Hey guys... My friend asked me to post this for him: I am trying to decide on a new GTO or a third gen GTA. I would like to be able to work on my car often and I hear the new GTO's are a nightmare to work on. What do you guys think? Would I be better off hot rodding up a third gen trans am or just getting a GTO thats ready to go fast? Looks don't matter right now. I just am trying to decide which one I will have the most fun with. What is it like hot rodding a LS1 vs a TPI car? Thanks!

Yep, I bet it's tight as a virgin in that engine bay.

Obviously the LS1 is going to be alot faster and respond well to mods. Personally, I think thirdgens look awsome and are fun as hell to work on. I'd get a pretty cheap 3rd gen, and spend the rest of your cash modding it. You could always drop in a LS1 too. Nonetheless, it's always fun modding a car.

Since you live in CA i would advise against a thirdgen. It will cost alot more than its worth to make a reasonable amount of power.

If you didn't live in CA i would say get a carb car or ditch the TPI.

I'd like to counter that nightmare-to-work-on statement. Buddy of mine has a 2005 GTO (LS2) and man, under the hood is very nice. Everything is easy to get to.. Much better than a 4th gen F-body (no windshield extending halfway into the engine compartment). I'd still pick the thirdgen, but I'm just saying, the GTO isn't gonna be hard to work on (hell, much easier than a stock emmisions-equipped TPI)...

Get the GTO keep the GM hot rods alive

That's quite a range either spend $5000 or $30,000 on a car.

Hey, when it's helping somebody spend yet somebody else's money, it's all good. I'd tell him to go for the GTO too. Just make sure I get to use it whenever I want.

For $32,000 that the GTO goes for, you could buy a nice thirdgen with the LSx drivetrain already swapped in (check with Hawks, they have cars for sale most of the time), or have one swapped, ship it to California, and still have $12-15,000 left over! You'd have to take it to a referee station for approval, but a good swap should have no problem passing.

GTO will make a nice fast DD without the stress of passing emisshions .

personally, try and find a 1989 Pontiac 20th anniversary Turbo Trans Am....


I dont know how much used they run for but I can guarantee you they'll run less than a GTO. The turbo trans am uses a 3.8 turbo fuel injected engine that brings to the table about 300hp and close to 400lbs of ft. torque. In essence, these stock form can do the quarter mile in high 13s and they can jump from 0-60 at about 4.6 seconds. THEY are fast! Modded they would destroy LS1 Trans Ams and may keep up with the GTOs.

The 04' models of GTOs however are running fairly cheap now, you can get a decent one for less than 25k and no more than like 15k miles on it. But I'd aim for the 05' model because they have the LS2s in them

Stock, with a decent driver, a TTA would beat the GTO. Decent ones start in the mid teens.

The 05 6.0 L GTO has 400 hp and hits the 1/4 in 13.1@106. That would beat the TTA...

....and has a warranty, parts more easily available, more reliable.....

If he has the money I say tell him to get the 05 GTO with a 6-speed. A few bolt ons and he will be in the 12's no problem.

If it were me and money was not a big deal, I'd go for the cool new car as long as I still had my thirdgen to mod. I had a friend in Ohio who bought the new Cougar a few years ago when it was brand-fricken-new and it kept that "cool" feature for about a year where people would walk up and be in awe at a new, sleek car.

Cougar being cool, thats the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

If it were me, I'd find a low mileage Third Gen (preferably GTA) and spend the extra cash swapping in an LS-2 T56 combo.

-Bill

I've been in a new GTO and i dont like it. Maybe its just not my style. Neither is 4th gen. Anyway -

A thirdgen with an engine swap seems better to me. Go with LS1 or LT1. LS1 engines are more powerful in stock form. LT1 is a better bang for the buck for mods.

Cost. Depends on how far you go with the thirdgen. What else do you want out of the thirdgen besides speed. Want better brakes, suspension, rims/tires, rear end, interior, paint?

Either car, i could have fun with though. I know you're not too concerned with looks, but a trans am is just awesome.

I say buy a 4th gen LS1 and mod it and have a faster car than the GTO for less money, not to mention the suprise you will give people.

or do that but with the ls1 in a thirdgen, and surprise people even more while looking even better!

even in cali, i would definitly say go for an lsx in a thirdgen. look over at ls1tech.com. for the price of a gto you could build a 7.0l dry-sleeved ls2 block, swap over everything needed to hold all the power(12-bolt, t56, brakes, suspension, etc), get it through a referee station, and still have some pocket change(and a much superior car all-around). sure that would be more work, but at least half of the fun is making your car go fast, not buying someone else's already fast car.

I have always loved the 00-02 WS6 Trans-Am's. They are definitly quicker than the 04 GTO's. Proably would be a drivers race vs an 05. Id take a Ls1 Ws6 over a GTO or any Third gen any day.

I would go for the thirdgen myself, but I would also make sure it was mint condition. I personally can't stand having high hopes for a car as far performance goes, then having to spend a lot of money just trying to fix the things that are wrong with it in the first place.

I wish I had known more about cars before I bought mine. Ended up with a oil-leaking 305 car which is rusting everywhere and paint slowly flaking off. Don't get me wrong, I love my car but it's seen better days for sure.

I seriously can't believe you cannot decide which car to buy, How can you compare a 5,000 car to a 30,000 car? That's just like deciding whether someone should buy a Vette or a Kia! I mean common now 3rd gens are great cars, but compare it to a GTO? Common thats insane!

Besides an LS2 and the fact that its brand new, what does a GTO have over any thirdgen?

Nothing.

If you get a low mileage Third Gen and do an LS2 swap, I can't see how the GTO is so much better.

GTO. I like the third gen's more, but that's alot of work and money to put into a third gen to get it to be equal to the GTO.

If you wanted to swap an LS2 into a thirdgen, cost would be very relative. Of course, the cost of the body, engine, transmission & rear are fairly straightforward, but all the additional costs associated (such as body work, paint, etc...) would come down to whether you do it all yourself or you outsource it. If you did it all yourself and figured out how much you would have been charged at a shop, the total would probably be close to the new car. It comes down to how much time/money you have to spend, but in the majority of cases such as this, you're not saving much at all to go with the swap.

But...if you can manage to find an absolutely mint body, as Nate86 said...it could be done on the cheap.

i'd say get the GTA cause they are more "classic" than a new gto. and OBDII really sucks! trust me, u dont want to mod an OBDII car

While I do love the thirdgens, I would have to say a GTO.

Let's just say that you go and buy a low miles, mint 3rd gen. Swap in a LS2, big brakes, nice suspension, the whole kit-n-kaboodle... Now, let's say that you're putting along and all of a sudden -BLAM- 16 yr old in her mommy's civic t-bones you.

Now what do you have? tweaked suspension, driveshaft that just bent, possibly mashing up the gears in the trans and the differential, basically everything that you invested your time and money into ruined.

Full coverage and having the car appraised would help in this situation, but would you ever have a car just like it again? Not likely!

Say the same thing happens to your '05 GTO. What do you do? Take off your couple of mods, part the car out, get your brand new '05 GTO from the insurance money, and be on your merry way.



Maybe I'm a negative thinker?

but its better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all...

why not, the programming abilities are considerably better and it has a computer and mass air system that can support much higher hp numbers without forcing speed density. i'll take flash programming an OBDII car over a chipped OBDI car anyday.

I could love the GTO, just have to own one to love one. Someday maybe

You're asking a third-gen forum if he should get a GTO or a third-gen? Obviously the most common answer should be third-gen, as we are all biased if were going to give our opinion.

Depends on what the third-gen is. If I was offered a choice, I'd take the third-gen... assuming it's in like new condition.

I think a new car should be a beater lol or a car you dont really put a lot of money into. Cause if you think about it. All of the newer cars these days are pretty much complete. Like who wants to mess with a brand new gto that already has some balls in which almost everyone in the world has an oppurtunity to have. I like the idea of taking a car, building the engine, doing what YOU want. There's more then enough room to do stuff because of the aftermarket parts. 3rdgens are sweeeet.

Bone stock TTA's in ideal conditions have busted into the 12's
Take it for what you will. Stock times for any car depends on too many factors.

Other than getting baseline numbers who races stock cars anyway. Start with free mods and the portly Goat starts trailing in a hurry. Pocket change and gets ugly.

ehhh, I dont know about that ive seen 13.4's before but never 12's from a TTA. Not saying its not possible though.

i'd like to see any proof at all of a TTA running anywhere close to a 12 in stock form. hell, finding one stock is hard enough. on top of that you couldn't find one with the original goodyear gatorback's to be worth a crap. either way, the GTO is much better built and much more advanced in technology. deciding between the choice of a GTO or third gen T/A has nothing to do with power. you can make either faster. you could make a third gen extremely fast for the cost of the GTO, but it isn't going to be new. the GTO will be rust free, under warrenty (big plus), have a stronger trans right from the get go whether you chose the auto or manual, has better pcm controlling capabilities, much better paint, gen III small block, etc, etc, etc. if the money is there for the new technology, go for that.

you have to get the GTO, its awesome looking, 400HP fast ls2...forget swapping and modding and risking......

i would just wait a year or two for the new gto body style.

In the meantime buy a thirdgen.

There's going to be a new body style?

I hope so. From what i've read, GM only had a 3 year contract between Pontiac and Holden. 04-06. There's been rumors about new platforms for most of the GM cars. GM is working on the next GTO, using the austrailian engineers/designers who made the current GTO(Monaro) for Holden. It supposidly is going to be more agressive looking. I would expect it to be around 07 or 08 for this new body style. The GTO came to the US just to patch the hole that was left when the Firebird disappeared in 2002 from the Pontiac lineup. This was GM: Lets see, we have a car in austrailia that has an LS1, well designed,rwd, lets move this to the US.

Check out Holden's Monaro from down under, if you haven't already. It looks much better than the Pontiac GTO. If i had a GTO, i would swap that front bumper in a heartbeat.

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/...?modelid=12001

If you really like working on cars and don't mind not having one to drive and being stranded now and again go with the GTA. If you want a reliable warrantied performance car go with the gto. I love my thirdgen don't get me wrong, its just in the garage broken about as much as I drive it.

It looks like a mustang!

Thanks for the replys guys. Remember that was for a friend not me. I would be embarrassed to get a new GTO myself! (jk)
I wouldn't trade anything for my 87 IROC though.
later.

and a big thing everyone assumes you have 32,000 to plop down on a 3rd gen to buy it and customize it. Imagine walking into a bank asking for a 30,000 loan to buy and build a 88 GTA. They'd laugh you out into the lobby on outside. Even if they did you still wouldn't have a waranty to speak of.

If I remember correctly, the instant you make any modifications, your warranty is void.

Warranties were made to be voided...

Borrowing money is easy if you're homeowner, open a line for credit and move on.

No questions, just cash.

You need to check out the DIY PROM forum, near-flash programming is a reality with what these guys are doing with OBD1

Maybe I'm getting older...heck..I am...but I did buy my '89 new and love it.

That said, if I didn't have it and was looking for a performance car I would get the GTO...I got to take a ride in a coworkers earlier in the year, not sure if it was an '04 or '05, but it did have an automatic trans...but boy was it a fun car.

i've done flash programming on obd 1 vehicles using the moates system. this does work well and make programming just as easy as the obd 2 vehicles. you are still stuck with software that is by far outdated and mass air systems that max out if i recall around 330gms. you are also stuck with a pcm which is much slower and has less capability. with the GTO people have installed gen III engines as large as 455 cubes pumping out well over 500rwhp and run the stock pcm with mearly modified programming. if you tried that with the third gen mass air computers you'd have had to convert it to speed density since it isn't capable of reading anywhere near the airflow numbers of an engine putting down some real power. obd2 computers also allows for trans programming including shift points, line pressure adjustments, shift timings, etc. you can program a dry nitrous system to work flawlessly and retard the timing on it's own when the nitrous is used. the transmission programming capabilities alone are enough to make it worth it to me. i've been doing programming for paying customers for quite some time and i've worked with both obd1 and obd2 systems and even the in between versions. without ever pulling the engine 11's are capable from the GTO (not including nitrous or boost) with drivability as good or better than a stock one. that isn't even a thought for a third gen. i've owned 5 third gen's and enjoyed every one of them. i plan to have another in the future because the stylind of the third gen car is something that will live on forever as my favorite. the 80's technology though is something that i won't be excited about getting back into.

GTO's are so cookie cutter in design it's sickening. It looks just likw the new Honda's they are now advertisiing as car of the year :LOL: along w/250,000 recals for tranny woes. A really nice 3rd Gen is a nice adition to anyones garage. What do ya want? it's a TGO site

The design was out long before the honda. and a honda doesn't have an LS-2. That would be an ultimate swap there. a civic with an LS-2. I'd almost drive one then. I love 3rd gens, but I'd never rely on mine for being a daily driver. Now if I had unlimited funds to deal with there would be two new cars I would own. One being the GTO the other being the Ford GT