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What are you talking about. All i said that all stock SBC rods are forged, after you said that you have forged rods. Then i said that you need good rods and bolts to handle the engine speeds (+-7000rpm) it will take to make 500rwhp NA.
Brodix 18x Heads, CNC ported
GM bowtie block
Matching intake
850 cfm carb
Solid roller cam (big duration, big lift)
Jesel shaft rockers
Jesel belt drive
Callies, Cola crankshaft
Carrillo connecting rods with SPS-CARR bolts
JE, Ross, Wiseco pistons
Weaver dry sump system
Some big *** fuel pump, 10- AN feed line, 8- AN to the carb
A bunch of other cool parts
No but he acted like all rods where made forged. 60 and 70's but i get the point they are all forged now but still wouldnt trust them under any real HP
Last edited by Spdfrk1990; 10-29-2004 at 02:32 AM.
Anyway that point Me leigh is trying to prove is about stupid cause he knows nothing about me or what i know i just asked a simple question and he starts a bunch of ****. ME Leigh thought that the holes on the deck that none of them are for the water jacket. Thats real smart!
heres what he put "Don't be putting block filler in there, not a very good idea. Either you mistook what he meant or he is an idiot". To me he acts like he thinks he is a know it all and he needs to stop replying if he cant keep his mouth shut and callin people idiots starting these flames.
Last edited by Spdfrk1990; 10-29-2004 at 02:43 AM.
Ok i quit you just don't get it. I said all SBC, small block chevy rods are forged. Here is the quote from Hotrod, it says Pontiac, AMC, Cadillac, and Buick motors are cast, nothing about chevy. I mean come on. As for the block filler i have never heard of pouring it down the cooland passages in the deck. I always heard about putting it in the freeze plug holes, to do a partial fill. I guess thats what you get for not researching something and talking without actual experience. I think you would know about that!
In the ’60s and ’70s, American Motors, Cadillac, Buick, and Pontiac all used cast rods in a wide variety of engine designs. In an effort to improve molecular binding and strength, the molten metal was injected into the mold cavity under high pressure. The resulting castings may have been good enough for use in everything from GTOs to Jeeps, but they have no place in anything other than the most fanatical numbers-matching restoration effort. Worst of all, these cast parts had to be made heavier than comparable forged rods to maintain strength. When you consider that a cast “Arma-Steel” Pontiac 455 rod weighs 31.7 ounces and a stock Chevy 454 forged rod weighs 27.4 ounces, you’ll agree they’re the automotive equivalent of recycled cardboard.
Your tellin me you think you know something cause you know stock POS rods are forged. Good for you i never cared cause i knew they were crap. You know 1 thing haha
Originally posted by Spdfrk1990 No but he acted like all rods where made forged.
This is the Third Gen website right? Then "all" to me means, all third gens, which in stock V-8 trim, are SBC.
Spdfrk1990, it will be to your benifit (and it won't hurt) to search this site for more information and wisdom before you throw money into your car and engine combo. Take it from someone who made a few costly errors. I thought I knew enough to make my car get well over 300 rwhp. Boy was I wrong. I learned more after the motor was done than ever before. But the money was spent and I have to make do with what I got. I will enjoy it for what it is, it will be a real nice cruizer.
We are all just trying to help you out, that is what this board is for. Don't take it as a personal attack. This board it a wealth of knowledge mostly good and some bad. But hey it aint that hard to pick the bad from the good.
think-it, search-it, plan-it, build-it
__________________ Proud owner of a new 2010 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab Hemi 4X2.
I ask cause i dont know all im more of a body man. I have built alot of old cars with my dad cause i use to work for him and we have built the engines but nothing much more then a cam intake and carb,headers you know. Anyway the reason i ask is cause i dont know all of whats best for hi performance out there i have just seen what people have bought i never seen any comparisons much between different heads. So im tryin to ask a question then you get people like ME Leigh coming in here thinkin he is a master machanic cause he has read a few articles, but anyway i was just trying to get some knowledge about heads. Thats it too bad there isnt a ignore button . I talked to a guy at a hi performance shop thats does alot of hi performance engine build ups and he was actual mature and we wcould talk about some stuff. Ill just go talk to him again and get some useful information cause so far im just getting nothing on here.
Your tellin me you think you know something cause you know stock POS rods are forged. Good for you i never cared cause i knew they were crap. You know 1 thing haha
Thats funny. You have the nerve to dog someone else, and you dont even understand that cam selection has to be matched to heads and intake. You cant pick them seperately. I cant wait to see how this turns out, I hope you are in the lane next to me at the track.
Since when did you think i didnt know that and he was one that started the put down conversation. I cant pick them separetly ummmm that doesnt make sence not every1 can buy them all at 1 time my ***. I buy the head and intake then figure the cam specs i need what dont you get you have to start from somewhere. Pleqase just lock this thread im tired of these people noone with any real knowledge besides one person that told me to go with AFR's.
I talked to a guy at a hi performance shop thats does alot of hi performance engine build ups and he was actual mature and we wcould talk about some stuff. Ill just go talk to him again and get some useful information cause so far im just getting nothing on here.
Tell your engine builder that you want, 625 crank hp or 500rwhp naturally aspirated, and see what he says. I think you will be suprised.
Since when did you think i didnt know that and he was one that started the put down conversation. I cant pick them separetly ummmm that doesnt make sence not every1 can buy them all at 1 time my ***. I buy the head and intake then figure the cam specs i need what dont you get you have to start from somewhere. Pleqase just lock this thread im tired of these people noone with any real knowledge besides one person that told me to go with AFR's.
The cam will dictate the RPM range of the engine. If you pick everything else, you will have hemmed yourself into a corner, and will be limited on cam choice. Its obvious who doesnt know anything here. No real knowledge? I didnt need to post a thread like this when Ibuilt my last engine. And I surely didnt need to try to put down anything anyone else said. Simple fact is, you dont know a damned thing about this. Hope you have fun with your 5K dollar 14 sec wonder! Have a nice day!!!
Not even gonna be close to streetable. But of course, you know it all, so I am sure you will develop a special component that will allow it to run flawlessly on the street, after all, you are SOOOOO much smarter than the rest of us.
Originally posted by ME Leigh Tell your engine builder that you want, 625 crank hp or 500rwhp naturally aspirated, and see what he says. I think you will be suprised.
Make sure you toss the word "Streetable" in there as well.
- ALL sbc rods that GM ever made have been forged steel rods. All of them. From 1955 to the present. Period. Look at the little 2bbl 265ci in a '55 Bel Air. You'll see forged rods. Look in a '70 350/370hp Corvette. You'll see... guess what? forged rods. Look at grampa's '80s pickup with a 305. Forged rods. Now, depending on which factory rods you have, you might have a set that is more than strong enough for a potent race prepped small block, as long as you prep those rods right and use good bolts.
- 500 rwhp with a NA small block is NOT going to be a streetable engine. It just won't. To make those kind of power levels, you have to have a crazy cam. Its got to be HUGE. Way too big to be driveable on the street. Its going to be an absolutly gutless pig at anything below 4000 revs. I also wouldn't count on it being happy with pump gas either, since you'll have to have a pretty high compression ratio because of that cam, and that engine's going to want alot of timing as well I bet.
- If you really want 500 rwhp, and you want it to last more than 10 miles, this is what I would do:
Get the biggest small block (or a big block) that you can get. If you go sbc, build a 427, 434, or 454 inch small block. You'll probably need an aftermarket block for an engine like this. Now, get the toughest forged crank and get the best rods and the best bolts you can buy. Now, talk to piston/head/cam manufacturers and tell them you want to build a ___ ci SBC blower motor that you want to run on pump gas. Then, talk to Weiand (or other supercharger co) and ask them if the pistons/heads/cam reccommended by their respective MFGs would be a good combination for one of their blower setups.
ljnowell there you go again talkiin out of your *** and i never said i knew it all. If i can drive it on the strip it will be streetable enough for me you dont understand i dont ever drive this car. How is picking the heads and intake first throwin me in the corner ill just buy the best parts i can then go from there how dont u get that. Every1 else agreed that was a good idea i told the machinist also. When i get home ill find a 500 rwhp camaro that is N/A for yah. The reason i will do this is cause i was going to get head work done and get everything flow tested then get a cam to handle it.
ljnowell there you go again talkiin out of your *** and i never said i knew it all. If i can drive it on the strip it will be streetable enough for me you dont understand i dont ever drive this car. How is picking the heads and intake first throwin me in the corner ill just buy the best parts i can then go from there how dont u get that. Every1 else agreed that was a good idea i told the machinist also. When i get home ill find a 500 rwhp camaro that is N/A for yah. The reason i will do this is cause i was going to get head work done and get everything flow tested then get a cam to handle it.
Who said 500 hp N/A wasnt possible. I sure as hell didnt. My brother had a 500HP 350 in a 73 camaro. It wasnt very damn streetable though. Just for a quick cruise through town or two, and that was it.
Yes, buying an intake and heads first, without any forethought into cam/converter package, or RPM range is painting yourself into a corner. If you dont understand that, then I or anyone else here cannot help you in the slightest bit. You obviously are too stupid (Dont like to say it, but then again I dont like to be told I am talking out of my ***) to comprehend what is being said. Nothing like someone asking for advice, because they dont know what they are looking at, and then trying to start a fight.
Originally posted by ljnowell Who said 500 hp N/A wasnt possible. I sure as hell didnt. My brother had a 500HP 350 in a 73 camaro. It wasnt very damn streetable though. Just for a quick cruise through town or two, and that was it.
hey bro!!!
yup its entirely possible to build one if you think every part thru and not just start buying stuff out of a catalog ...
when we built our 73 camaro it wasnt a weekend project to just throw everything together it takes alot of thought and comparing numbers to decide what will work together and work properly we ended up with a little over 500 hp at the crank and it was not streetable by far it was an auto and i guess a stick could have made it better.
anyway picking out a set of heads first isnt the way to go you need to go to an engine builder and ask them what you should do first and i can just about gaurentee that it isnt going to be buy a set of heads and build your car around that you need to become more informed before you go spouting off at people that have built and helped build the kinds of engines you are talking about .
just reading about it on the net on a page once or twice doesnt make you an engine builder ......
__________________ •"I work on my chevy because I want to ..I work on your ford because you pay me too"------THEGENERAL
•"If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?"-------George Carlin
•There's a place for all of gods creatures .....right next to the Potatoes & Gravy!
•R.I.P. Johnny Carson, 1925 - 2005 You will be missed.......
•"Never argue with an idiot, they'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience".....METALICAMARORS
No i think your too stupid to comprehend did you drop out of HS or somethin. I know the rpm range i want about 2500-6500 or even 3000-7000. I can make the heads and intake flow as good as possible then buy the matching cam is that hard to understand. Also look at that 500hp motor there can still be a ton done to it. Single plane intake,bigger carb,bigger cam,higher compression. Look at the bottom post though read that one 680 hp and they said it will be street driven. I really think this will be never ending if keep makin the same reply after i explain 900 times. Why cant anyone talk about heads is that why we are going off topic i guess not that many people on here has tried different ones they just read about them . I gave you enough facts its not that hard to pic out a good company that makes good parts. I dont care if they make different heads i just want to know who has the best quality plain and simple.
Never said i was a engine builder dont think ljnowell
or Me Leigh is much of engine builders either i was just asking about a good brand. I didnt want to buy the cam first then decide later i wanted to buy different heads or intake cause then i would be restricted.
No i think your too stupid to comprehend did you drop out of HS or somethin. I know the rpm range i want about 2500-6500 or even 3000-7000. I can make the heads and intake flow as good as possible then buy the matching cam is that hard to understand. Also look at that 500hp motor there can still be a ton done to it. Single plane intake,bigger carb,bigger cam,higher compression. Look at the bottom post though read that one 680 hp and they said it will be street driven. I really think this will be never ending if keep makin the same reply after i explain 900 times. Why cant anyone talk about heads is that why we are going off topic i guess not that many people on here has tried different ones they just read about them . I gave you enough facts its not that hard to pic out a good company that makes good parts. I dont care if they make different heads i just want to know who has the best quality plain and simple.
Nice, call a guy with multiple college degrees a high school drop out! Did you hear that general? Your little brother the professor is an idiot! (BTW, not a professor, just a nickname)
Dude, you dont know what the hell we have done in the motor world. We did run a single plane intake. We did run a carb that was perfectly sized. Pushing 13:1 compression, didnt think it needed to be any higher. Had to run off race fuel. You just now, for the first time gave enough facts to make an educated guess. You finally gave an RPM range you expect to perform at. Of course, I wouldnt help you now if you were on fire, nor will many other people here, after you behaved like a little girl. Its time for this multiple degree holding drop-out to leave you to your own devices, Have a nice life loser!
Originally posted by Spdfrk1990 Never said i was a engine builder dont think ljnowell
or Me Leigh is much of engine builders either i was just asking about a good brand. I didnt want to buy the cam first then decide later i wanted to buy different heads or intake cause then i would be restricted.
you dont need to buy a cam or heads first ....you need to sit down and decide what exactly you want from your engine and then pick every piece out not just heads not just cam....you need to map out exactly what you need piece by piece.....but since we dont know what we are talking about ljnowell i guess we wont be building any more engines ...LMAO
oh well have a good one man ......
and calling your fellow thirdgeners stupid or HS dropouts isnt going to get you far with anyone when they see how you act to some difference in opinion i think you need to go take some prozac and relax for the evening ...
__________________ •"I work on my chevy because I want to ..I work on your ford because you pay me too"------THEGENERAL
•"If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?"-------George Carlin
•There's a place for all of gods creatures .....right next to the Potatoes & Gravy!
•R.I.P. Johnny Carson, 1925 - 2005 You will be missed.......
•"Never argue with an idiot, they'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience".....METALICAMARORS
You think i give a **** about what you say, no i dont need your help nor want it. I know plenty of people that have built alot of engines i just figured i would see what people on here liked. So i dont think i will take any suggestions from this section anymore. I'll have to talk to some people in person instead of little "girls" hiding behind a computer. Ive alrdy said the range i wanted i just keep getting the run around and the same questions asked that i didnt ask for. Also Wait i forgot you know me and what i have done also but yet all your stupid assumptions first off is what started this ****. Started off thinkin i didnt know suspension and all that lmao if you guys want to get started in this i know stuff. Body work we can go there too cause i bet you dont know ****.
Um i dont think im callin my fellow thirdgenners stupid i like allot of people on this board and we have had alot of good convo's. Its the people that have been making comments a select few in this thread thats all i will just keep away from this section from now on.
Originally posted by Spdfrk1990 You think i give a **** about what you say, no i dont need your help nor want it. I know plenty of people that have built alot of engines i just figured i would see what people on here liked. So i dont think i will take any suggestions from this section anymore. I'll have to talk to some people in person instead of little "girls" hiding behind a computer. Ive alrdy said the range i wanted i just keep getting the run around and the same questions asked that i didnt ask for. Also Wait i forgot you know me and what i have done also but yet all your stupid assumptions first off is what started this ****. Started off thinkin i didnt know suspension and all that lmao if you guys want to get started in this i know stuff. Body work we can go there too cause i bet you dont know ****.
thats mature.. .....LMAO
i never suggested you were stupid did i?
nor did i call you a HS drop out did i?
nor did i call you a 12 year old did i ?
nor did i call you a girl hiding behind your computer did i?
nor did i say you couldnt do body work?
dont even remember that being an issue the last time i built an engine either....LMAO
hmmmm good night and good luck with your engine build .......
__________________ •"I work on my chevy because I want to ..I work on your ford because you pay me too"------THEGENERAL
•"If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?"-------George Carlin
•There's a place for all of gods creatures .....right next to the Potatoes & Gravy!
•R.I.P. Johnny Carson, 1925 - 2005 You will be missed.......
•"Never argue with an idiot, they'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience".....METALICAMARORS
Originally posted by Spdfrk1990 The general calm down i wasnt talkin about you. Sorry just get a lil fired up i have a short fuse but only if some1 else says somethin first.
sounds like we all just need to settle down a little and go grab a cup of the captain and coke and relax for the evening.....
short fuses ive learned in my 11 years of marriage and 31 years of life dont get you anywhere except alot of arguements about pointless stuff that could be settled alot easier if you would count to 10 relax and listen to the people that are trying to get the information for the conversation to help you ...LOL
__________________ •"I work on my chevy because I want to ..I work on your ford because you pay me too"------THEGENERAL
•"If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?"-------George Carlin
•There's a place for all of gods creatures .....right next to the Potatoes & Gravy!
•R.I.P. Johnny Carson, 1925 - 2005 You will be missed.......
•"Never argue with an idiot, they'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience".....METALICAMARORS
Originally posted by Spdfrk1990 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9....10 , deep breath ok now lets all be nice i got high blood pressure im too young to have a heart attack
see now thats better....LMAO
__________________ •"I work on my chevy because I want to ..I work on your ford because you pay me too"------THEGENERAL
•"If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are the others here for?"-------George Carlin
•There's a place for all of gods creatures .....right next to the Potatoes & Gravy!
•R.I.P. Johnny Carson, 1925 - 2005 You will be missed.......
•"Never argue with an idiot, they'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience".....METALICAMARORS
Hard core i like that . This engine most likely wont meet my total expectations i think i might work on another after this one is done. I guess ill be satisfied with 450 at the crank but i will want a bigger number eventually. I do want this motor to be more top end though i dont mind much if it dont come on till 3 grand ive drove alot of cars like that.
Ok I usually just lurk but, I've read the whole thread and had a suggestion.
There is a formula that will tell what airflow you need to reach a given horse power. I don't have it. I'm sure some one does.
Look at some of the various man. sites i.e. AFR, Brodex,Canfield, ect. I would not even bother looking at less than 220cc int. volume.
See which heads have the required airflow potential other things will afect there actual flow. Look for a head with good balance int. to exh. 75% seems to be the rule.
That air flow will be at a given lift; take that figure and use it as a guide in choosing a cam.
Takle to the tech. people at every step especially at your cam supplier, don't argue with them just take thier advice use it don't use. TRy to be concise think about what you want to know and say. NOt trying to offend but there's been a fair amount of heat on this topic.
Now my 2 bit opinion:
The engine willnot be a joy to drive any amount of time in the street. It will be a chore. If it's carburated it's going to suck gas like jet on full afterburns. It will be sluggish. I think you eill need at lest a 4:56 gr. 3000 stall or better and one mother of a cooler to keep from frying the trans. I doubt seriously it will make any real usable pwr, below 3000rpm not monster power just get out of it's own way pwr. The spring pressures required for the cam are going to be vary high this means your valve train is going to have limted life time, as will the whole motor, one of the problems will be the roller lifters required by your pwr goals idling and low rpm use are exstemely hard on the needle bearings. THose needle bearings are made of a hardened steel and will eat everything they get into. I apologize for the typos. I to late already and I have to go to wrk.
aside from a few of Stekman's. 
. This engine most likely wont meet my total expectations i think i might work on another after this one is done. I guess ill be satisfied with 450 at the crank but i will want a bigger number eventually. I do want this motor to be more top end though i dont mind much if it dont come on till 3 grand ive drove alot of cars like that. 
