still have big time timing problems
09-18-2003, 11:57 PM
#1
still have big time timing problems
posted about this a week or so ago. still no luck.
car drove perfectly. shut it off one evening. got back in 2 hours later and it would not start. plenty of gas, no fire.
changed ignition module. no change.
pulled distributor. bearings appeared worn and magnetic pickups were corroded. got a rebuilt distributor from napa along with a new accel cap. car started, but ran terribly. have to advance timing way off the scale just to get it to run.
checked firing order 5 times. sure it's correct.
assumed distributor was a tooth off. spent 2 days pulling distributor, moving it and trying again over and over. no good. i now understand the distributor can't be a tooth off. marked #1 terminal on cap and transferred that mark to the distributor body. absolutely sure the distributor is being installed with the rotor pointing at the point between the #1 and #8 distributor terminals.
flipped the distributor 180 degrees to make absolutely sure it wasn't installed 180 out. car would not run at all.
each time the distributor was installed, pulled the #1 plug, rotated the engine manually while holding a finger over the spark plug hole to feel for compression. stuck a screwdriver in the spark plug hole and continued to rotate the engine manually until the piston was at tdc. the timing mark on the harmonic balancer was at 0. even pulled the valve cover to make sure both valves were closed at tdc and the valve that opened after tdc was the exhaust valve.
thought we might have gotten a bad rebuilt distributor. exchanged it. no change.
when the car didn't run right after that, and even though we were sure it was in time, we pulled the cover and checked the timing chain. timing marks lined up. the chain was a little loose, so we installed a new one anyway, but it had not jumped time. still doesn't run right. still have to advance the timing off the scale to get it to run. it runs like the timing's too far advanced, though. spark rattles like crazy, white smoke, slow cranking, etc. when you put the light on it and turn the timing back, though, it doesn't run at all.
tried disconnecting the msd 6a unit to see if that was the problem, but the car won't run at all then.
totally puzzled.
car drove perfectly. shut it off one evening. got back in 2 hours later and it would not start. plenty of gas, no fire.
changed ignition module. no change.
pulled distributor. bearings appeared worn and magnetic pickups were corroded. got a rebuilt distributor from napa along with a new accel cap. car started, but ran terribly. have to advance timing way off the scale just to get it to run.
checked firing order 5 times. sure it's correct.
assumed distributor was a tooth off. spent 2 days pulling distributor, moving it and trying again over and over. no good. i now understand the distributor can't be a tooth off. marked #1 terminal on cap and transferred that mark to the distributor body. absolutely sure the distributor is being installed with the rotor pointing at the point between the #1 and #8 distributor terminals.
flipped the distributor 180 degrees to make absolutely sure it wasn't installed 180 out. car would not run at all.
each time the distributor was installed, pulled the #1 plug, rotated the engine manually while holding a finger over the spark plug hole to feel for compression. stuck a screwdriver in the spark plug hole and continued to rotate the engine manually until the piston was at tdc. the timing mark on the harmonic balancer was at 0. even pulled the valve cover to make sure both valves were closed at tdc and the valve that opened after tdc was the exhaust valve.
thought we might have gotten a bad rebuilt distributor. exchanged it. no change.
when the car didn't run right after that, and even though we were sure it was in time, we pulled the cover and checked the timing chain. timing marks lined up. the chain was a little loose, so we installed a new one anyway, but it had not jumped time. still doesn't run right. still have to advance the timing off the scale to get it to run. it runs like the timing's too far advanced, though. spark rattles like crazy, white smoke, slow cranking, etc. when you put the light on it and turn the timing back, though, it doesn't run at all.
tried disconnecting the msd 6a unit to see if that was the problem, but the car won't run at all then.
totally puzzled.
09-19-2003, 06:21 AM
#2
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I'm not completely familiar with the Crane ignitions, but I wonder if you can simply bypass the module by disconnectign it and expect the engine to run. It would seem that the original HEI connections to the coil primary would have to be reconnected.
Have you tried to bypass the EST to get the engine running?
Have you tried to bypass the EST to get the engine running?
09-19-2003, 10:26 AM
#4
Originally posted by Merlin
I'm not completely familiar with the Crane ignitions, but I wonder if you can simply bypass the module by disconnectign it and expect the engine to run. It would seem that the original HEI connections to the coil primary would have to be reconnected.
Have you tried to bypass the EST to get the engine running?
I'm not completely familiar with the Crane ignitions, but I wonder if you can simply bypass the module by disconnectign it and expect the engine to run. It would seem that the original HEI connections to the coil primary would have to be reconnected.
Have you tried to bypass the EST to get the engine running?
we're unplugging the est every time we set the timing. the car runs equally bad either way
09-19-2003, 11:58 AM
#6
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OK so
You have TDC on #1 (finger/screwdriver etc.)
Without turning the engine ovcer, the timing mark on the dampner lines up to 0* TDC correct?
In the above mentioned state, the car will not run. Correct?
To get the car to start and run you have to loosen tthe dist, and advance it quite a bit correct? if so how far?
After the above mention steps, with the car running, and it way advanced (spark ping etc) you put the timing light on and try to set it back to 0* TDC, and the car dies corrrect? When it dies, what does it do? pop back fire, hard to turn over?
You have switched distributors, with a new one and have the same symptoms correct?
If all of the above statments are true, then you know for a fact these things.
#1 It's absolutely timed correctly. But will not start
#2 It can't be the distributor itself, its timed, and new.
#3 Its not 180* out checked that.
#4 It's not the timing chain, nor did it jump time (new chain)
One thing for sure, don't second guess yourself. These things don't happen spontaneously so you can rule them out.
#1 Firing order unless somone sabotaged you, it's just like it was when it was running.
#2 dist 180* out again this doesn't happen on it's own so there's no reason to dwell on it. (unless checking from install)
Things that you didn't mention that do happen all on their own.
#1 plug wires? you didn't mention checking these or installing new ones.
#2 You said you lined up the rotor in between #1 and #8. Was #1 on TDC when you did that? If you have it all timed and good to go, and don't have the rotor pointing at #1 your timing is off.
So things to check,
#1 plug wires.
#2 position of the rotor while on TDC.
#3 Coil wire.
#4 all connections going to-from the distributor.
#5 ECM?
#6 pull a plug, check fire, see what color spark you have, and wether or not it is steady click click or erratic.
If it's not the distributor or timing, or the ignition module, what could have just suddenly "gone bad"
Please forgive me for repeating things and that, Im just kind of thinking out loud, and trying to logically rule things out for you. Let me know what I have mentioned that you have already done. Seems liek you have alreay checked the obvious.
You have TDC on #1 (finger/screwdriver etc.)
Without turning the engine ovcer, the timing mark on the dampner lines up to 0* TDC correct?
In the above mentioned state, the car will not run. Correct?
To get the car to start and run you have to loosen tthe dist, and advance it quite a bit correct? if so how far?
After the above mention steps, with the car running, and it way advanced (spark ping etc) you put the timing light on and try to set it back to 0* TDC, and the car dies corrrect? When it dies, what does it do? pop back fire, hard to turn over?
You have switched distributors, with a new one and have the same symptoms correct?
If all of the above statments are true, then you know for a fact these things.
#1 It's absolutely timed correctly. But will not start
#2 It can't be the distributor itself, its timed, and new.
#3 Its not 180* out checked that.
#4 It's not the timing chain, nor did it jump time (new chain)
One thing for sure, don't second guess yourself. These things don't happen spontaneously so you can rule them out.
#1 Firing order unless somone sabotaged you, it's just like it was when it was running.
#2 dist 180* out again this doesn't happen on it's own so there's no reason to dwell on it. (unless checking from install)
Things that you didn't mention that do happen all on their own.
#1 plug wires? you didn't mention checking these or installing new ones.
#2 You said you lined up the rotor in between #1 and #8. Was #1 on TDC when you did that? If you have it all timed and good to go, and don't have the rotor pointing at #1 your timing is off.
So things to check,
#1 plug wires.
#2 position of the rotor while on TDC.
#3 Coil wire.
#4 all connections going to-from the distributor.
#5 ECM?
#6 pull a plug, check fire, see what color spark you have, and wether or not it is steady click click or erratic.
If it's not the distributor or timing, or the ignition module, what could have just suddenly "gone bad"
Please forgive me for repeating things and that, Im just kind of thinking out loud, and trying to logically rule things out for you. Let me know what I have mentioned that you have already done. Seems liek you have alreay checked the obvious.
09-19-2003, 01:34 PM
#7
Originally posted by lykan
OK so
You have TDC on #1 (finger/screwdriver etc.)
Without turning the engine ovcer, the timing mark on the dampner lines up to 0* TDC correct? CORRECT
In the above mentioned state, the car will not run. Correct? CORRECT
To get the car to start and run you have to loosen tthe dist, and advance it quite a bit correct? CORRECT if so how far? IT'S OFF THE SCALE ON THE TIMING MARKS, SO I CAN ONLY GUESS ... 20 TO 30 DEGREES
After the above mention steps, with the car running, and it way advanced (spark ping etc) you put the timing light on and try to set it back to 0* TDC, and the car dies corrrect? CORRECT When it dies, what does it do? pop back fire, hard to turn over? WHEN YOU TURN THE TIMING BACK, IT POPS AND BACKFIRES. AS YOU KEEP TURNING IT BACK, IT DOESN'T RUN AT ALL. IT'S HARD TO TURN OVER WHEN THE TIMING IS ADVANCED TO THE POINT WHERE IT WILL RUN. AS YOU TURN THE TIMING BACK DOWN, IT BECOMES PROGRESSIVELY EASIER TO START.
You have switched distributors, with a new one and have the same symptoms correct? CORRECT. PUT A REBUILT DISTRIBUTOR WITH A NEW MODULE IN. WHEN IT DIDN'T WORK, THOUGHT WE MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN A BAD DISTRIBUTOR, SO WE TOOK IT BACK TO NAPA AND GOT ANOTHER REBUILT DISTRIBUTOR.
If all of the above statments are true, then you know for a fact these things.
#1 It's absolutely timed correctly. But will not start
#2 It can't be the distributor itself, its timed, and new.
#3 Its not 180* out checked that. THREE TIMES
#4 It's not the timing chain, nor did it jump time (new chain)
One thing for sure, don't second guess yourself. These things don't happen spontaneously so you can rule them out.
#1 Firing order unless somone sabotaged you, it's just like it was when it was running. WE'VE CHECKED THE FIRING ORDER 5 TIMES
#2 dist 180* out again this doesn't happen on it's own so there's no reason to dwell on it. (unless checking from install)
Things that you didn't mention that do happen all on their own.
#1 plug wires? you didn't mention checking these or installing new ones. THE PLUG WIRES ARE LESS THAN 6 MONTHS OLD (MSD WIRES). HARD TO BELIEVE ONE BAD WIRE WOULD CAUSE THIS, BUT WILL CHECK RESISTANCE ON WIRES JUST TO RULE THAT OUT.
#2 You said you lined up the rotor in between #1 and #8. Was #1 on TDC when you did that? YES. CHECKED WITH @1 PLUG OUT AND VALVE COVER OFF TO BE SURE. If you have it all timed and good to go, and don't have the rotor pointing at #1 your timing is off.
So things to check,
#1 plug wires.
#2 position of the rotor while on TDC.
#3 Coil wire.
#4 all connections going to-from the distributor.
#5 ECM? IF THE EST IS UNPLUGGED COULD THE ECM STILL BE THE PROBLEM? IF SO, WHAT'S THE DIAGNOSIS PROCEDURE?
#6 pull a plug, check fire, see what color spark you have, and wether or not it is steady click click or erratic. GOOD IDEA.
If it's not the distributor or timing, or the ignition module, what could have just suddenly "gone bad" I'M STUMPED ON THAT ONE.
Please forgive me for repeating things and that, Im just kind of thinking out loud, and trying to logically rule things out for you. Let me know what I have mentioned that you have already done. Seems liek you have alreay checked the obvious.
OK so
You have TDC on #1 (finger/screwdriver etc.)
Without turning the engine ovcer, the timing mark on the dampner lines up to 0* TDC correct? CORRECT
In the above mentioned state, the car will not run. Correct? CORRECT
To get the car to start and run you have to loosen tthe dist, and advance it quite a bit correct? CORRECT if so how far? IT'S OFF THE SCALE ON THE TIMING MARKS, SO I CAN ONLY GUESS ... 20 TO 30 DEGREES
After the above mention steps, with the car running, and it way advanced (spark ping etc) you put the timing light on and try to set it back to 0* TDC, and the car dies corrrect? CORRECT When it dies, what does it do? pop back fire, hard to turn over? WHEN YOU TURN THE TIMING BACK, IT POPS AND BACKFIRES. AS YOU KEEP TURNING IT BACK, IT DOESN'T RUN AT ALL. IT'S HARD TO TURN OVER WHEN THE TIMING IS ADVANCED TO THE POINT WHERE IT WILL RUN. AS YOU TURN THE TIMING BACK DOWN, IT BECOMES PROGRESSIVELY EASIER TO START.
You have switched distributors, with a new one and have the same symptoms correct? CORRECT. PUT A REBUILT DISTRIBUTOR WITH A NEW MODULE IN. WHEN IT DIDN'T WORK, THOUGHT WE MIGHT HAVE GOTTEN A BAD DISTRIBUTOR, SO WE TOOK IT BACK TO NAPA AND GOT ANOTHER REBUILT DISTRIBUTOR.
If all of the above statments are true, then you know for a fact these things.
#1 It's absolutely timed correctly. But will not start
#2 It can't be the distributor itself, its timed, and new.
#3 Its not 180* out checked that. THREE TIMES
#4 It's not the timing chain, nor did it jump time (new chain)
One thing for sure, don't second guess yourself. These things don't happen spontaneously so you can rule them out.
#1 Firing order unless somone sabotaged you, it's just like it was when it was running. WE'VE CHECKED THE FIRING ORDER 5 TIMES
#2 dist 180* out again this doesn't happen on it's own so there's no reason to dwell on it. (unless checking from install)
Things that you didn't mention that do happen all on their own.
#1 plug wires? you didn't mention checking these or installing new ones. THE PLUG WIRES ARE LESS THAN 6 MONTHS OLD (MSD WIRES). HARD TO BELIEVE ONE BAD WIRE WOULD CAUSE THIS, BUT WILL CHECK RESISTANCE ON WIRES JUST TO RULE THAT OUT.
#2 You said you lined up the rotor in between #1 and #8. Was #1 on TDC when you did that? YES. CHECKED WITH @1 PLUG OUT AND VALVE COVER OFF TO BE SURE. If you have it all timed and good to go, and don't have the rotor pointing at #1 your timing is off.
So things to check,
#1 plug wires.
#2 position of the rotor while on TDC.
#3 Coil wire.
#4 all connections going to-from the distributor.
#5 ECM? IF THE EST IS UNPLUGGED COULD THE ECM STILL BE THE PROBLEM? IF SO, WHAT'S THE DIAGNOSIS PROCEDURE?
#6 pull a plug, check fire, see what color spark you have, and wether or not it is steady click click or erratic. GOOD IDEA.
If it's not the distributor or timing, or the ignition module, what could have just suddenly "gone bad" I'M STUMPED ON THAT ONE.
Please forgive me for repeating things and that, Im just kind of thinking out loud, and trying to logically rule things out for you. Let me know what I have mentioned that you have already done. Seems liek you have alreay checked the obvious.
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09-19-2003, 05:52 PM
#8
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I just tryed to look at square one, and all the things I know about timing and dist's and go through them one by one.
So we've eliminated the ignition module, distributor, wires, and timing chain. I can't imagine what would be left to mess with the timing.
With the EST disconnected there is still some manipulation of the timing. I disconnected mine just the other night, and when I hit the throttle, the timing did advance although not smooth it DID advance.
So I am assuming there is some connection possibly a limp home mode that operates if the est is not connected. I don't know however how to diagnose this problem, except some people report tapping on the ECM, if the car dies, you know thats the culprit.
I have seen plug wires bad out of the box.
So yes,
#1 I would assume it could possibly be the ecm/ecu. (not totally sure.) and don't really know how to diagnose. UNless you have alaptop and aldl
#2 I have seen some bad plug wires out of the box, be sure to double check the coil wire.
#3 I am really interested in seeing what type of spark you have. let us know
Most of all, good luck hopefully you stumble onto something.
So we've eliminated the ignition module, distributor, wires, and timing chain. I can't imagine what would be left to mess with the timing.
With the EST disconnected there is still some manipulation of the timing. I disconnected mine just the other night, and when I hit the throttle, the timing did advance although not smooth it DID advance.
So I am assuming there is some connection possibly a limp home mode that operates if the est is not connected. I don't know however how to diagnose this problem, except some people report tapping on the ECM, if the car dies, you know thats the culprit.
I have seen plug wires bad out of the box.
So yes,
#1 I would assume it could possibly be the ecm/ecu. (not totally sure.) and don't really know how to diagnose. UNless you have alaptop and aldl
#2 I have seen some bad plug wires out of the box, be sure to double check the coil wire.
#3 I am really interested in seeing what type of spark you have. let us know
Most of all, good luck hopefully you stumble onto something.
09-19-2003, 06:09 PM
#9
Originally posted by lykan
I just tryed to look at square one, and all the things I know about timing and dist's and go through them one by one.
So we've eliminated the ignition module, distributor, wires, and timing chain. I can't imagine what would be left to mess with the timing.
With the EST disconnected there is still some manipulation of the timing. I disconnected mine just the other night, and when I hit the throttle, the timing did advance although not smooth it DID advance.
So I am assuming there is some connection possibly a limp home mode that operates if the est is not connected. I don't know however how to diagnose this problem, except some people report tapping on the ECM, if the car dies, you know thats the culprit.
I have seen plug wires bad out of the box.
So yes,
#1 I would assume it could possibly be the ecm/ecu. (not totally sure.) and don't really know how to diagnose. UNless you have alaptop and aldl
#2 I have seen some bad plug wires out of the box, be sure to double check the coil wire.
#3 I am really interested in seeing what type of spark you have. let us know
Most of all, good luck hopefully you stumble onto something.
I just tryed to look at square one, and all the things I know about timing and dist's and go through them one by one.
So we've eliminated the ignition module, distributor, wires, and timing chain. I can't imagine what would be left to mess with the timing.
With the EST disconnected there is still some manipulation of the timing. I disconnected mine just the other night, and when I hit the throttle, the timing did advance although not smooth it DID advance.
So I am assuming there is some connection possibly a limp home mode that operates if the est is not connected. I don't know however how to diagnose this problem, except some people report tapping on the ECM, if the car dies, you know thats the culprit.
I have seen plug wires bad out of the box.
So yes,
#1 I would assume it could possibly be the ecm/ecu. (not totally sure.) and don't really know how to diagnose. UNless you have alaptop and aldl
#2 I have seen some bad plug wires out of the box, be sure to double check the coil wire.
#3 I am really interested in seeing what type of spark you have. let us know
Most of all, good luck hopefully you stumble onto something.
we've checked the ecm numerous times throughout the process with the gm tool you insert in the socket to make it flash the codes. it comes back all ok.
the guys at the shop are focusing on two things:
1) the fact that it won't run at all with the msd bypassed. i downloaded the installation instructions and troubleshooting guide and faxed it over, but still no luck.
2) one of the guys at the shop said he'd heard when the distributor goes bad in one of these cars it can take the msd unit with it. i didn't get a chance to follow up with him to get a clearer idea of what he's talking about. does that make sense to anyone?
Last edited by seanof30306; 09-19-2003 at 06:13 PM.
09-19-2003, 06:40 PM
#10
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Seems possible to me if the dist is connected to the msd module it could have fudged it up. Did thy check the frequency/strength of spark, heck it might not be getting any spark when timed right.
09-20-2003, 01:18 AM
#11
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Car: Camaro
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
hey seanof... hats off to you man... that is alotta crap your going through and it sure seems like the car is putting up a fight with you... man i wish i understood half that **** about timing... i know how frustrating that crap is .... i wish you the best of luck and hope you get it all figured out soon... i'm curious to hear the solution... sorry i can't be of any help to you... later
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09-20-2003, 04:14 PM
#12
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Car: Z/28
Engine: 355
Transmission: Turbo 400
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Just a guess here. check your timing chain and gears, maybe it jumped some teeth . Ive had that happen to me before. Then check for bent push rods in case the valves hit the pistons being out of time with the rest of the engine.
09-20-2003, 08:58 PM
#13
Originally posted by RWB____s
Just a guess here. check your timing chain and gears, maybe it jumped some teeth . Ive had that happen to me before. Then check for bent push rods in case the valves hit the pistons being out of time with the rest of the engine.
Just a guess here. check your timing chain and gears, maybe it jumped some teeth . Ive had that happen to me before. Then check for bent push rods in case the valves hit the pistons being out of time with the rest of the engine.
09-20-2003, 09:14 PM
#14
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Car: Z/28
Engine: 355
Transmission: Turbo 400
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Sorry, I guess I should have read your post complete before responding. I feel so ashamed= (
Hope you find the problem soon. Happy cruising!
Hope you find the problem soon. Happy cruising!
09-22-2003, 02:23 PM
#15
ok, the shop i took the car to has it running, but it doesn't make sense.
remember, have put two napa rebuilt distributors in the car, it ran terribly.
car would not run at all with the msd unit bypassed, ran terribly when it was connected.
shop checked msd install, it was fine.
shop bypassed msd unit and installed an old distributor and coil they had laying around (car had an msd coil). car ran fine.
shop installed a new delco distributor, coil, wires anp plugs, car runs perfectly. shop owner said he believes the msd unit was killing the new distributors as i installed them.
i don't know what the distributor could be killing. after we replaced the ignition module (before the distributor swap(s)), we put the original module on the tester at napa. it checked out fine.
called msd. tech said he'd never heard of that before and doubted the msd unit was the problem. he said the only way to test the msd unit and coil was to send them back to msd.
i pick the car up tomorrow, so i don't have first hand experience yet, but the shop owner said he drove the car around for a good bit and it runs perfectly.
a) does this make sense?
b) does anyone know of a way to check the msd unit and coil without sending them back?
one thing this will do is allow me measure the value of the msd unit and coil. i had the car dynod not long ago, i'll take it up there thursday night to see what it does with stock ignition. i've often suspected that you won't see much difference from an ignition upgrade in a car that noses over at 4500 rpm.
also, while the shop owner said the plugs needed to be changed because they'd become fouled, he also siad they were bosch plugs and they didn't work well with gms. anyone know? i got the distinct impression he doesn't like using anything but delco parts.
bottom line, they appear to have found the problem when weeks of my best efforts couldn't, so my tail's waggin' (although my wallet's hurtin'). ha ha ha
i'd just like to have a clearer understanding of exactly what the problem was and how i might have better diagnosed it.
anyone have any thoughts?
btw, thanks for the help from everyone.
remember, have put two napa rebuilt distributors in the car, it ran terribly.
car would not run at all with the msd unit bypassed, ran terribly when it was connected.
shop checked msd install, it was fine.
shop bypassed msd unit and installed an old distributor and coil they had laying around (car had an msd coil). car ran fine.
shop installed a new delco distributor, coil, wires anp plugs, car runs perfectly. shop owner said he believes the msd unit was killing the new distributors as i installed them.
i don't know what the distributor could be killing. after we replaced the ignition module (before the distributor swap(s)), we put the original module on the tester at napa. it checked out fine.
called msd. tech said he'd never heard of that before and doubted the msd unit was the problem. he said the only way to test the msd unit and coil was to send them back to msd.
i pick the car up tomorrow, so i don't have first hand experience yet, but the shop owner said he drove the car around for a good bit and it runs perfectly.
a) does this make sense?
b) does anyone know of a way to check the msd unit and coil without sending them back?
one thing this will do is allow me measure the value of the msd unit and coil. i had the car dynod not long ago, i'll take it up there thursday night to see what it does with stock ignition. i've often suspected that you won't see much difference from an ignition upgrade in a car that noses over at 4500 rpm.
also, while the shop owner said the plugs needed to be changed because they'd become fouled, he also siad they were bosch plugs and they didn't work well with gms. anyone know? i got the distinct impression he doesn't like using anything but delco parts.
bottom line, they appear to have found the problem when weeks of my best efforts couldn't, so my tail's waggin' (although my wallet's hurtin'). ha ha ha
i'd just like to have a clearer understanding of exactly what the problem was and how i might have better diagnosed it.
anyone have any thoughts?
btw, thanks for the help from everyone.
09-22-2003, 03:20 PM
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Well, there' only two choices I can see , either you got a defective coil from napa, or the MSD could have sent a voltage spike to fry it shortly after install.
The only thing you could have done different, which not many would have thought of was.
Unplug the msd, go get new coil. Hook it up to stock wiring.
When your car just quits, and you assume it's the dist, you go buy a new dist, you dont think that another component could be making the dist fry in the first place. I think the shop was just lucky they by-passed the MSD on the first install of the distributor. If not they would have had the same trouble.
IN tech work I had the same style of problem. HD goes bad, you put in a new drive, format it, and ten minutes later it's cooked too, after 4 drives you finally figure out that the Motherboard was fryen the HD, and although the result was a bad hard drive, it wasn't the cause.
Problems like that are always a pig to figure out. Gkad you got it all figured out, sorry about the wallet, I know how that feels.
The only thing you could have done different, which not many would have thought of was.
Unplug the msd, go get new coil. Hook it up to stock wiring.
When your car just quits, and you assume it's the dist, you go buy a new dist, you dont think that another component could be making the dist fry in the first place. I think the shop was just lucky they by-passed the MSD on the first install of the distributor. If not they would have had the same trouble.
IN tech work I had the same style of problem. HD goes bad, you put in a new drive, format it, and ten minutes later it's cooked too, after 4 drives you finally figure out that the Motherboard was fryen the HD, and although the result was a bad hard drive, it wasn't the cause.
Problems like that are always a pig to figure out. Gkad you got it all figured out, sorry about the wallet, I know how that feels.
09-23-2003, 02:49 PM
#17
well, i picked the car up an hour ago, and it runs fine.
it's been 3 weeks since i last drove it, so maybe my perceptions are warped, but it seems to have a bit more punch. according to the tach 9which now works since the msd box is gone), it noses over at around 4,300 rpm.
there's a dyno shop in town that has a special on thursday nights .... 3 pulls for 50.00. i was on that dyno about 3 months ago. i'm going up there thursday night to see if there's any difference with a completely stock ignition versus msd 6a, coil and wires.
next up (now that it's finally running again).... 3.42 posi
it's been 3 weeks since i last drove it, so maybe my perceptions are warped, but it seems to have a bit more punch. according to the tach 9which now works since the msd box is gone), it noses over at around 4,300 rpm.
there's a dyno shop in town that has a special on thursday nights .... 3 pulls for 50.00. i was on that dyno about 3 months ago. i'm going up there thursday night to see if there's any difference with a completely stock ignition versus msd 6a, coil and wires.
next up (now that it's finally running again).... 3.42 posi
09-23-2003, 10:27 PM
#18
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: san antonio, texas
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take a look look at your primary and your secondary wiring to your coil and see if you are reciving 12v to the coil. i found out that the plugs to the coil, one is grey and the other is black at one time or the other goes bad. check your wiring to your dist too.
09-26-2003, 02:56 PM
#19
dyno update
well i took it to the dyno last night.
with a stock (new) ac delco distributor, coil wires and plugs, it made a best run of 164 hp and 254 lbs ft torque. the previous best with the msd unit, msd blaster coil, msd wires and bosch plugs was 161 hp and 253 lbs ft torque.
the obvious conclusion is that i'm making more hp and torque with the stock ignition. however:
i didn't put a timing light on it the last time, and this engine is really sensitive to timing. at 0 degrees initial advance, i got only 149 hp and 234 lbs ft torque. i got the best results with 6 degrees of initial timing.
i don't know how old the bosch plugs were when i did the first runs. they were in the car when i bought it and i put a thousand or so miles on them myself before putting the car on the dyno.
i think i can fairly conclude, however, that the msd ignition made no difference on this car.
what do you guys think?
with a stock (new) ac delco distributor, coil wires and plugs, it made a best run of 164 hp and 254 lbs ft torque. the previous best with the msd unit, msd blaster coil, msd wires and bosch plugs was 161 hp and 253 lbs ft torque.
the obvious conclusion is that i'm making more hp and torque with the stock ignition. however:
i didn't put a timing light on it the last time, and this engine is really sensitive to timing. at 0 degrees initial advance, i got only 149 hp and 234 lbs ft torque. i got the best results with 6 degrees of initial timing.
i don't know how old the bosch plugs were when i did the first runs. they were in the car when i bought it and i put a thousand or so miles on them myself before putting the car on the dyno.
i think i can fairly conclude, however, that the msd ignition made no difference on this car.
what do you guys think?
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