, but i was wondering if there is a better spark curve to mess with. id think that the advance is pretty lame on a heavy full-size. im sure the camaro could use a much quicker curve. also, the PCM im getting is from a 4.3L Astro van. how is my MemCals knock module and such gonna workout with the 305?

for those who care, there are a few '427s on ebay right now for $25 plus $12 shipping.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The 4.3 knock filter stuff seems to work fine with my 305, which incedently I have upgraded to dual knock sensors, like the L35.

I would probably start with BRDW, which is the Export L31 TBI calibration.

You might be surprised how little additional timing the TBI F-car requires over a truck.

Thanks for the info, I am updating the pin-out now, I have since researched the HACK for the PSPS items. They just need to be enabled so that they will work. Might as well use it, if you have it available.

superbee

the converter wire needs to be updated to e11 still.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Since this has now been stickied, I no longer have access to edit it. I plan to repost this in PDF form, but haven't had the time too.

superbee

ok i dont know what to do, i cannot get my aldl to communicate with my laptop, before ecm swap i could using windaldl, now with ecm swap and using datamaster or tunerpro, i cannot communicate.

I have ground on a of aldl 12v on F, and on pin M i have my orange serial datasteam wire, I even tapped into it at the aldl connector and ecm and it ohm'd out perfect. IS there anything else im missing??? Only other thing i can think of is my aldl to usb cable from aldlcable.com is jank right now....

Help please.

S105.7

delete

RFmaster

Hey Fast355

I was cruising local JY (it was 50% off days) and came across three Venduras 2500 and one burb 1500. Long story short I pulled 3 PCM's of the following flavors:
16168625 BHAZ (from the burban)
16197427 BPRY (from vendura)
16197427 BNKM (from vendura)
and one pig tail for ease of re-pinning. Now I need a new project... hehe

//RF

morgsie

iTrader: (1)

Looking to upgrade my '89 Caprice to a '7427 and swap in a 4L60E but stuck on which year trans I should get. Can the '7427 control the mid-'95+ 4L60E with the PWM-contrilled TCC, or will I have to go with a 93/94 non-PWM version?

Thanks.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I just saw this post, but the 7427 WILL control a 1995+ PWM 4L60E and did so from the factory. For .BINs equipped with PWM, look for the following.

BJXA = 4.3 V6
BHMC = 305 V8
BJYN = 350 V8

FWIW- The 60E core I just scored for my 83 Van is a PWM 13 wire unit from a 1995 Impala SS.



Also take note here, if you have a 2004R in that Caprice, the tailhousing from the SS has an additional mount that is in the same location as a TH400 or 2004R.

morgsie

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info Fast355! My Caprice came with a 700-R4 (it's a cop car w/ the L05) so it should be a bolt in affair for the 4L60E. I'm also looking for a 4L60E out of an Impala SS or 9C1 of the same vintage so good to know that the PWM will work with the '7427.

Thanks again!

96LT4c4

subscribed

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Fast,

If you want to edit this thread still, let me know by posting. I think you should have access again once I unstick the thread. I can also attach additional files to it if you wish...

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I will re-look into it as soon as I get the time. Work, School, and chores around the house have all my time taken now days.

drb930

Subscribed!

greatwhite

Can someone confirm that a 7427 from a 4.3 will run a 350?

Ie: knock, limp mode, etc....

91rscammie

iTrader: (2)

A little confused. I have a lo3 camaro and some upgrades. Would it be better to do this swap or the newest ebl to tune. If it is better to do this then what exactly is needed?

avst03

EBL is the user friendly upgrade for your ECM you would need the EBL board installed and a laptop.

If you upgrade to a TBI PCM you could upgrade to a fully electronic trans later on. You need the TBI PCM with the proper Memcal, PCM connectors, knock sensor to match the PCM, Memcal adapter to run a flash instead of a stock prom chip. flash programmer to read/write your flash or stock prom and a laptop.

For both you could use the software TunerPro to edit your bin and read/write to your flash chip.

It depends on how mild or wild your engine setup is if you don't plan to switch to a Etrans but plan mods to your engine then I think EBL would be the way to go.

If you wanted to run a Etrans then I would go with the TBI PCM. The TBI PCM is a big upgrade over the earlier ECMs but I think it has a steeper learning curve.

I ran a 1227747 ECM then switched to the 16197427 PCM but my goal is to run the 16197427 with a 85mm MAF sensor


Mike...

91rscammie

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the good info!

morgsie

iTrader: (1)

Hey Mike, I am doing a similar swap to you. Plan is to swap to the '7427 and run a MAF in my '89 Caprice. Then eventually swap in a 4L60E. I am currently located in Vancouver, would be helpful to have some one to collaborate with, especially if you've done you're swap already. Shoot me a PM if interested.

-Taylor

uraijit

Any more details on what would need to be changed in in the definition files, in order to use the wideband? I'm running without an EGR already, but I'm running a 127747 which, obviously, does not have a B16. Is there another pin that this can go to, when using the 127747?

I'm using WinALDL atm, but willing to change to whatever else.

Thanks for the awesome post! I've spent hours trying to figure out how I could hook up a wideband, since I've found some for $18!

Just gotta figure out how to wire it up, and then get it feeding logging data.

Ultimately, I'd like to be able to have the wideband manage the ECM's funtion as well, since this system is actually in a boat (and narrow bands HATE water), so it's either wideband, or open-loop...

At any rate, getting the tuning done with wideband would be HUGELY helpful, since the boat would be pretty consistent in how the engine is run (no hills, no shifting, etc), basically run WOT until it gets on plane, and then pretty much the same speed every time (since we mostly use it to wakeboard, and occasionally tube behind).

Anyway, I digress. Any information on what else to do for the wideband would be extremely helpful.

drb930

Fast--

You mentioned-
Finally, this is a trick Haulin@$$ taught me, if you have a wideband and are looking to get real-time AFR put into the datastream, hook the 0-5 volt signal into pin B16 (Linear EGR pintle position feedback). With some adaption to the ALDL Definition being used to decode the reading, you can get an AFR reading of 10-20:1 or so.

Is there any way that i can do a wideband into my data stream with a TPI and a 7730 computer?

Thanks in advance for the great thread info,
Dave

drb930

Forgot to add signature, so you will have what i am working with-

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Yes you can run the wideband with teh 7730....Just look at he S AUJPv4 code....It has the wideband input on one of two terminals. I ran the 7730 with my TPI for a while too.

drb930

Do you know off hand where i would find that information?

Thanks,
Dave

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I know its on the Moates.net File section as well as on the DIY Prom forum here.

uraijit

What about the 127747?

uraijit

...was it something I said?

drb930

uraijit,

You are missing a number, but I think you mean 1227747, which is the ECM for the Corvette which is weather tight, but same as the 1227730 ECM.

Thanks,
Dave

uraijit

Ooops, you're right, it's a 1227747. So what pin would one need to wire the signal to for the 1227747, for a wideband sensor? Pin B16 doesn't exist on this badboy.

drb930

Not sure, I haven't had time to do the research, if you find out, let me know as that is the same computer as mine.
Although I am running the NVSRAM with the S AUJPv4 code.

Are you burning chips?

Thanks,

Dave

uraijit

I've got an EEPROM programmer on the way, and thirteen 27sf512 chips to go with it.

Got a regular single transistor cable built, but decided to build the RS232 chip version, since I just trust it to be more reliable for logging. Still waiting on the RS232 chips to show up (ordered 10 of 'em for $8.50).

I should have my programmer early next week, and be burning immediately.

Already have a ballpark .bin worked up to throw in there.

drb930

Maybe you could burn a back-up chip for me?
I need one without the VATS enabled, I could e-mail the bin to you.
What is your setup, I might have something close if you have something similar to my signature.
By the way, which burner did you get?
Have you ever looked into the NVSRAM setup?

Thanks,
Dave

uraijit

Sure, I'll burn whatever you want. You supply the bin and the chip, and an envelope with pre-paid postage, and I'll be happy to burn it for you.

My burner is a lab EEPROM burner that will read/burn virtually any chip, including chips for PC BIOSes, arcade games, and all that good stuff; not a proprietary burner for ECU chips only, like most folks get for this sort of thing. I'm a unique gearhead, in that I'm also a nerd, so I wanted some flexibility with my burner (and I got it for cheaper than even the cheap burners that most people sell, like Moates, etc).



ETA: My setup is nowhere NEAR what yours is. It's in a boat. I'm running a 350 GM Goodwrench crate motor (Part number 12499529. It's 390HP/326FTLBS. I believe the cam is 222/222 (.450"/.460").

Exhaust is water-cooled manifolds, that dump out through the outdrive (read: HIGH FLOW). Intake/TB/injectors are all standard, off a '93 Chevy PU; 55lb? (orange) injectors.

No EGR, not VATS, no o2, no VSS, and the engine temp never gets much warmer than 140 deg (fresh water cooled).

My tune would DEFINITELY not be anywhere near your setup. I'll burn as many chips for you as you want though, as many times as you want for no charge, all you'll have to pay is the postage.

Also, no I haven't really taken a serious look at any NVSRAM. I honestly don't see a need. I can data log on my laptop, and burning chips is pretty easy as well. In fact, theoretically, I could burn chips while still out on the water... Emulation would be nice, but I'm not willing to spend that kind of money, on dying technology. I'll probably be moving to an MPFI system in the next couple of years, and I'll probably just go with a megasquirt controler...

Although, I've heard a rumor that these old ECMs can be used for MPFI? Maybe so? I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I just wanted to get my feet wet with the TBI, and move up to more advanced stuff later.

hadanLS6

Hi Everyone:

Just started looking at these TBI PCM posts (and the other threads on it) here a few days ago and this (8625, 7427) offers enough benefits over the C3 4288 that I am going to start looking for a PCM.
Plus start getting the things together to get into the datalogging, chip burning etc.
as I get the money.
You may think me crazy but I want to start out with my daily driver which is a 92 S10 4.3L TBI 4288 ECU auto 2wd stock except for 2.5 exhaust, 2002 Blazer front brakes and Blazer 8.6 rear end.
I figure on trying to find a 93 S10 at the upullit (have seen them and wondered about the PCM before I found these posts) with a 4.3L TBI auto and start from there. Looks like I would have to go from the ESC to the late model knock sensor, change PCM from the 4l60e to work with the 4l60 (700r4), make the PCM wiring harness adapter and it should at least run? Then I could go from there with other changes to the tables.
Had a GM tech1 for some time which I use when there is a problem and that is part of the reason for not getting into the datalogging chip burning before now.
Have a laptop and some computer skills and a basic idea about the process since I have read a lot of posts on different boards so please bear with me if I ask a question as I will probably have spent quite a bit of time searching before I post it.
Any info/gotchas before I go spend next weekend at the upullit looking for one of these PCM's and the PCM connectors. I already have a bad 4288 to unsolder those connectors for the wiring harness adapter.
Also any advise on the most cost effective way to go on the cables, chip burner, software would be helpful also.

Thank You
Gary

uraijit

* Build your own cable. http://www.robertisaar.co.cc/web_images/max232_aldl.pdf

* Use TunerPro for software (free) http://www.tunerpro.net/downloadApp.htm

* And buy a TOP853 programmer off Ebay. The programmer is about $50 shipped, and will burn just about any chip out there.
http://cgi.ebay.com/top853-USB-unive...item25574cabd6