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i've been getting lots of PM's lately asking me how i did it: got my daily driven 305 powered car into the low 13's without juice or boost. well, i figured i'll right up a thread and see if the administration wants to make it a sticky or something along those lines.
My combination is very simple. HOWEVER! it does away with some of the "creature features" that some people really enjoy, and if you cannot give up these things, your results will come back alittle less extreme than mine were.
here is what i started with:
1985 305 block bored .030 over
1990 Ralley Sport.
now, i got VERY creative in my weight reduction and was able to get the weight of the car down to a solid #3010. *note* i could not have a stripped down racecar only though, the car still had full interior and sub whenever i was just cruising around. everything had to be functional too...including my power windows.
-Fiberglass hood
-Complete PowerSteering delete...went to an s10 manual box
-NO A/C whastoever, went to an A/C delete box, Heater was still retained
-GFX Delete
-Spoiler delete(probably all of 4lbs...you can leave this on if you wish)
-redid the interior using ACC carpet up front which weighed a GOOD 40lbs less.
-fourthgen seats with thirdgen manual racks, another SOLID 10lbs/each(yeah, that much)
-aluminum drumbrakes
-v6 driveshaft (i'm footbraking an auto with a mild stall...it's not going to hurt it, but i'd like to drop another 1 1/2lbs. and go to an aluminum one)
-no sound deadening material was returned to the car during the carpet installation.
-for competition, the rear seat was removed as well as the sub.
Chassis Improvements:
-spohn non-adjustable panhard rod(i ONLY went with this cause my stock one was bent)
-boxed stock LCA's with stock rubber bushings.
-LCA relocation brackets....smartest thing EVER done
-v6 springs all the way around with 1 coil trimmed
-JEGster bolt in SFC's.
-solid motor mounts
-poly t/a mount
-poly tranny mount
Safety Equipment:
-Certified Helmet
-JEGster bolt in driveshaft loop
Drivetrain Improvements *this is what you've been reading for*
-310 cubic inch small block chevy (305 .030 over)
-BONESTOCK 416 heads with a fresh valve job
-9.5:1 hyper pistons
-Crane Energizer 1.5 aluminum roller rockers
-Crane Blue Racer cam: 214*/224* .442"/.465
-Holley street dominator intake (advertised power band from idle-7200)
-Holley 650 double pumper
-air pan to seal carb to 3" cowl
-stock HEI with Accel coil and wires, stock replacement acdeclo plugs
-Hedman Longtube headers
-dual exhaust with h-pipe
-10" 2400stall ATI converter
-heavily built 700r4 with transgo shift kit, kevlar bands/clutches and a hardened sunshell
-4.10's and an eaton posi in the stock 7.5" with a stud girdle on it to help eliminate fles
-275/60/15 M/T ET Street Radials on a stock 15x7 z28 wheel w/ 20psi. 205/70/15 on stock z28 wheels up front with 40psi.
this combo after much track time and tuning netted me a 13.034@103.10mph. 60' was a 1.750 and 1/8 was 8.261@82.14mph, add a 150shot: hello 11's!
if anyone has anything else to add, please, DO SO!
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Good job but, I would like to see you port your heads up for about 230 CFM on the intake and 160 on the exhaust. That would bump power up about 40-50 HP over your somewhat anemic 416 heads. That should put you well into the 12s. My little 312 is pulling 5,300 lbs to 15.5s @ 88 with 2.4 second 60' times. I wonder what my 300 RWHP 305 would do in your 3,000 lbs F-Body. Assuming I am making atleast 360 FWHP that would be like 8.3 lbs/hp. I am soon switching to a Crane Roller cam that should bump me up to the 400 FWHP area.
well...the little 305 broke a few weeks ago...and i'm not fixing it. i'm just posting my findings...
*note* in order to keep this motor happy, you must use 93 octane with as much timing as i was running (38*ish range)
we will be putting another one together with a roller cam, but i'm not sure how crazy my buddy wants to get with it...i'd really like t push it hard, but it's his toy.
lca rb's ABSOLUTELY helped. i totally destroyed a powertrax lockright locker due to wheel hop...went back with an eaton posi and only DEAD hooked about 70% of the time...with the relocation brackets...i've NEVER spun the tires off the line.
about 2 1/2 years and 40K+ HARD miles...i NEVER took it easy on this thing...had i ran 93 octane in it, i probably would still have the motor together.
you happen to remember how far down the LCARB's you dropped the bolt? I'm going to make some, and want to only put one hole in it, the one i'll use, trying to think of how far down I want to drop the bolt hole, 1", 2"....
ok, it's 3" down from centerline and 1" towards the front of the car from the centerline. this 1" forward will compensate for the essentially shorter lca...since you moved the instant center.
Very impressive,I'm hoping to spray my way into a high 9 this spring.Sad to think that all the cash I've blown could be spanked by a 305 if you would have poured the juice on that thing!
You did a great job with your 305. Its cool to see someone do something like that on a budget with a 305 since so many people say its impossible. I'm anxious to see what you can do with your new combo.
__________________ 1984 Camaro F41 383CID (street driven on pump gas)
11:1, 256/260 .627/.622 solid/roller, Ported Dart Pro 1(215cc) , Vic Jr, Pro-Systems 850DP, Hooker LT, dual 3in exh, Yella Terra shaft mount rockers
TH-350, Edge 4200 stall, rev. full man. valve body
Moser 12 bolt w/4.30 gears, Spohn TA, subframe con., LCA rel. brkts, 6pt roll bar, 90/10 Koni struts, 50/50 shocks, Moroso trick springs, Hoosier QTP DOT 28x11.5
ok, it's 3" down from centerline and 1" towards the front of the car from the centerline. this 1" forward will compensate for the essentially shorter lca...since you moved the instant center.
Nice, 45 total myself. Stock 1989 TPI with the vette cam. I wouldn't want to strip my car out though.
still wasn't really stripped though...just did away with all the things i didn't feel i needed....i daily drive this car and the girlfriend has to be comfortable going to the movies/dinner in it...just gotta take her car on the extra hot GA summer nights...
Here is how I hit 13s in my 88 305 5 speed. Stock block and heads. Crane roller 214/222 488/509 112, edlebrock base manifold, TPIS runners, Holley 52mm TB, 350 injectors, ADJ. FPR, MSD ignition, underdrive pulleys, 1 5/8 coated headers, random tech cat, flowmaster 3" catback. Global west control arms, panhard rod, springs and 255/50 tires on 16 gta wheels. 3.70 rear gear. This car has AC full interior (batt. in the trunk) all emmission equipment and looks totally stock. The car has run 13.5@1.3mph at great lakes dragway. I get spotted car lengths on the street all the time, people laugh at my 305 with the emissions stuff making my engine bay look like crap.
I skimmed over this post earlier, but I went back and read it all through. Just thought I'd give you props for that stock LS1 killer. Nice job.
I'm currently involved in a similar project (my goal is to break into 8s in the 1/8th mile) with my 305, but I noticed a big difference between what you have done and what I am doing is weight reduction. My T/A is essentially bare-bones as far as options go, but my car is pulling double duty as a comfortable daily driver and street machine. Full interior, aftermarket sound system, A/C, power steering, sound deadener and stock seats. I kind of look to later model fourth-gens for inspiration... fully involved interior with lots of creature comforts but still able to click off 13s and lower in the quarter. That's exactly what I want.
Oh well, I guess I'll be purchasing a big blue bottle sometime in the near future.
Originally posted by Evil 88IROCZ Here is how I hit 13s in my 88 305 5 speed. Stock block and heads. Crane roller 214/222 488/509 112, edlebrock base manifold, TPIS runners, Holley 52mm TB, 350 injectors, ADJ. FPR, MSD ignition, underdrive pulleys, 1 5/8 coated headers, random tech cat, flowmaster 3" catback. Global west control arms, panhard rod, springs and 255/50 tires on 16 gta wheels. 3.70 rear gear. This car has AC full interior (batt. in the trunk) all emmission equipment and looks totally stock. The car has run 13.5@1.3mph at great lakes dragway. I get spotted car lengths on the street all the time, people laugh at my 305 with the emissions stuff making my engine bay look like crap.
By the way, what was the MPH? I'm guessing it was 103, but just wanted to make sure.
Excellent thread, excellent times! You will go down as a mentor for real go fast knowledge mw66nova its great to see a collection of what works proving itself congrats!
Sorry 103mph, with a 60FT of 2.00 on street tires!!. I want to add TFS heads, I just saw in summit they have the option for 56cc chambers so I won't loose all my compression, but gain some. Sounds like a great C-mas present to myself. I was waiting for the BS flag, everyone around things that unless its a 350 it is no faster than 14s best. That's one of the reason I started mine.
Anyone could replicate my combo, except with 305ci...and i'm sure they could get well into the 13's. My whole combo is in the link in my sig. Full weight, AC, ttops, automatic, full emissions with 2.73 gears and stock suspension (at that time).
__________________ 1987 Camaro Z28- 335ci TPI stroker, Tremec TKO 500 trans, 3.42 10 bolt 1994 Corvette - 355ci LT1, LT4 Hot Cam, Bolt ons, Z07 suspension (1 of 887 that year)
Originally posted by mw66nova i've been getting lots of PM's lately asking me how i did it: got my daily driven 305 powered car into the low 13's without juice or boost. well, i figured i'll right up a thread and see if the administration wants to make it a sticky or something along those lines.
My combination is very simple. HOWEVER! it does away with some of the "creature features" that some people really enjoy, and if you cannot give up these things, your results will come back alittle less extreme than mine were.
here is what i started with:
1985 305 block bored .030 over
1990 Ralley Sport.
now, i got VERY creative in my weight reduction and was able to get the weight of the car down to a solid #3010. *note* i could not have a stripped down racecar only though, the car still had full interior and sub whenever i was just cruising around. everything had to be functional too...including my power windows.
-Fiberglass hood
-Complete PowerSteering delete...went to an s10 manual box
-NO A/C whastoever, went to an A/C delete box, Heater was still retained
-GFX Delete
-Spoiler delete(probably all of 4lbs...you can leave this on if you wish)
-redid the interior using ACC carpet up front which weighed a GOOD 40lbs less.
-fourthgen seats with thirdgen manual racks, another SOLID 10lbs/each(yeah, that much)
-aluminum drumbrakes
-v6 driveshaft (i'm footbraking an auto with a mild stall...it's not going to hurt it, but i'd like to drop another 1 1/2lbs. and go to an aluminum one)
-no sound deadening material was returned to the car during the carpet installation.
-for competition, the rear seat was removed as well as the sub.
Chassis Improvements:
-spohn non-adjustable panhard rod(i ONLY went with this cause my stock one was bent)
-boxed stock LCA's with stock rubber bushings.
-LCA relocation brackets....smartest thing EVER done
-v6 springs all the way around with 1 coil trimmed
-JEGster bolt in SFC's.
-solid motor mounts
-poly t/a mount
-poly tranny mount
Safety Equipment:
-Certified Helmet
-JEGster bolt in driveshaft loop
Drivetrain Improvements *this is what you've been reading for*
-310 cubic inch small block chevy (305 .030 over)
-BONESTOCK 416 heads with a fresh valve job
-9.5:1 hyper pistons
-Crane Energizer 1.5 aluminum roller rockers
-Crane Blue Racer cam: 214*/224* .442"/.465
-Holley street dominator intake (advertised power band from idle-7200)
-Holley 650 double pumper
-air pan to seal carb to 3" cowl
-stock HEI with Accel coil and wires, stock replacement acdeclo plugs
-Hedman Longtube headers
-dual exhaust with h-pipe
-10" 2400stall ATI converter
-heavily built 700r4 with transgo shift kit, kevlar bands/clutches and a hardened sunshell
-4.10's and an eaton posi in the stock 7.5" with a stud girdle on it to help eliminate fles
-275/60/15 M/T ET Street Radials on a stock 15x7 z28 wheel w/ 20psi. 205/70/15 on stock z28 wheels up front with 40psi.
this combo after much track time and tuning netted me a 13.034@103.10mph. 60' was a 1.750 and 1/8 was 8.261@82.14mph, add a 150shot: hello 11's!
if anyone has anything else to add, please, DO SO!
This looks like a good group to throw this out at. I don't have time to pull engines and what not, so I'd like to just warm up the old 305. Some one said that if I found a set of "601" heads that it would bump my compression from 8.5 to 9.5. A mild cam and a set of headers could help also. I would be pleased with around 220 hp. My old computer controlled Q-jet striped at the inlet so I bought a professionaly rebuilt 700 cfm Q-jet carb for $300. But I think it might be too big for this motor.
A little history on the car. It was an origional 305 H.O. The old owner replaced the motor with an off the shelf 305. I think the prom chip? is still for the H.O. motor. It has the H.O. exhaust except I replaced the muffler with a Flowmaster. I believe the intake and exhaust manifolds are stock for the H.O. motor. Can I make this 305 perk up with a head and cam change, keeping the stock aluminum manifold and carburator? I'm in California where we have the visual and computer smog check.
Originally posted by Kevin84Z28 This looks like a good group to throw this out at. I don't have time to pull engines and what not, so I'd like to just warm up the old 305. Some one said that if I found a set of "601" heads that it would bump my compression from 8.5 to 9.5. A mild cam and a set of headers could help also. I would be pleased with around 220 hp. My old computer controlled Q-jet striped at the inlet so I bought a professionaly rebuilt 700 cfm Q-jet carb for $300. But I think it might be too big for this motor.
my cousin built a 305 TPI using nothing but stock parts,
ran a 13.9 with just headers flowmaster cat back, a hypertech chip, 5 speed and a 3.45 rear,
no lightening or removing anything from the car
oh it had sportlines and kyb's I think,
that was with a box made of 3/4 MDF and 2 10" subs in the back
barley 13's but that was only run it got to make, car was stolen shortly after and not recovered,
key to the motor was some head work, plus some lightening and balancing the bottom end
i just popped in a 1969 DZ 302 camshaft in my 305, gonna hit the track with it soon. ran a 17.3 @ 79 MPH before the camswap. im fairly sure im in the low 15's cause my mph is up to 90
Last edited by michal_larson; 04-24-2006 at 03:54 PM.
Well, summer is almost here. After I get my can painted in a few weeks, I'm going to work on the motor. I thought I saw a thread on here last fall about turing better times with a 305 using TPI. I really like the way it looks, and if I took it off to swap on a carb I can pretty much kiss goodbye driving my car on the street. CA SMOG Checks are brutal, and if the car doesn't have all the original SMOG equipment on it, I can't pass. And I do want to drive the car on weekends.
I was thinking heads, maybe headers that have the AIR plumbing on them, better exhaust, and other stuff that still leaves the car 'legal'.
Thanks, guys!
__________________ I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves.
- Ronald Reagan
i honestly wouldn't worry about the heads, don't even upgrade to a larger valve, you'll run into shrouding issues. do a back cut on the stock valves, bowl blend and smooth the runners out, you'll be happy as a pig in mud. trust me, the 081 heads work really well, i promise!
also, headers, do the hooker 2055's and a 3" catback of your choice
i honestly wouldn't worry about the heads, don't even upgrade to a larger valve, you'll run into shrouding issues. do a back cut on the stock valves, bowl blend and smooth the runners out, you'll be happy as a pig in mud. trust me, the 081 heads work really well, i promise!
also, headers, do the hooker 2055's and a 3" catback of your choice
mw66nova... why shorty headers? Wouldn't long tubes be better for the TPI... Also anyone know of headers and an exhaust system for the dual cat cars. I cant find them anymore..
i'm guessing since long tubes tend to sacrifice low end, to give more breathing room at the top end, and TPI is generally more suited to the low end, of which shorties help with.
Hold up, I thought shorty headers, ie shorter runners resonated in the higher rpms helping highend horsepower. Where are long tubes or long runners resonate at low rpm creating more torque... Maybe Im losing it, someone confirm.\\\
edit im losing it...
The reverse supercharging work best at a certain engine rev which is determined by the length of the exhaust pipe. The shorter the pipe, the lower rpm the reverse supercharging works.\\
mw66nova... why shorty headers? Wouldn't long tubes be better for the TPI... Also anyone know of headers and an exhaust system for the dual cat cars. I cant find them anymore..
if your willing to sacrifice some ground clearance, and/or do NOT need to worry about emissions, then disregard all i just said about the shorties and run a set of hedman longtubes with dual 2.5" pipes. it sounds AMAZING and will work FAR better than any shorty header and 3" single exhaust.
i'm running hedman longtubes, x-tensions, h-pipe, and summit "chambered" mufflers, which are a flowmaster knock-off.
if your willing to sacrifice some ground clearance, and/or do NOT need to worry about emissions, then disregard all i just said about the shorties and run a set of hedman longtubes with dual 2.5" pipes. it sounds AMAZING and will work FAR better than any shorty header and 3" single exhaust.
i'm running hedman longtubes, x-tensions, h-pipe, and summit "chambered" mufflers, which are a flowmaster knock-off.
The car is eventually going to end up being in New York, so I am probably stuck with shorties.... I am looking at Edelbrock Tes Shorty Headers P/N# EDL-68762, some dual catalytic convertor setup (if you have any suggestions) and I sent an email about part fitment to borla about their T304 Stainless Adjustable 3" catback. P/N 14888.
I would like to make the car as fast as possible without heavy modification, I figure a nice exhaust will drop me into the 13's as the stock TPI manifolds are the most restrictive thing known to man.
Note: I rather spend $$ once and never worry about it again.
I also need to be able to do this all by myself within a good 8 hours as I have never welded and my father says my Camaro would give his old bbc Chevelle a good run, and that I dont need to make it any faster, he is completely against me modifying my car, even a brake upgrade pisses him off cause he used to race, well like all of us in GTos' and Stangs and Chevelle and ****.. So yeah obviously.. He even gave me a 1977 "350" to work on which turned out to be a 1983 305 Lg4. without the carb.
Note: I rather spend $$ once and never worry about it again.
if this is the case, then run the hooker 2055's, but get them ceramic coated, along with the y-pipe. they flow FAR better than the edelbrock's.
as far as doing it yourself in 8 hours or less...i'd plan a whole weekend honestly.
oh, and your dad must not remember how that chevelle really ran, cause it'd put a spankin' on your car. not to be mean, but that's just the way it is. don't worry about what pop's says, just make sure you pay for everything and don't ever ask for help, even with stuff not car related, so make sure you prioritize correctly and don't allow the car stuff to get in the way. then he'll respect you for it.
i have a set of 081's but im going to give these swirls a whirl lol 
Hold up, I thought shorty headers, ie shorter runners resonated in the higher rpms helping highend horsepower. Where are long tubes or long runners resonate at low rpm creating more torque... Maybe Im losing it, someone confirm.\\\
