TBIThrottle Body Injection discussion and questions. L03/CFI tech and other performance enhancements.
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Hello everyone,
I have an 89 Camaro and I was wanting to see if you guys can give me some input. I just had a 350 dropped into the car. Its been bored .040 over, has an internally balanced crank connected to a 62 'vette flywheel, tpi "vortec" heads, 305 tbi, 305 headers with an exhaust leak coming from the left manifold and rigged exhaust, smog pump delete, 455 cam????? with .238 ex/in?????, 305 comp, and carb air cleaner assembly. So after throwing a year of savings into this swap the car seems as slow as before with the 305 which is really disappointing!
So heres my questions to you guys
1. Will this work and is it worth it (i will buy injectors and pod from a 350): http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/454-3...sories?afsrc=1
2. Is long tube headers worth it and can i buy a premade y-pipe for it? I exempt emmisions
3. Can someone tell we whats a 455 (not bigblock) cam that has a .238 in/ex? Has anyone seen this cam before?
4. Im planning on slapping a t56 in and will the current flywheel work, because the flywheel HAS to be unbalanced?
5. Finally I know the chip has to be replaced and that will free up some ponies but without knowing the cam what do I do? Can i just take a chip from a stock 350, would that work?
A lot of people settle for short tube headers for clearance & routing. A few do go with long tubes & I will let them comment.
Those cam numbers are probably .455" lift and 238 degrees of intake & exhaust duration. We could tell you more about the cam if you tell us what brand and p/n it is.
As for the chip questions, start reading the TBI section stickies and the DIY-tune section stickies... they are very informative.
I dont think you/we need to know about the cam. It would be helpfull to determine the HP potential of your engine. We could guess and then fuel it accordingy to meet that #.
Lets say it is 300 engine HP.
this calc will let you determine the fueling ...http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/ben_...ctorsizing.xls
this has to be fixed B4 you do anything "with an exhaust leak coming from the left manifold" that will really cause issues with NB02 feedback.
"Can i just take a chip from a stock 350" SURE that will get you closer BUT car still wont be as good as it can be. Make sure it is for your tranny. If you like tbichips.com can help but will need to provide him some datalogs B4 and after he makes corrections.
Thanks Ronny and 327chevy, i replaced the tbi today with 5235206 injectors and 50mm bore tbi, previously being 5235279 inj. and stock 42mm bore tbi. The blades BARELY cleared the stock manifold but it did with some gasket trimming. The car is alot faster now and is kicking real nice but between 500-2000rpm it runs like junk. Alot of jolting and half/*** acceleration. What im hoping for is that a new chip will fix this since i still have the 305 chip in my car. Since I am lost about the cam and heads and i dont have money to go and have it dissasmbled and inspected i went ahead and bought this prom, tell me what you guys think. (i know its for GM trucks but arnt all tbi systems the same AND the 350 i got came from a 69 pickup)-http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/350-t...1%7C240%3A1318
I also bought a spacer that goes between the manifold and tbi unit mainly so i can get rid of the collar.
Your ECU is 8746. I dont believe you can run a 7747 chip in your ECU. You can however run a 7747 in your car with that chip. You should have bought a cop car chip (caprice 1989-1992 L05 350 cid) for 8746.
Bucking jolting is not at all unexpected as tune is so far off. Most likely you will see a CE light after extended operation.
5206 injectors are 80 lbs. Stock 305 I think is 45. So 75% more fuel results.
350 is 15% larger on CID. I supect you are way overfueled. A larger TBI unit will make it 2X more difficult to tune but will do no harm.
Dont worry about cam or heads. Just tune it.
Check Ebay for pocket programmer 2 see Moates for eeproms and make a ALDL cable(not that hard) and the laptop. you are where I was day I modded engine.
Your ECU is 8746. I dont believe you can run a 7747 chip in your ECU. You can however run a 7747 in your car with that chip. You should have bought a cop car chip (caprice 1989-1992 L05 350 cid) for 8746.
Bucking jolting is not at all unexpected as tune is so far off. Most likely you will see a CE light after extended operation.
5206 injectors are 80 lbs. Stock 305 I think is 45. So 75% more fuel results.
350 is 15% larger on CID. I supect you are way overfueled. A larger TBI unit will make it 2X more difficult to tune but will do no harm.
Dont worry about cam or heads. Just tune it.
Check Ebay for pocket programmer 2 see Moates for eeproms and make a ALDL cable(not that hard) and the laptop. you are where I was day I modded engine.
No the 5206 is the 55#/hr injectors i actually think im running too lean so i think it be best to pump up my fuel pressure to 18psi. i saw this on ebay as far as the chip is concened so I can use this chip:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3AIT&viewitem=
Em I going to need anything else to make this ecm swap successful?
7747 is a truck ECU. Often used to run an EFI system on a prior carb car, Jeep comes to mind, or to replace(like me) an early puter(84 Vette) that has a program that was not hacked. My first ECU was 7747. I burned a lot of chips old fashioned way. 8746 I believe for all platforms supports IAT. That is a good thing. I addded IAT last season and the tune improved. Why not keep your ECU and try a cop car chip or tbichips.com?
7747 is a truck ECU. Often used to run an EFI system on a prior carb car, Jeep comes to mind, or to replace(like me) an early puter(84 Vette) that has a program that was not hacked. My first ECU was 7747. I burned a lot of chips old fashioned way. 8746 I believe for all platforms supports IAT. That is a good thing. I addded IAT last season and the tune improved. Why not keep your ECU and try a cop car chip or tbichips.com?
id love to get the cop car injectors/chip but where? No one seems to be selling them.
7747 is a truck ECU. Often used to run an EFI system on a prior carb car, Jeep comes to mind, or to replace(like me) an early puter(84 Vette) that has a program that was not hacked. My first ECU was 7747. I burned a lot of chips old fashioned way. 8746 I believe for all platforms supports IAT. That is a good thing. I addded IAT last season and the tune improved. Why not keep your ECU and try a cop car chip or tbichips.com?
Ask him for price on just the chip. Same on spring. spring also available top down solutions I think 13-16 lbs or so. GM TPI pump is an upgrade from stock TBI pump. that is what I run.
Ask him for price on just the chip. Same on spring. spring also available top down solutions I think 13-16 lbs or so. GM TPI pump is an upgrade from stock TBI pump. that is what I run.
Top down solutions spring will hold 22psi easy.
Stay away from xtremefi ebay seller. "Dctrumpet" not sure I spelled right he is tgo member, turbocity and cfm thech will be way beter places to shop.
I would use the stock tb to get it tuned first then ad the bigger one, a maching 50mm bore intake manifold would be nice too.
Top down solutions spring will hold 22psi easy.
Stay away from xtremefi ebay seller. "Dctrumpet" not sure I spelled right he is tgo member, turbocity and cfm thech will be way beter places to shop.
I would use the stock tb to get it tuned first then ad the bigger one, a maching 50mm bore intake manifold would be nice too.
Honestly im sick and tired of these chips/proms whatever, I just want to stick a chip in it and never have to worry about it again. It doesnt have to run PERFECT but if it can eliminate the bucking and jolting under load and low RPMS and pick up in the hP department ill be happy, im only looking into 300-350hp. If the cop car chip can give me atleast 300hp ill be very happy. Thanks anyways
I can only recommend DIY-PROM. Read sticky "Step on in" by BP Monte. read what others have experienced with buying chips. There is a strong chance you will be disappointed.
Do more research B4 you spend $$
I can only recommend DIY-PROM. Read sticky "Step on in" by BP Monte. read what others have experienced with buying chips. There is a strong chance you will be disappointed.
Do more research B4 you spend $$
I have one question, will the cop car chip make the car run better then how it runs now, with the 305 chip?
You need to be able to adjust your fuel pressure, and then dial it in according to the injector size.
EBL you just plug it at the place of the ECM, you get many bins includet that you can load and try out. And not to mention how easy it is to dial in fueling mods. It also has a VE learn, no way a coustom chip will get it so close. Also stock ECM is wery slow. If you have a laptop dont hesitate, you will figure it out quick.
Get back wenn u have the EBL for precise directions.
I have one question, will the cop car chip make the car run better then how it runs now, with the 305 chip?
Its a lottery, "maybe". For a coustom chip that is not garbage you will need to datalog send your logs for each chip, be able to adjust FP and know injector size.
At that point why would you not dial in the changes by your self?
EBL = no chips, you have 8 banks you can load 8 bins, then switch to wichever you like more in 0.5 second. To change the fueling values in the bin takes 30-120 seconds depending on how fast you are, after that 1 second to (flash) load it in one of the 8 banks.
Then you set up for a VE learn and go for a ride.
Its a lottery, "maybe". For a coustom chip that is not garbage you will need to datalog send your logs for each chip, be able to adjust FP and know injector size.
At that point why would you not dial in the changes by your self?
EBL = no chips, you have 8 banks you can load 8 bins, then switch to wichever you like more in 0.5 second. To change the fueling values in the bin takes 30-120 seconds depending on how fast you are, after that 1 second to (flash) load it in one of the 8 banks.
Then you set up for a VE learn and go for a ride.
Im interested in the EBL, but explain it to me like im a five year old, cause if i understand correctly you can adjust your replaced ECM by just fusing with the switches on it until the car seems to run better????
dynamicefi.com Read up as much about it as you can then come back with specific questions. EBL is an ECU much like the one in your car but advanced technology. The creator suggests it will run the Star Ship Enterprise but that is a stretch. It will create improved chips or .bins as you drive. It still requires you to understand "fuel management" and do some studying.
I second the EBL. I know that you want to buy a magic chip that will work best for your car. EBL is a magic ECM that will learn your fuel tables and taylor it to your car. You will learn so much by getting one. After a solid couple tuning sessions you will be close, then you can leave it alone for however but still have the ability to change it later for no charge.
Ok guys, i thnik im going to head this dirrection, i think im going to buy a 7747 comp from a 1991 firebird thats for sale on ebay:http://http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotor...id=p2759.l1259
On the description it say automatic transmission but the 7747 chip i have right now is proggramed for a manual so i think it would be ok, right? I just dont want to spend anymore of my hard earned money on the computer crap. I was interested in the EBL but i dont have a laptop and do not plan on getting one anytime soon. So im stuck in a rut, Cant buy an ebl cause i dont have money or laptop, stick with the 7747 ecu and put in the hot chip i bought and hope it runs better? I don't think i have a choice, thanks guys for the much needed help.PS: the guy that I bought the 7747 chip said "No refunds", go figure, i spent $137 on it.
ECU can accept either chip. BUT if you have a manual trans then the chip you bought would be the correct on to use. Maybe someone knows how the spark table varies from a heavy truck to a lighter weight camaro. The 7747 chip may have a less aggressive spark table. 7747 is a truck computer not from a 1991 Pont Firebird.
