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__________________ 1991 Turquoise Metallic Corvette Coupe with Saddle Tan interior L98/700R4
Greenwood Signature Rear Spoiler
OZ Monte Carlo Rims
Otherwise pretty much stock 48K original miles
GM ASEP graduate
Saturn C-technician
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But you can easily get them flowing 225cfm@.500 in. and 140cfm@.500 ex. by following the instructions at the end of my sig.
__________________
1986 CAMARO SPORT COUPÉ
5.0 Liter 305 hp
Hooker 2460 Shorty headers, mandrel bent 3" exhaust
Walker Quiet-Flow muffler and dual 2 1/2" pipes
Edelbrock Performer intake with 1406 600 cfm carburetor
Ported and polished 305 "601" heads à la F-Bird'88
305 HO dual snorkle aircleaner with K&N filter
Crane PowerMax 260 camshaft (.427 - .454) and lifters
Proform HEI coil and module, MSD cap, rotor and 8.5 mm Superconductors
700R4 with TransGo Stage2 shift kit and Derale 12000 lb. gvw trans cooler
3.42 gears, KYB Gas-A-Justs and Z-28 front and rear anti-sway bars
Goodyear Eagle HP (200km/h) 225x60R15s on 15x7 styled aluminum slots
T-Tops, A/C, tilt, cruise, variable wipers, power steering, brakes, windows, locks and rear hatch
Alpine CDA-9827 4 channel AM/FM CD-MP3 receiver with Pioneer and Rockford-Fosgate speakers. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _____________ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Yea verily, and he sore smote the smog heathens from his smallblock Chevrolet, even from the air pump unto the converter.... Book of Todd 3:05 Regardez mon coupé formidable ici!!! http://www.thirdgen.org/rides/index....ew&rideid=8338
The only thing I could find was that they are supposedly "comparable" to L98 heads. Of the data I did find, it is apparent that the heads respond well to 1.94 intake valves and bowl poerting. Apparently, the 1.50 exhaust valves are adequate with a dual pattern cam grind. Lunati has a web page outlining their build of a 343HP 305 using '416 heads and 1.94 intakes, with a little port work. That's pretty respectable for a 305 and stock heads: http://www.hioutput.com/tech/343hp/343hp.html
__________________ Later,
Vader
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Everything should be made as simple as possible, and not one step simpler."
Originally posted by Makaveli ive wondered this too... id also like to see how they flowed compared to the garbage 187 TBI heads... but thats a whole nother thing. heres a ttt lol
all i know is that the TBI heads are completely different
416's only have perimeter-style valve cover bolts. They were also used on '85-'86 LB9 TPI engines. All SBC heads from 1987 have centerbolt heads. All of the Lb9 engines from 1987 use 081 castings. '87 and '88 Monte SS's probably used the same heads as well. I don't know what casting '87 LG4 heads, but they are not the same as the TPI castings. 081's and 416's can flow very nicely with a little port work and bigger valves.
Last edited by RedFirebird; 12-25-2002 at 01:26 AM.
did not know 416 heads were this decent- as far as stock goes- iveyehave only kept one pair and only cuz i stuck them on a block for storage and have recently started unbolting them to scrap them, hmm maybe i should keep em ? i normally throw away ALL parts smaller than 350, hmmm..
what about 14022601 heads in 81 ? im about to toss a pair of them too, nothing wrong with them other than they are not 350 or 400 heads, so very pointless to keep also..
thanks
Last edited by Randy82WS7; 12-26-2002 at 08:38 AM.
Originally posted by Fast68 did not know 416 heads were this decent- as far as stock goes- iveyehave only kept one pair and only cuz i stuck them on a block for storage and have recently started unbolting them to scrap them, hmm maybe i should keep em ? i normally throw away ALL parts smaller than 350, hmmm..
what about 14022601 heads in 81 ? im about to toss a pair of them too, nothing wrong with them other than they are not 350 or 400 heads, so very pointless to keep also..
thanks
601 heads are what I used. They make loads of hp when ported and polished
OK ... for comparison then, does anyone have flow data on the S/R Torquers and Vortechs?
I was seriously thinking about the 416's - 'cause I too have a set lying around. Then I started thinking was the trouble of porting (especially since I have no idea what the hell I'm doing) worth it, or should I just spend the $$ on new heads.
And I know Sitting Bull - you state that any idiot can do the work, but after reading your thread 10 times +, and reading the instructions from Standard Abrasives, and reading the book "How to build and modify SBC Cylinder Heads" by Vizard, I am still unsure as to exactly where the material is being removed from - and the pics aren't doing me much good 'cause I can't tell where the difference is between them.
Originally posted by camaronewbie OK ... for comparison then, does anyone have flow data on the S/R Torquers and Vortechs?
I was seriously thinking about the 416's - 'cause I too have a set lying around. Then I started thinking was the trouble of porting (especially since I have no idea what the hell I'm doing) worth it, or should I just spend the $$ on new heads.
And I know Sitting Bull - you state that any idiot can do the work, but after reading your thread 10 times +, and reading the instructions from Standard Abrasives, and reading the book "How to build and modify SBC Cylinder Heads" by Vizard, I am still unsure as to exactly where the material is being removed from - and the pics aren't doing me much good 'cause I can't tell where the difference is between them.
According to the flow bench work F-Bird'88 has done with 081 and 416 castings, he is surpassing factory L31 Vortecs. His latest set can support over 500 hp. No factory Vortec heads can do that, period. As for the SRs, I think they flow a little less than Vortecs from the factory.
All I can tell you is once you start on the work of porting you will see what needs to be done. It becomes evident that you are removing casting flash and flaws, and generally just smoothing the transition from one area to the next, while opening up the intake entrances to fit the gasket. After doing 8 of each in a row, you will go back to the first few and make touchups because you now have a good feel for the tool and how it works. It is like sculpting. You can't ever learn how unless you try--and then you find it ain't so hard after all
Originally posted by Pablo I agree with sitting bull,
Once you get started porting everything you read becomes clear. I did a set of 416's for my 305 and Im glad I did.
the short block was a low mile .030 over 305 with dished pistons i pulled out of a $500 parts car
the heads were lightly used since a rebuild without porting, I ported them (i should have had the valves backcut too but I didnt know how important that was at the time)
K motion valve springs ... i forget the model but they are supposedly good for .550 lift
SSI camshaft 214/224 with something like .444//465 lift.. i dont feel like doing the math backwards but with my 1.6 rockers they are .474 .498
generic double roller timing chain
Milodon crankshaft scraper (cut to fit)
Crane stamped 1.6 rockers (no roller stuff.. way cheaper)
edelbrock TES headers for the l98 (1 5/8") no cat, full 3" tes catback
port matched edelbrock torker II single plane
stock ignition run by 7747 ECM with my own custom programmed timing curve(with accel coil *twirls finger in air*)
plugged waterpump bypass hole, 180 thermostat with some bypass holes drilled
Edelbrock 1405 600 cfm carb, choke removed. 104 primary jets 98 secondary jets... didnt get to completely tune it still needed a bigger shooter like a .35 and then i could have probably retuned the primaries i left it with the pink pump up springs (if i remember, a step away from stock anyways) and .75/.47 rods (dont remember exactly)
this is all in an 89 firebird with a t5, weight loss program, 3.42 rear with powertrax performance locker
I messed up on a few things i would have done differently. I definately would have milled the heads and gotten the valves backcut. The compression is probably around 9:1 maybe less which is unnacceptable to me.
I also would run a crankcase evacuation system of some sort which i did not do and now the backs of the valves are pretty caked up with oil ****.
I also would have gotten a rear with a numerically higher ratio, at least 3.73 and 4.10 being even better.
That said, the car still is pretty quick. I estimate around 100 mph in the traps and with traction (need alot of new bushings, even broke an axleshaft my wheelhop was so bad) around a 14.0 I was previously messing with a TBI setup on it and with a terrible tune and a 2.4 60 foot it ran a 14.88 at 93.66. ]
It got much faster with the right amount of air and fuel going in
I know of a similar combo with a performer Rpm and qjet with an auto running 101 mph
Id correct these problems if I was around the car. Ive been away from it for almost two years working for Uncle Sam.
sorry for the book but i was bored and you gave me something to do
I have a set of 416s on my recently rebuilt 350 bottom end. I'm running the xr269hr comp cam and the 416s have 2.02/1.60 valves with the chambers unshrouded to match. No port work has been done. The machine shop that did them claim 191 cfm at .400 and 204 cfm at .500. Sounds believable.
Anyway I am running a stock intake manifold with a Q-jet with a b-hanger and ck rods. My exhaust has been patched up a few times since the header and y-pipe install so a length of 2 1/4 inch pipe is in there right now while I wait to get a dynomax 3inch intermediate pipe. And that damn hedman y-pipe is only 2.5 inches. Bottom line is my exhaust could use a little opening up.
I had a chance to run it a couple of weeks ago in the cold and the results where disapointing but show potential.
1/4 mile = 14.8
0-60 ft = 2.5
mph = 98
As you can see traction was an issue. And it wasn't just the kind of slip where it cost you a couple of tenths off the line. It was the kind where you ease off the line and think you are solid and give it full throttle and the tires break loose while you are in the middle of the gear. That kept happening in both first and second gear (WC T5).
I'll bet with a full 3 inch exhaust and better intake I can break 100 mph.
Originally posted by jimmy_mac I have a set of 416s on my recently rebuilt 350 bottom end. I'm running the xr269hr comp cam and the 416s have 2.02/1.60 valves with the chambers unshrouded to match. No port work has been done. The machine shop that did them claim 191 cfm at .400 and 204 cfm at .500. Sounds believable.
Anyway I am running a stock intake manifold with a Q-jet with a b-hanger and ck rods. My exhaust has been patched up a few times since the header and y-pipe install so a length of 2 1/4 inch pipe is in there right now while I wait to get a dynomax 3inch intermediate pipe. And that damn hedman y-pipe is only 2.5 inches. Bottom line is my exhaust could use a little opening up.
I had a chance to run it a couple of weeks ago in the cold and the results where disapointing but show potential.
1/4 mile = 14.8
0-60 ft = 2.5
mph = 98
As you can see traction was an issue. And it wasn't just the kind of slip where it cost you a couple of tenths off the line. It was the kind where you ease off the line and think you are solid and give it full throttle and the tires break loose while you are in the middle of the gear. That kept happening in both first and second gear (WC T5).
I'll bet with a full 3 inch exhaust and better intake I can break 100 mph.
It's unfortunate you didn't port your heads while intalling big valves. You missed out on at least 40+cfm. Would have made a big difference in power.
that along with your small exhaust is probabily costing you 60 horsepower and lots of torque. Get a performer manifold too.
Originally posted by F-BIRD'88 It's unfortunate you didn't port your heads while intalling big valves. You missed out on at least 40+cfm. Would have made a big difference in power.
that along with your small exhaust is probabily costing you 60 horsepower and lots of torque. Get a performer manifold too.
Ye, I have a set of the TPI center bolt heads for the 305( I forget the casting) sitting on my bench. I might get a grinder and give it a shot. You can do the port work before you get the machining done for bigger valves right?
Originally posted by NTChrist How well does a set of 416's respond to 2.02/1.60 valves? Are they shrouded/sticking out into the quench area?
Would you recommend it, for a 350, F-BIRD'88?
I'd go with a 1.94 and 1.60 valve on a 350 with ported 416's
the 2.02 can be done but weakens the head, adds little or nothing in flow over the 1.94 done right.
Originally posted by jimmy_mac Ye, I have a set of the TPI center bolt heads for the 305( I forget the casting) sitting on my bench. I might get a grinder and give it a shot. You can do the port work before you get the machining done for bigger valves right?
Thats right. Open the bowls out to just a little smaller than the stock 1.84" valve seat. Then your bowl dia. will be just right for a 1.94" 3 angle valve job. When you're all done porting, take them in for a valve job and guide repair and spring mods.
Check your casting # before you start. Your looking for the 081
head. not the swirl port head.
Ye they are 081s. The runners look nicer than I remember the 416s looking before I put them on. I guess it's just because the bolt bosses for the valve covers are not protruding down on them.
Does anyone know which have better potential for flow when fully ported, The 081s or the 083s (350 heads), or are they pretty similar other than the stock size chamber and intake valve?
Originally posted by 85TPI400 Does anyone know which have better potential for flow when fully ported, The 081s or the 083s (350 heads), or are they pretty similar other than the stock size chamber and intake valve?
They are fundamentally the same heads, except the L98s have 1.94" intake valves. So just have the 081's intake reamed out to 1.94" and save a hoard of dough. They can be had almost for the asking, so port and polish them, as well, and you'll have a set of heads that will keep you content
Originally posted by NTChrist Very nice, Riley. Did you do the unshrouding yourself? Looks very professional!
Any times with the heads installed? Any more info on them?
No the heads were done by a guy on ebay,,He was great to talk to. He really thought these heads were the perfect combo for my 327. He machined them for screwin studs provided the studs a guideplates for 500.00 . He says the are at 64cc..Im real happy so far.
No Info Yet! I am still in the " getting started" phase. I will keep you all posted...and there will be a lot of help needed..so stay tuned folks! And SittingBull...you are at the top of my list!
__________________ 1989 RS previous 2.8,
406 sbc.RHS built..Fully ported Dart/World Sportsman II . Crane roller cam.Comp 1.5 roller rockers,TRW forged pistons 9:1 compression. 800cfi Holley.Ported Holley contender intake..Moroso 7 qrt pan..Hooker Super Comps, Ministarter, Summit Racing Seat, 5 point harness, Spohn Torque arm. Spohn 8 point roll cage, Sphon Sub frame connecters. Sphon line lock. B&M mega Shifter, Manual steering box. Race built 700r4 stage 111 shift kit, 4"cowel hood by Harwood, 28x10" Hoosiers on 10" Welds rear.. 28x4 1/2 Hoosiers on 3 1/2 welds up front .Oh Yes Getting serious now!
SOLD
1994 Z28 LT1/T56 Bone Stock! SOLD
" Damned Horse's "
Last edited by Riley's35089rs+; 03-14-2003 at 07:20 PM.
he would have bench tested them for an adittional 40.00.. but I thought maybe after the porting.. Here is a link to more pics of the heads...and my cars and family.. http://community.webshots.com/user/ronniew
Last edited by Riley's35089rs+; 03-14-2003 at 08:25 PM.
Originally posted by NTChrist Very nice, Riley. Did you do the unshrouding yourself? Looks very professional!
Any times with the heads installed? Any more info on them?
Hey NT,
How are your set of heads coming along? Any progress or pics yet?
Nope, saving up for 1.94/1.60 valves. I figure I'll start the porting after I get the bigger valve seats installed.
They do have to be done this summer tho, so there will be pics of the process within 6 mos.
BTW, did you go with the 1.60 on the exhaust? Or just the 1.94? And who manufactured your valves? I'm thinking either Manley's Street Flo's, or Summit's undercut valves.
Originally posted by NTChrist Nope, saving up for 1.94/1.60 valves. I figure I'll start the porting after I get the bigger valve seats installed.
They do have to be done this summer tho, so there will be pics of the process within 6 mos.
BTW, did you go with the 1.60 on the exhaust? Or just the 1.94? And who manufactured your valves? I'm thinking either Manley's Street Flo's, or Summit's undercut valves.
Nope, just kept them at 1.50" but enlarged the intakes to 1.94".
My valves are just stock replacements. Nothin' fancy. F-Bird'88 said it's not needed.
I prefer the 1.60" exhaust valve (on a 350). I've done it both ways.
They may not fit a stock 305 bore thou. Never tried it.
The valve seats (pressed in hardened inserts) do not need to be replaced. A new larger valve job, is nessessary.
The under cut stem valves are nice and probabily worth a few cfm. If, it's within your budget, go for it. I don't advocate a real expensive valve like Manley Severe Duty for this job.
It's over kill. Not cost effective in this application.
The budget street type hi- performance valves are more than up to the job. Race parts are for race cars. Put the $$$ where they'll do the most good.
hey you guys... will 416 heads work with the Edelbrock TBI intake manifold? im asking because this is the only direct factory replacement since i live in Cali. i was told the 416 heads(mine are 1986) have different angles than the 92. i just wanted to know before i start stripping the engine. thanks
I'd be interested in what that puppy runs!!! 
