Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
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going for around 225 to 250 (CHEAP) for a 30lb cylinder right now... will be up to around 500 by mid summer. i work for swift transportation and we used to get 30lbs for around 85-90 bux, not anymore.
I just paid $10 a piece for 12 oz. cans of the stuff to retrofit my car, the factory fill of R-12 finally leaked out enough that it didn't work good anymore, I just added 8oz. of oil and 2 cans of 134a and now it cools really good, even has ice forming on the compressor lines, it hasn't done that in many years.
I haven't bought any recently (or even looked at the price) so can't comment on the current price. But, I think the price will be going up due to the UN and the Kyoto Protocol.
"there has been an agreement with the countries in the United Nations to go forth with a gradual phase-out of HFC's such as R-134a (following in the footsteps of R-12). We anticipate that the phase-out will be accelerated just as the R-12 phase-out was as investigation and forecasting of global warming is completed and published."
Duracool (HC12a) will be the next refrigerant that you'll be using after R134a gets too expensive.
Ya but buying anything in small amounts will always be more expensive than buying it in bulk. The "cost per ounce" will be a lot less when you buy it in the 20-30 pound bottles or whatever the capacity is.
These guys are correct, the price of 134 is going up. I have retrofitted alot of cars over the last 3-4 years with R134 including 4 of my own cars. I was getting this stuff by the can and it was around $3.00 a can early last year. I just retrofitted my Iroc a month ago and it was over $9.00 for 1 can of R134. The fellow at the parts store that I am pretty tight with told me the price will be going even higher this summer. I am suspecting the same thing you guys are,,,,,pretty soon they will be phasing out the 134 just like they did with R12. Funny thing is the 134 is supposed to be ozone friendly unlike the R12, now I think they are changing there tune. Oh well, I guess we will have to find something else to retrofit with, maybe the HC12 that was mentioned earlier? I have not seen that stuff around here on the shelves yet, must be a canadian thing or something. I will ask my father what is up,,,,,he works for EEI which is a large A/C manufacturing company for the government. He knows all the ins and outs on the freon. Larry.
Here is the deal. Dupont is screwing the US. They have cut off production of R134 for the US so that they can send it to China becuase the auto market over there is booming. They pretty much said screw the US. R134 was $90 for a 30lb tank (cost) for our shops last fall. I payed $219 per 30lb tank a month ago. That was the cheapest I could find at the time, most places were over $250.00. The current going price around here is $296 per tank. Almost all of the local suppliers are out of stock and they probably wont get more anytime soon. Prices will top $450.00 per tank this summer. Its going the way of R12. I have a 30lb tank of R12 for sale for $600, and thats not a bad price from what I hear.
__________________ 1988 IROC-Z L98, now with NAAWWWS!
So, we have two options. Buy it up now, or go ahead and see if the new stuff works in our cars. I shoudl go buy another few cans of R134a just becasue.
Anybody running that Duracool stuff that was mentioned above, it's hydrocarbon based but is supposed to have a higher flash point than 134a, but there must be some drawbacks to it or it seems everyone would be running it? http://www.duracool.com
Originally posted by AsphaltAssalter Anybody running that Duracool stuff that was mentioned above, it's hydrocarbon based but is supposed to have a higher flash point than 134a, but there must be some drawbacks to it or it seems everyone would be running it? http://www.duracool.com
Looks like I need to retract my previous statement about using Duracool.
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig.../hc12alng.html
" As of the printing date of this fact sheet, EPA is aware that the following states prohibit the use of flammable refrigerants in automobile air conditioners: Arkansas, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, and the District of Columbia."
HFC-134a is produced by more than 5 manufacturers. The alleged top four are Dupont, Allied Signal, Elf Atochem and ICI Americas and their trade names are respectively SUVA -134a, Genetron 134a, Forane 134a and KLEA 134a from what I could find.
There are a slew of other options out there, but I think the cost is more from a supply and demand thing rather than a curbing of use. What may be happening is that those countries that are part of the Kyoto accord are starting to (non-commercially) stockpile the chemical much like we did r-12. If I were a producer, I would sell where I could get the most green. The fact that I thusly shoot up the price here is just an added benefit.
However, that is pure speculation, and until I find or am shown some documentation enlightening me to why the cost has gone up, I'm not too worried about it, it's not like I have to charge the system yearly or anything. :shrug:
Oh well, I guess we will have to find something else to retrofit with, maybe the HC12 that was mentioned earlier? I have not seen that stuff around here on the shelves yet, must be a canadian thing or something. I will ask my father what is up,,,,,he works for EEI which is a large A/C manufacturing company for the government. He knows all the ins and outs on the freon. Larry. 
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