ok here is my question, I want to get some better heads was thinking of the vortec route(trying to stick with stock parts) but dont want to have to deal with a special manifold, (this is going on my 95 TBI 350 truck) so what pre 95 heads are comparable to the increases seen in vortecs? I have some smaller chambered 58CC allum heads so Im trying to go as cheap as possible with some good heads instead of converting the intake and heads all together since GM is the only one who sells the TBI manifold for vortec heads and its 300 bucks! Im trying to get as much info as I can before I make any decisions so I can compile all the parts and do this on one of my breaks from school this winter. TIA

None.

That's why Vortecs are so popular.

If other heads were comparable, then the Vortecs wouldn't be so much of a difference, now would they.

"Vortec" is GM's trademark word for "we moved the intake ports". That's what makes them flow so well. With the raised port, the path from the intake to the valve is much more of a straight shot. That's where their flow comes from.

You don't "have to" have a TBI intake. You can use any carb intake, and an adapter, if you want to use Vortec heads.

Any of the better old heads will be an improvement over the swirl-port garbage that come on that truck motor, although they won't give you near what the Vortecs will wthout some major effort on your part. As far as stock heads go, probably the best ones you could get would be cast-iron L98 heads from a 87-92 Camaro or Firebird TPI 350.

The LT1 heads are comparable to Vortecs (they even flow a little better in some versions). That's basically where the Vortec port design came from. Of course, the LT1 and LT4 heads aren't a direct bolt-on for the standard SBC, even though they are technically "stock" heads.

So, as usual, RB is right - there aren't any other heads quite like the Vortec.

The only stock type head that will even come close to vortecs
is the GM Performance parts cast iron Bowtie heads.
Uses a conventional manifold. Priceing is not too bad lately.

PN is 12480034 Under $300(US) ea bare.

Performance oriented GM dealers like Scoggin Dickey can custom assemble them for you.

There are many of these heads floating around in the racing circles. Good opportunities to buy used.
Many dirt classes do not allow porting. Watch for ones that have been angle milled thou.

You could also buy a set of Protopline Iron Lighting 180cc heads.
They flow a little more than Vortecs. Impressive head.

There is a Dart SS (165cc) head to consider too.

ok, I was trying to stay away from the adapter/spacer idea cause I heard problems with tuning and stuff, but that was on carb app's I havent run across a tbi-carb adaptor just yet through summit, any idea who makes them or even better how hard would it be to make one out of a piece of aluminum?

I've got an AutoCad drawing of the adapter, but I'm not sure how effective a carb is going to be in place of a TBI220.

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...FIA/17-45.html

IIRC this fits a stock TBI as well

Corvette L98 heads are a good head as well, made from aluminum. Not so much comparable to the Vortec or Fast-burn heads, but still none the less a good set of heads.

what do you mean here vader? I will be using the TBI

I guess I wasn't paying close attention. I understood that you were going to be installing a carb. The TBI220 adapter will fit a TBI to a spread bore intake. I believe there is a Mr. Gasket adapter that will suit your needs as well.

I used a set of ported 041 heads (1.94 / 1.5 ) with a 2101 performer intake and a q-jet.
With those mods alone the improvement was very noticeable. This wk I hope to be putting in a vortec roller cam and a set of 1.6 rockers to wake it up even more! The 041 heads I used aren't vortecs but with porting they're a big upgrade over the stockers, and you can use your existing intake too.
Hope that's helpful.
Oh yeah, you'll have to drill a couple holes to get your accessories bracket to fit.

If the cost of the manifold is a holdup, please consider:
This guy put a brand new GM vortec TBI manifold on my doorstep for $250===> partspup24@yahoo.com. I also got a pair of 062 vortec heads complete from him for $425, delivered.

Is the manifold more expensive than others? Yes. But it may help to consider the package price as well.

Have you priced heads that flow comparable to vortecs, but take the standard, lower cost manifold? Such heads can cost $425, each.

It all costs money, thats for sure. It is difficult to find heads that flow as well as vortecs that cost so little. That helps offset the slightly higher cost of the intake manifold.

Whatever you choose- good luck with it-
S-D

Hey Swerve, I talked to the guy partspup, and he said he no longer does that, so Im back to straight from the dealer, this is just an idea, hell I may say screw the whole thing and save up for a whole new longblock or something with a warranty rather than trying to fix up just the top end on a 120G mile motor,

loom up this place for a set of decent heads www.enginekits.com or Sallee Chevrolet.

dont get the holley adapters. Just like their tbi, its not a direct replacement. Ive been cursing the holley tbi adapter since the day i got it. The tbi will not sit in the same location that it will sit stock and its a pita to mount the tbi up. The holley stuff isnt a "direct replacement" untill its modified to be so. I just thought id toss that out since i had to go through so many hoops to use their tbi and adapter. If your going to use a carb intake, then search around, i beleive there is better stuff out there.