Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
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OK, thought I would finally complain about my oil consumption and see if any one has any ideas. I have the engine that is in my sig below. It has maybe 3,000-3500 miles on it. I check the oil level daily and log all of my driving habits and mileage of the day. I have come to discover that I burn about 1.5 quarts for every 300-400 miles I drive. driving habits have not had a significant effect. I get 16-18 mpg mixed driving.
My syptom is that I have a considerable amount of oil that has pooled atop my intake valves. I have not checked exhaust yet. I first thought that it was the intake. I had heard of the Stealth ram not sealing good. So I replaced it with a 1205, than tried a 1206, than tried a .120 thick gasket. Stilll burns oil. Pulled the rocker studs out and sealed the threads with sealant. Still burns oil. Went up to 10W-30 from 5W-30. No big improvement there.
I run the stock PCV system on only the drivers side (odd cylinders). Appears that it still has even oil distribution on the valves and runners. So I am able to have it narrowed down to an incorrectly machined intake or a set of heads with 8-16 bad valve seals with my said mileage.
Is there any way of finding out which one it would be for sure. I have contacted Holley and Trick Flow and they both said if their product was the problem I would have to ship it to them and they would fix it after checking it. I pay shipping of course. But that means around 2-5 weeks down time, no car?
Any suggestions?
__________________ 4-bolt 355. Ported Trick Flows. LT4 Hot cam. Ported and Siamesed TPI setup. 10 bolt with 3.42's. 730 ecm that I tune. LS1 brakes.
Originally posted by Morley I agree, intake leak, especially if it didn't do it before the intake was put on.
Are you using the print-o-seal type (stock or ROL gasket) intake gaskets? If not...use them.
it is a rebuilt engine. I am unfamiliar with the "Print o seal" gaskets. It is also a new intake. No leak down test. How would I do a vacuum test for that or what would it do.
I am reciving no help from Holley. They even had the gal to tell me that they have never had this problem. After that I told them about the problem other people have had on the boards here is identical, they aked like that did not even happen either. So I have to send it in at my cost if that is it. I checked the exhaust valves and found, saw and felt no oil on the exhaust valves or stems. Holley tech guy said it was still a valve problem. Odd how it is only on the intake of all the runners isn't it?
Is i burning the oil, or just leaking somewhere? maybe you have a bad leak on the back of a valve cover or your rear seal is leaking? I had a really bad leak out of a valve cover a few months ago, it lost almost a quart in 3 days, and I had no idea till I saw my starter covered in oil. Turned out my valve covers were warped. I pounded the flange back to flat, and no problem since.
Originally posted by Air_Adam Is i burning the oil, or just leaking somewhere? maybe you have a bad leak on the back of a valve cover or your rear seal is leaking? I had a really bad leak out of a valve cover a few months ago, it lost almost a quart in 3 days, and I had no idea till I saw my starter covered in oil. Turned out my valve covers were warped. I pounded the flange back to flat, and no problem since.
It is deffinatly burning oil. I try to keep an eye on external leaks. If there was an external leak it should show up on thegarage floor or I should have seen it when I am polishing all of that chrome on the belly, and back, and front...
I had Momar watch while I started it up and it seemed to let out a small huff and puff of whitish blue smoke, but only in the first 2-4 seconds of startup.
I also pulled the valvecover and watched it with the engine on. Oil squirting out the roller rockers as usuall and draing down good. No indication of umbrella seals lying around.
What good would a vacuum test do. I have watched my map readings at idle and I see between 35-40 Kpa map at 18 degrees timing, Driving map seems normal.
gee it sounds like a valve seal problem. in the fel pro kit there are two types of seals which did you use on which valve stem? and i think there was o rings too and an install toold to protect them from the grooves in the valves. maybe you cut them instaling them?
A quart or more in 400 miles is hardly a valve stem seal problem. My stem seals have been gone for ten years, and I rarely even see the oil below the FULL line on the stick at the oil change interval.
You likely have a leak around or under the intake flanges.
Holley Help Line? No help? Is that a big surprize?
The next time you remove the intake to replace gaskets, make a very close inspection of the contact pattern impressions of the intake and heads on the gaskets. There should be a definite mark left by the material surrounding the ports.
Vader,
I am sorry not to have mentioned it in a previous post. I did measure the thickness with my digital caliper after I removed the gaskets. The width around the water passages seemed to be .045-.055. The thickness of the intake runner passages seemed to be .055-.060. That was on a Fel-Pro 1205 with an original thickness at .060-.065. This was measured after I removed it, so it might not be quite acurate. I am still waiting for Holley to call me back.
What Number or kind of Mr Gasket would I use?
I managed to get in touch with E-man as he had gone through what I am going through. He said Holley did not do anything for him and he had the intake machined and it is fine now.
Originally posted by Vader A quart or more in 400 miles is hardly a valve stem seal problem. My stem seals have been gone for ten years, and I rarely even see the oil below the FULL line on the stick at the oil change interval.
Amazing, I was under the impression (one of my theories) that the oil would be able to seep down the intake valves when the engine was off, causing my pooling issues.
I recieved the heads fully assembled from Trick Flow and did not assemble anything but the rockers studs up.
Holley called back today so I got to talk with their Quality assurance manager. He said to send it in and we would go from there. It appears to be one of my last avalible options so I am going to send it in for $7.00 s and h. I will update this once I recieve word from Holley.
Originally posted by Tibo Amazing, I was under the impression (one of my theories) that the oil would be able to seep down the intake valves when the engine was off, causing my pooling issues.
I recieved the heads fully assembled from Trick Flow and did not assemble anything but the rockers studs up.
you'd need to have a inch or so of standing oil under your valve covers for you theroy to work. any oil there would drain back into the engine before it leaked past your valve seals.
I sent the intake off to Holley and just recived word that It checked out on everything OK. So next I will try to reseal my rocker arm studs with teflon tape instead of sealer and will also take off the pcv. Maybe I am pulling too much vacuum for pcv. I have it hooked up at the back of the intake (Stealthram). If that still fails I will be pulling the heads for further analysis.
even if it was the intake gaskets leaking i doubt that it would be on all 8 cylinders.
if you've got oil pooling in the heads, the intake valves could be sucking it in. i glanced at the specs on the motor.. i would suspect with a rebuilt you probably put a high volume oil pump in there, and maybe even a high pressure spring. with the aftermarket heads, the oil returns may not be albe to deal with that sort of oil volume, is pooling and getting sucked in.
has your engine been decked, that will sometimes cause miss-alignment issues with the heads and intake, causeing internal oil leaks, also when they machined your intake when it was made they might have been off a hare on it where it bolts th the head, just my $0.02
__________________ 84 Z-28 in the prosess of re-build:
383, steel crank, forged pistons 4 bolt block .040 over
comp cams nitrous XP 288HR
Adv dur 288/315
Dur@.050 236/248
LSA 113
valve lift .520/.540
"quiet" gear drive
polished and ported trick flow 23* heads
comp P/N 26918-16 beehive valve springs
steel full roller rockers
edelbrock pro-flow 1000 CFM EFI port mached to heads
Venom 36 lb injectors
edelbrock nitrous sys, 150 shot
hooker 2210 1 3/4 pri headers
powermaster starter
powermaster alternator, 160 amp
'97 T-56 transmission
centerforce dual friction clutch
pro 5.0 shifter
richmond 3.73 gears
eaton posi
spohn K-member
spohn "wonderbar"
spohn torque arm/crossmember
spohn lower control arms
spohn A-arms
spohn panhard bar
spohn subframe connectors
dual exauast, 3" up to cut outs
nordskog digital dashbord
trippel gauge pilar mount
digital fuel press.
digital nitrous pressure gauge
digital oil temp gauge
It actually ended up being that the sealer I was using on the screw in rocker studs was being pulled off, so oild was being sucked down. I also had the pcv hooked up to full vacuum, which only needs 2-3" and I was giving it full vacuum. I used teflon tape and disconnected vacuum and the problem was gone. I rebuilt the engine with the regular M55 oil pump and spring. The block was decked .010, not enough to throw up a red flag. With new clean heads it would be able to deal with a high volume or pressure pump. It would only be a problem if the heads were old and clogged.
For future reference if anyone has this problem and sends it off to Holley, do not waste your time with Tipp Tyler, he is worthless along with the rest of their tech assistance guys. The only guy you should deal with is Tom Brishere. He was VERY helpfull and concerned.
