Besides, not everyones goal when building a motor, or car for instance is to see how fast it can go in a 1/4 mile! I dont race my car alot, but most of my races involve interstates, exit to exit. Right now my little 305 may not be *** off the line but on the interstate its got a little attitude. EX--- I raced a friend of mines 70 nova he had just got with the big bad 350 in it with a few mods. Keep in mind im runnin bone stock with the 5 speed. After many hours of listining to how bad his car was and that how it would make me blow "my little 305 up" I decided to try him. We go to the Hwy 45 in Mississippi which at night where were at is no cars hardly. We get on, stop dead even and take off....I admit for the first 100 yards he got a little edge on me....then when I hit 3rd BYE BYE 4th....not a chance. I got the 110 speedo and my car dont shut off and I know that thing was buried for at least 20 secs. Moral off this story.... In my opinion a 1/4 mile just dont tell the whole story of what ya got. It takes alot more than a big motor to win a race....its all about tuning and parts setup. My $.02

g

Funny...4 grand a few months ago would have hooked me up with a used ZZ4 crate motor INSTALLED and still left me a few hundred to use on the intake, injection, and PROM work.

If you want to stay 305 and you want to stay NA, then I'd look into stroking it to 334. 400 crank, some decent pistons, new con rods, and get the block .030 over. 1 g.

But if I had 4 gs to drop I'd build from the bottom up. I'd give 'er the full spohn suspension make over (lcas, subframes, torque arm, lca relocation brakets), Eibach springs, iroc rear sway bar, and some bfg drags. Thats 1 grand right there. (total 2 gs)

Vortec head package from sdpc with intake. $700 ($2700)

LT4 hot cam $200 ($2900)

Exhuast (slp headders, catco cat, any cat-back) $800 ($3600)

Holley 670 or 454SS 2" throttle body $150 ($3750), maybe cheaper. I've see a holley 670 with projection manifold go for 200 with injectors.

10 or 9 bolt 3.42 / 3.45 rear with rear disc $300 ($4050).

Add $200 for **** you didnt anticipate and your grand total is $4250 assuming you can install and tune yourself.

Or instead of buying the 334 assembly you could get a ZZ4 bottom end for $1200. I know you dont want to do that, but hell that would take a ton of abuse.

I don't have the tools to install and tune
at the moment(I'm away for college). Most likely this will be done
at a shop.

Chuck
Are you talking a caomplete shortblock or just the rotating assembly?
On sdpc2000 its 1889.95
If I could get one for 1200, I'd definitely build myself one powerfull 350

ZZ4 shortblock, AFR heads, custom grind cam, Edelbrock RPM performer, holley 750 (guess you could still go TBI if ya like ) ,
I'd say thats good for about 500HP
Estimation with Comparing it to ZZ430.

Add a $1600 roots blower to that you could get 650HP I bet.
Of course, you'd have to build up your trans and rear , its always something isn't it??

Oh, musta read that wrong, you're right $1900 for the ZZ4 bottom end, but the L98 bottom end is $1200. Still aint that shabby...

You could really put together a ZZ4 bottom end, vortec heads, and the LT4 hot cam for like $2700. With new parts all around except the cam... that's a hell of a fresh budget build up right there. Or do the L98 bottm end and only spend $2100.

i just built a 350 for 600 bucks. that will have 300hp.

but i understand and respect the fact that you want to keep the 305.

do the same thing as the Home built bitchen 305 buildup that sport truck did and add stroker kit to what they did, and you should hit a nice 350hp mark. But like i said, thats about all you can get, UNLESS you get forged pistons rods and crank. splayed caps too. add a dome to your pistons probably tough with vortecs but could be done with the world 305 s/r torquers, throw in some nos or supercharger. you could probably hit 400hp with 305. but thats some cash, probably more than 4g's.

I wish you the best of luck.

I agree with the others though, spend a bit on the suspension and some on the engine. you will be glad you upped the suspension later when you do have too much power and need to get it to the ground.

Less talk, more action. I say lets quit debating about it and lets see what he can do. Over the years I have been here I have never seen anyone take the 305 seriously except for Tim (NJ Speedster) Camaroracer1992 (Joe) had the fastest 305 TBI here and he even gave up on it. There even was a guy on here with a 305 TBI with a blower on it and i think he ran a 14.2 in the 1/4 mile. Duke (Joe) wanted to build a 427 Dual TBI system....he got sick of the TBI computer real quick and went carb....

I say go for it man (even though I think its a horrible investment and you should be putting that money into realestate or mutal funds so u have a **** load of money in the future to build three 11 second thirdgens) and see what happens. Good luck.

Hey guys, you need to look at your options here. What do you want power, fast timeslips, or a fast 305? I myself built up my L03 with about 1000 in mods in the intake, cam, full exhaust, etc. Well, after all that I managed to crack my head and I was going to look for a replacement. After looking at high performance heads that cost nearly 1k, I decided to just see what a 350 might run. Well, I found a dealer here, who will sell me a completely rebuilt 350 long block, for $900. Now, this engine puts out 75 more hp, and 90lbs more torque than our L03, and it's a cheap engine. You may spend money all day on your L03, and eventually get it into the 12's NA, but is it really worth it? I myself have already purchased the engine and are getting it installed in a few weeks. Now I may not be able to talk trash yet, but I feel the L03 is a piece of crap. It had bad designs all around, and I didn't even realize this till I noticed that family sedans could beat me in a race. The only real problem with the L03 is the bore...but it is so incredibly small, that there is no way that it could compare to a 350. Anyways, this is getting long. I say, go to speedomotors.com and get there 383 engine, pumping out 423hp and 437lbs of torque for only 2725. I want to see someone get an L03 that fast, cause that will be truly amazing. But if you want to be different, and waste money build up your L03. It's your choice.

Matt

Actually birdman,
there is a guy on this board who is
running 12.7 @109.5 mph N/A
and he did it with stock ported and milled
heads. No bull. There's just certain "tricks"
to the 305 that you must perform.
:hail: :hail: :hail:

Dude, what are the "tricks" you are talking about?
Fill us in!!

Don't take them from me,
take them from the source
He goes by Tim Burgess and you
can catch him on the electronics board

To: 87CobraKiller

Get lost. no flaming allowed.

ooops my bad got carried away

i say go to www.jegs.com and buy yourself a GM HO 350...only 330hp and 385lbs torque but thats more than the 305 will ever see and that motor is 3199$ complete...only needs pullies (which you have) a set of headers and small stuff like that. then you may have a little bit of money left over to buy a new set of tires after you burn the back ones off :lala:

That's $3200.00 plus labor fees for the swap

I AM NOT GETTING A NEW ENGINE AS LONG AS
THE ONE I HAVE IS STILL GOOD.

AND YES I WILL MAKE WELL OVER 330HP!!!!

I guess I could repost what I said in the other thread, but let's just say I have a terrible headache.

yeah plus labor but me and my dad are gonna do it (hes done a few motors) so we should be alright...good luck making over 330hp with the lo3 without a power adder. my motor is still good but id really like to have a completely brand new motor since mine has 103k miles on it im sure its about her time. if not im gonna stick it in a s10 with n2o and run the piss outta it

you could always buy my 84 gmc sierra with over 400 horsies and skip past the camaro's and go for the cobra's and vette's like i do

Its night of the living dead! (threads)

I knew nothing a year ago. Wow.

Save, the money....
Or be a man, go to vegas, double up your money a few times, and buy a Malibu SS. Thats what i would have done if i had to do it over.

Leave the motor and exaust alone, spend no money on it. Drop the whole 4 grand into rims, tires, and top of the line complete suspinion and if nothing else forsure do a complete brake overhaul, rear disc included(Hell a good brake setup will take half of that money). That way you've got your 305 and a Chassis to withstand anything you could ever throw at it in the future. Then if you can't get them on take off, tell them to bring it in the cruves!!!! I think a great handling car would be the 5hit. Just my 2cts, Bobby
P.S. Then when the LO3 goes the car will be ready to handle what ever you throw at it!

i noticed someone mentioned a vacuum assisted adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Im a little confused here. I know our stock fuel pressure regulator is inside the throttle body, so how the hell would you install a vacuum assisted one in the stock location and run vacuum to it?

then do it.

no offense, i understand where you are coming from. but realisticly a 305 TBI is going to be pushing it to get 330hp. it will take some SERIOUS tuning, and the right combination of parts. and that is not even getting into the other mods to the car needed to make it actualy perform. to put it into perspective, i already have 4k into my car, guess what i run in the 1/4 still. granted i have yet to even touch the engine. it should put how much the platform you are building of off needs work to effecently and effectivly use the HP you give it.

also, i understand you plan to have a shop install this. they are going to charge you by the hour. think long and hard about which is going to take more hours of work. pulling the 305, then modifing it. or picking up a crate engine, pulling the 305, dropping the new one in. no assambly required, no machining. in the end having a shop do that is going ot be cheaper. call around and find out where you are going to get the work done, and talk to them about cost of diffrent options, as it applies to labor.

all of the parts listed here, make for good combos, but none of them are remotely stock. TBI uses a MAP sensing computer, and figures the amount of air based on that. it has no way of actualy reading the true air flow, so combos with head/cam changes in them need ALOT of tuning. who is going to tune this for you? did you figure the price of dyno tuning into your budget?

all i can say is welcome to the world of building performance cars. it costs LOTS of money, 4k may sound like a healthy chunk of change to a college student (no offense intended here) but it is just a drop in the bucket, when you are talkign about actualy really going fast.

this thread is rediculous, i almost didn't reply after such comments as:

now nothing screams boy racer like the above comments.

a little more tech for you:

physics, torque is a function of force x leverage (arm lenth) the force is directly effected by the pistons surface area which is the bore. the more area, the more force can be applied, assuming all things are equal. the leverage or arm lenght, is the distance from the center of the crank, to the mounting point of the rod. which is stroker. longer stroke = more leverage.

now HP is an equation based on torque / time (RPMs) the more torque at a given speed = more HP.

now given the two things stated, which is going to make more power.


4" bore with a 3.48" storke (read: Chevy 350)
or 3.725 inch bores, with a 3.48" stroke (read: Chevy 305)

there is no way around it, a 350 wins everyday.

--------------------------------
The Dewey Lama

Thanks Dewey,

I know what HP is and I know what torque is, just didn't know how to figure or explain them.
As I have listened I have learned a few things.
We are all different and have different ideas. We also have different driving forces. Mine for example is power. My car looks like a@@, I don't care I want it FAST. I am working on modding the 305, only because funds don't allow me to go where I want to with a 350.
When the funds are available, I will then drop an LT1 in and go from there.
Ride4me, dude do what you want. From an econimical stand point the 305 isn't worth it. However, if this is what you want to to then by all means go after it. Rebuilding the top end of the motor isn't that difficult and really doesn't require a shop full of exotic tools.
Spending money on the suspension, transmission, tires, and exhaust are definates. Hell, just the susp. mods alone will show an improvement.
This hobby we love and enjoy is all about being different, building your car, one point I disagree on is paying someone to do the work. When I was in high school my dad and I had a walnut tree for a shop, we worked in outside 'cause we didn't have a shop.
I'm starting to ramble, sorry for the length I have gotten a headache listening to everybody ignore what you have been saying.
Build the 305, get your 330 hp. I'm behind ya, if it doesn't go as well as you hoped....lesson learned if it does more power to ya.

Scoty

$4,000???? The answer to that is easy... 10 hookers, 2 handles of Jack Daniels, and rent a Ferrari.

Berlinetta, youre so immature.
Dont you know its ten handles of jack, and 2 hookers, not the other way around.

KD

IM sure he blew his money by now.

Buddy, I just bought a 350 4 bolt main complete with vortech heads, mild cam and edelbrock performer intake (i am swapping that out though for a air-gap intake) and edelbrock 600cfm carb (which I am swapping out for a demon 750 carb. Complete with internals (cast-iron) all for 1500 bucks and the engine is brand new. I hate it when people use that as an excuse "I don't have the funds for a 350" *(not saying your using it RSscotty but a lot of people do)
Add up all the little bull**** LO3 mods you have done to your car (and I am including everything from gaskets and bolt ons to a cam) and you will still be slow and wasted money that could have gone into a powerplant worth a damn.

This is a super old thread and how did it get brought up? Looks like I was saying the same thing back then that I am now. lol. Anyone who dumps big bucks into their 305 is a noob and will realize later how he messed up. I know I have.

Well I tell you what a@@wipe, all the little mods I've done or am going to do will add up to just under a grand, and that includes the exhaust and intake that I can use on the 350 that I am building this winter.

Oh did I mention that my car needs a valve job, and the l98 heads I got for FREE are what is going on istead doing a valve job on the ones I have now.

You are right about one thing it will still be slow, compared to what......what it is now or compared to what John Force drives.

No it won't be no big HP car or will it make it into single digits, but it will be a lot faster than it is now!!!

You have a lot of nerve flaming a member thats been here a lot longer than you have?

If your building a 350 this winter, why not use the money your going to spend on the LO3, and sink it into your winter project. Unless your using the L98 heads on the 350 your making, which if you put them on the 305 first would be a waste in money and time to tear them off.

What are the other mods you have planned for it.

building up a 305 tbi beyond basic mods and good base for a faster car is a waste of money. with tpi its not. my buddy has a 305 tpi that ran a 12.3 with a super charger.

sure he knows he will be a alot faster with a 350, thats why he is saving for 1. and he will probably get a decent amount of cash for the motor thats in his car now.

for $4000 i hope you swallowed your pride and did the smart thing and got a 350.

All I'm trying to say is that for pocket change I have gathered up most of what I need to rebuild the top end of my 305 which needs it anyhow. I have certain plans for my 350 and will be working on that this winter. I'm not going to do any machine work on the 305 besides porting the heads I have, and they are not l98 heads my bad. they are 305TPI heads.

The decisions I make are based on my needs and wallet, not what someone else has done or can do. The car won't be a srceamer I relize that but it will be faster than it is now.
Scoty

Dude, i want to thank you for correcting me. I dont know how i got so mixied up, lol.

A blistering 15.5-15.7 in the 1/4 mile faster. lol. Get your *** handed to you by local ricers still. Don't bother with the 305 if thats what your saying.

As for the 1,000 you have put into your 305. You say your gonna use the exhaust? Are you talking exhaust manifolds as well or just a cat-back? The primaries on a 305 exhaust manifolds should be 1-5/8. Hope your not putting those on your 350. And if your keeping TBI on that 350 then thats another huge waste. Stock 305TPI heads on a 350 you are building? Why are u doing that? Heads are the most important part of the engine when it comes to performance and your gonna throw on a set of 305 heads? Save up and get a decent set, not some stocker 305 heads with some backyard port job.

This is just advice. Your gonna do what you want and learn from your mistakes which is how we all learn. You don't need to get all pissed off because someone tried setting you in the right direction from mistakes they have made from the past too. But go ahead. Spend the 1,000 on the top end of your sweet 305 and then swap all those parts onto your 350 and see what happens. Post your times when you get everything together along with excuses to why it is running so slow. (60ft times, wheel hop, tuning, blah blah blah).

You're planning on spending $$$ on your LO3? That would have you a closer to a LT1 you want, but I guess ****ing with the 305 is better. I agree with Eric, and AS SOON as you get a 350 or any better engine you'll prolly see exactly where we are coming from.

I know where you guys are coming from and appreciate all the advise. I have a set of 305 tpi heads for nothing and an lt1 cam, that was about it. No I'm not staying with the stock exhaust I am going to headers and a catback, which if I understand correctly will fit the 350.

I will do a bit of tuning, (have a buddy with the prom burning equipment), and a better intake, that will also fit the 350. I can get a 350 tbi unit to do the ult. tbi mods for about 20 bucks.

I have a 350, and a pretty good idea of what I want to do to it. That I can't afford at this moment. I haven't really figured up what I am going to spend exactly on the 305, but it isn't going to be much. I am aware that there isn't much potential there.

If I could squeeze out another 40-50 hp out of the 305 without killing the wallet then I would do it, if it can't be done, figuring I'm geting most of the parts dirt cheap then I wouldn't. As mentioned earlier the 305 needs a valvejob real soon, and I'm not going to spend teh money on the swirl-port heads.

Sorry for the long post but you guys seem so intent on jumping down my throat 'cause I want to build whats in front of me.
Scoty