olds88

Hello third gen, long time lurker, first time poster! I used to drive an 90 Pontiac with an L03 so I think I sorta belong I really miss that car, beautiful shade of red and I had the flaming chicken custom painted on the hood . Some old lady broadsided the car a few years ago totaling it.

There seems to be a number of people here with some very extensive technical knowledge, which is why I'm posting here. I have a 91 Caprice Estate (currently powered by an L03) that I'd like to swap a bigger motor into to make a "Superwagon" of sorts. I have about $18k worth of budget for the engine part of this project and I have another vehicle to drive (recently purchased a Chevy Avalanche!!) so lengthy work isn't an issue. I also do have the ability to tow the car around if needed.

I have a fairly high degree of technical expertise, but not too much experience with Chevy small blocks, my experience is mostly limited to Oldsmobile V8s so I thought I'd ask for a bit of advice before getting into it.

As the thread indicates, I'm considering the following engine choices for my Caprice
1) Crate LS3
2) Crate 454 Big Block
3) Crate ZZ383 Small Block

I'd obviously want to use a TBI unit on the 454 or 383, but I'd be using port injection on the LS3.

So my question is this. Of the three motors which will likely be the easiest to get up and running with? How much of my existing equipment can be reused?

Can a 4L60 handle a 400hp/400+ft-lbs engine?

Ideally I'd like the car to put out 400hp+ and run high-13s.

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me!

RFmaster

Hey olds - welcome on board.

Well, you pose an interesting question that's worthy of a scratch! But, let me toss you a back question - why do you want LS3? Yes, it is a vette motor, with all the nice attributes, including a price tag to boot. Did you consider L76/L92 truck engines coupled to 6L80-E trany from a late model truck or Escalade? The L92 can be probably had for a lot less money that can be used to purchase a beefer trany. The 'superwagon' is probably tipping scales just a hair or two over 5000lb - so it is best to have a power plant-tranny combo capable of moving this estate in a rapid fashion.
If I was doing this swap I would look for a complete engine-trany PCM combo including harness (having a complete donor would be a nice). I would look for recked late model 'burb or 2007 Cadillac Escalade which has 6.2 L RPO L92. L92 was factory rated 403 hp and 417 ft·lb in the Cadillac and back-up by a very beefy 6L80-E! BTW 4L60-E was rated to handle up to 360 ft·lbf - with updates and performance parts it can probably handle more, but I would always wonder.
Here is the link for 4L60 -4L80 comps:
http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...opy/index.html

Get some pricing first and see where you may end up. Do not forget auxiliary stuff - fuel system, PCM, exhaust, engine mounts, etc.

//RF

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

I like the LS* motor idea. I think RFmaster has the best solution, I've liked the idea of taking the truck motor and possibly mixing/matching heads and things. Or, the LS7.

rocko350

Look on jegs website for "Blueprint Engines" crate 496 bbc. Its about 5500 dollars and puts down 550 ft lbs torque. I built mine before it was available, go figure. Call CPT transmissions in Delaware, or North Carolina as the scecialize in od trans builds for heavy cars with big power. A rear from a l99 9c1 police cruiser gets you 3.23 gears,posi, and rear disc brakes as well. Ebl flash,wideband, lots of tuning, then go eat every magnum,r/t charger and mercury marauder you can find. Also WELCOME TO ANOTHER 91 CAPRICE OWNER!

P.S. keep the tbi

RFmaster

Oh yes sir that 496 CID is one sweet cherry pie!

Let see it is rated for 480 HP / 550 ft-lb across power band. Felling this combo with TBI will take some doing - probably 4 injector TBI monster!

Basic calculations, if we assume at a BSFC of .45:

480 * .45 = 216 pounds of fuel per hour (lbs/hr).

Then factor in a maximum of 85% duty cycle for the injectors:

216 / 0.85 = 254 bs/hr

2x injectors -> 127 lbs/hr/injector
4x injectors -> 63.5 lbs/hr/injector

2x Injector TBI
454 CID were equipped with 46 (@30PSI), 75 & 81 lbs/h @ 13PSI. BBC TB sport 2" bores and can flow 645 CFM which may limit top end for this engine.

Since there are no 127 lbs injectors the nearest suitable BBC injector is rated at 81 lbs. A bump in fuel pressure is required.

(127 / 81)^2 * 13 = 32 psi which is on the upper side of safe operating fuel pressure. Meanwhile to keep injector pulse duration reasonable (not too short) at idle fuel pressure should be lowered considerably - enter VRFPR and EBL.

4x Injector TBI can use stock 350 injectors and as long TB can flow air you should be fine.

There is an extreme monster TBI link on this board - a good read.
//RF

kdrolt

TBI injectors in the (?) 94-95 454 SS pickup used a factory 28-32 psi setting. So 32 psi really isn't on the upper side of safe operating pressure.

On the original swap question: LSx and bbc have been swapped into Bcar sedans and wagons before, but this isn't the best forum for those swaps. The Impala SS forum would be.

olds88

Thanks for the input folks!

@RF, I never considered a Vortec truck motor but after reading your post I started looking at the L92 I've changed my mind on the LS3. The LS3 just doesn't offer many advantages to offset is vastly larger price tag. I do like the idea of using the 6L80 trans as well.

My wagon's curb weight is about 4500lbs. The B-wagons aren't nearly as heavy as their size implies.

@rocko,
That bbc is a monster and RF is right. That would require quite the TBI setup.

I wasn't aware that 9C1s had rear disc brakes. I'm not sure how vital that would be to me. The B-wagons come stock with alot beefier of a rear than the sedans did. I already have a 3.23 posi 9" rear diff.

And if I do a bbc or crate sbc (non LS*) I fully intend on keeping a TBI setup.

@kdrolt,
From what I've noticed folks here seem more knowledgeable about TBI issues related to engine swaps. Plus they have some irrational love of the LT1 over there. I'll ask the folks over at the ImpySS forums too though .

kdrolt

All 94-96 9C1s had rear disc brakes (I owned a 94 9C1). I agree on the 8.5" rear comment (my 93 RMW also has the same GU5 3.23 rear end).

I also agree on the TBI issues as it relates to swaps..... but when it comes to general knowledge of engne swaps into the 1977-1996 B platform, there is no better web place than the Impala SS forums.

FWIW my neighbor (in northern MA) did a 454 swap into a 91-93 Olds CC wagon. He used the L29 intake to keep the port fuel injection that it offered, but it was a serious airflow impediment at higher engine speeds; I he had it chassis dyno'd (and DIY tuned) -- it was great on torque but the power output was deficient, based on the cam/heads/exhaust on the car. That's the L29 manifold (basically a small CSA runner TPI).

The L29 intake looked factory under the hood and the torque response was superb, but it was choking the engine at speed. The owner will eventually do something different, and it might be TBI (something that he is easily capable of doing). HTH.

Killerzracing71

you should post on impalassforum.com

some guy over there did a 468 BB in his caprice with an EBL he lives in MD close to where i stay but i dont know him personally

do the 454 that would be awesome

rocko350

^^^thats me. Its why i suggested it. Kdrolt's buddies car is the one that inspired my swap, but i don't have the ebl yet. Still running the 16136965 ecm. The engine is back out of car for chassis work,and th400 swap(going full race). I also agree that you need to check out the impala sight, however it seems to be going down more frequent than....................

However, there is a guy over there that sells engines taken out of cars that get crash tested. last i checked he had 2 all aluminum 6.2l l92/lq4s don't remember the exact designation, for about $2200 for a long block. thats a foundation for serois hp if thats the goal. i have a friend here at a speed shop in frederick that has a whole takeout 8.1l froma pickup that got rolled, i think he even has the 4l80, with the computer,belt drive, and wirng harness for $5,000. Of course he had this available after i built my 496.