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Old 03-04-2001, 07:41 PM   #1
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Chrome plated cylinder walls

has anybody done this? I heard that if you do this your engine will last forever....almost

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Old 03-04-2001, 07:42 PM   #2
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Where'd you hear this? A chrome plater?

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Old 03-04-2001, 07:59 PM   #3
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No they chrome plate small engined aircraft(cessnas, and pipers) and they go 2000 hours between overhauls. anyway, chrome is harder then steel, and the walls shouldn't deform. plus as an added benifit they can make the plating thicker at the top of the cylinder to make more compression.

anyway chrome should keep the cylinders from getting egg-shaped and all goofed up.

I will probably be doing this to my 400
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Old 03-04-2001, 08:07 PM   #4
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good luck. you will never be able to get you rings to seal. most of us high performance guys don't really worry about the life of their engines. i will probably get bored with my current combo long before it wears out.

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Old 03-04-2001, 08:12 PM   #5
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I don't know how they get them to seal, but I guess it would have to be possible. the onlything that I am worried about is going through the block, 400s in my area are extremely rare, and I could easily get about 800-1000 for the block alone.

so ring sealing would be a problem, are there any other problems with the chromed walls?
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Old 03-05-2001, 10:18 AM   #6
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You don't have to chrome plate the cylinder walls to make them last long. Synthetic oil, regularly changed, high volume oil pump, and keeping it cool will make it last a long time. My 400 is from a 73 Malibu, and god only knows how many cars its been in. Im sure it has at least 200,000 miles on it. For some reason, 400s last a long time. I believe its because they dont have to rev very high to make power. I can drive all day and never go over 2000 RPM! Anyways, good oiling and cool running will keep your engine lasting forever. BTW, Cessna engines can go so long between maintenance because they are engineered for simplicity. They have no timing advance whatsoever and they have magnetos instead of distributors so the engine will run with no battery, and other stuff to make them very reliable. The chrome plated cylinder walls don't have much to do with it.

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Old 03-05-2001, 11:19 AM   #7
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rings wont seal at all least it'll look good!!!but you cant see it from the outside. so it aint worth it! put the money you want to use on that crap, and put it into something else!!

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Old 03-05-2001, 11:53 AM   #8
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The rings will seal correctly, if you use the correct rings. There are many examples of engines that use chrome bores from Rolls-Royce, to Mercury Outboard engines. The cylinder will last longer than a plain cast bore, but a cheaper alternative is NiCaSil coating.

Either way I don't think it is worth it in a car engine. A well maintained engine will pretty much outlast a car anyway, unless you do a complete restoration.
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Old 03-05-2001, 03:04 PM   #9
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This is definitely a new one on me.

In all I've read over lots of years, I've never come across this being done to an auomotive engine.

Normal cylinder wall prep calls for a 60 degree cross-hatch pattern to remain after the honing is complete. This pattern holds a tiny amount of oil to lubricate the rings to prevent excess wear. Chromed walls won't have this and I'll bet ring life will be very short.

Unless I could find some positive, hard data on the long term effects of this mod, I'd skip it.

Now hard chroming a crank shaft is a different matter. This mod has proven effectiveness and hardens the journals against abrasive/oil dilution wear. Since the journal/bearings are under oil pressure, no cross-hatch is needed or even desired.

Sometimes very smooth is good; sometimes it ain't.

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Old 03-05-2001, 06:48 PM   #10
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hmm, I didn't know that there would have been problems with chrome plated walls. But the journal bearings being chromed intrigue me. What would be really neat, is if you could teflon coat the bearing surfaces, teflon has one of the lowest coefficients of friction known to man.
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Old 03-05-2001, 07:07 PM   #11
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Chroming the cylinder walls like in a single engine (or twin) airplane is not a good idea. First the airplanes are designed to perform for extended periods of time at a LOW engine RPM. second, automotive technology is light-years ahead of single engined aircraft. Most Cessnas and Pipers running around are leftovers from the 50's-70's.
Lastly, the airplanes run off of lead fuel. I know some drag engines run off of the 100LL stuff too, but if you plan on taking it on the street, forget it. 100LL is expensive stuff ($2.32/ gallon i believe) JET A is a bit cheaper, but still not easy to find.

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Old 03-05-2001, 07:30 PM   #12
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Let's go back to your statement about the cylinder walls deforming: The chrome won't stop it. The chrome is intended only as a wear surface, not a strength-adding coating. The chrome is very thin; it's hard, but brittle so not "tough". If the cylinder walls flex behind the chrome, the chrome will crack and peel off - doesn't sound too good, does it.

The surface prep has to be perfect before the chrome is plated. Any dirty spot or improper roughness will leave a "bubble" that will chip right off. Guess what, after that happens? Same as above.

It is feasible, and yes, special rings designed for the job would be required. But, do like Ward says and you're just as well off and you've spent a lot less money.

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Old 03-05-2001, 11:04 PM   #13
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When I saw my LG4 pass 200,000 miles on Valvoline mineral oil, I even wonder about synthetic! My 355 will have synthitic in it, though, but just because I'm picky about $3500+ engines.

I don't really see where it would be worth the cost of having it chromed (Hard chrome, I'm sure). and the special rings that would be required.

As a side note on the synthetic, a buddy was doing the math on it, and for the difference in cost, if you run 150,000 miles, and have to replace the long block, you still would've save money on the oil changes. As I said though, I will have synthetic in my 355.


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Old 03-06-2001, 12:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JP84Z430HP:

As a side note on the synthetic, a buddy was doing the math on it, and for the difference in cost, if you run 150,000 miles, and have to replace the long block, you still would've save money on the oil changes. As I said though, I will have synthetic in my 355.

</font>
Wouldn't save money with which option, petroleum or synthetic? If the latter, you need to redo some math.

If you change synthetic every 3000 miles you (pick one or more below): 1) have a tuning/mechanical problem; 2) are using a cheap synthetic; 3) are used to lighting cigars w/$20 bills; 4) are ignorant; 5) are ****; 6) have had something else chromed (there, now we're back on topic...).
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Old 03-06-2001, 01:27 PM   #15
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Chrome is a bad idea.... if it flakes your engine will 'esplode
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Old 03-06-2001, 01:49 PM   #16
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okay okay, I think that I am not to enthused about chroming the walls. I have also heard about the cost, and now I am thinking.....not untill I am a gazillionaire, even then I could blow up an engine everyday, and i still wouldn't care. that would be the life
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Old 03-07-2001, 08:26 AM   #17
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I don't run synthetic for it's help with wear, i run it for fuel savings. In my 85 i started making a solid 2-3 mpg better when i switched to sythetic.
And 57, i'm the lighting cigars w/ $20 type i guess, i still change every 3k miles. I like clean oil, what can i say. I'm waiting for the amsoil pitch though, you sound like thats where you're leading to...lol
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Old 03-07-2001, 09:24 AM   #18
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This process is widely used in the aircraft industry. Read this, it explains the process and some of the other questions that came up:

http://www.sentrya-ccylindersinc.com...chrome_101.htm

The fact that the process is FAA certified means that someone has tested it extensively. It works rather well.

However, to use it on something other than an aircraft engine means that they'd have to do a special set-up. They're not used to dealing with engines that have integral cylinders, and there's no experience base with cast-iron cylinders, etc.
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Old 03-07-2001, 08:30 PM   #19
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Hey guys, this is an interesting subject for cars. I have a 1999 Yamaha YZ400F, thats a 400cc 4-stroke, if your not familiar with motocross bikes. It has a plated cylinder and it turns 11,200 rpms. It's also a five valve single cylinder screamer. Like someone said above I don't think they can plate to an iron cylinder like in a standard sbc. But if you had a aluminum one it would be great for a high rpm motor. It reduces friction and prolongs ring life. The local bike shop owner here had his old bike sleaved with a cast iron one, and it just would not rev like it did before, so he had it resleaved with an aluminum one and plated and now she screams again! This would probably not be worth the cost in a motor that never sees the high side of 6000 though. Oh yeah just wondering what the hp/cubic inch would be for my YZ. 400cc/55hp 235pounds. Its fast. Going to take it to the strip and run it against the IROC this spring in the 1/8.

later, eastTN

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Old 03-07-2001, 08:30 PM
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