Tech / General EngineWhy is my car making that sound? My car won't start! Combination questions? Don't see a board for your problem or have other technical or engine specific questions? Post them here!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org!
Welcome to ThirdGen.org.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join the ThirdGen.org community today!
I've read on a thread I can't find now that LS1 valves will work in L98 heads if you install 8mm guildes. I'm wondering if you can use the valves and springs on the L98 (iron) heads if you machine the spring pockets? If anyone has info in this please inform me, there are ALOT of LS1 stock valves and springs floating around.
This ad is not displayed to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on ThirdGen!
Sponsored Links
Registered users do not see this ad. Click here to register for free!
Originally posted by 1991CamaroRslow I've read on a thread I can't find now that LS1 valves will work in L98 heads if you install 8mm guildes. I'm wondering if you can use the valves and springs on the L98 (iron) heads if you machine the spring pockets? If anyone has info in this please inform me, there are ALOT of LS1 stock valves and springs floating around.
why in the world would you want to do that?!
you dont need LS1 valves to run the beehive LS1 style springs....
and SBC valves are ALOT cheaper the LS1 valves..
i think you would probly want to do more research on whats out there before persuing a specific set of valves....
Because I can get LS1 valves for 30 dollars and the springs for another 30. From what I understand the LS1 valves are a better design than the standard L98 valves, are lighter, and stronger; only drawback is you have to use the 8mm guides. I'm not talking about performance LS1 valves here I'm talking about stock LS1 valves that people have removed to do larger valves, and I've seen a thread where people recommended stock LS1 valves as a viable option for L98 head rebuilds. Another person tells me that the spring seats will need to be cut to get the beehive springs to fit.
Yes it can be done pretty easily. I got some LS1 valves, beehive springs, keepers and retainers off of ebay for about $30. You do need to install new 8mm valve guides though. The springs will fit in the stock pockets.
I might install my LS1 garb on my 416 heads when i port them for the hell of it.
__________________ LT1 headed LG4 305 beast! Comp Solid lifter XS-262-10S, 1.6 Roller Rockers, 10.2:1, Holley 4160 600cfm, modded Weiand 7502 intake to fit LT1 heads____ Custom cylinder head cooling. Weiand 8208 Short Water Pump____TH-350 3 series 3.73 with 2 series posi and spacer____ Hedman Hedders 1 5/8 headers and Y-pipe 3in Exhaust, Dynomax 3" Bullet muffler ____Moroso Ultra 40 Wires ACCEL HEI Super Coil ____Competition Engineering 3120 Bolt-on SFC's____Homemade: Wonderbar, solid tie rod sleeves, Aluminum LCA and Panhard Rod with spherical rod ends, alternator and PS bracket, Strut tower brace, and Decoupling torque arm with telescoping link.
3000lbs
"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power."
-FDR
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
-- President George W. Bush
During a photo-op with Congressional leaders on 12/18/2000.
Thanks!!! It was your post 305SBC that I originally read mentioning LS1 valves and springs on regular small block heads. Do you know how much lift and RPM the stock LS1 springs can handle? Or a better question would be will they control a set of LS1 valves on .520 lift up to around 6300rpm? I'm pretty sure they will because the stock LS1 cam is around these numbers and the LS6 cams are above it.
Originally posted by 88IROC350TPI I'm confused as to why you'd wanna put "LS1 valves" into a mediocre head like iron L98's. Seems like a hassle with almost no gains whatsoever.
exactly.
any cost benifit from used LS1 valves is offset by the cost of the 8mm guides.
now the springs, i can totally understand. you can get a set of new "z06" springs for cheap... athough personally, id go with comp 918s if i was putting them in my car...
btw, comp makes some cheap steel retainers that will hold the LS1 springs (or 918s) on a standard SBC valve.
I agree, you would not want to put LS1 valves in a 350 head with 1.94" or larger valves. IIRC LS1 valves are 1.90". But they would work good in 305 heads on a 305.
I have the purple LS6 springs too. They are going on my ported 416 heads.
hmm I was told the LS1 valves were 2.00 1.55 from the factory this is why I was looking into them, thanks for the heads up before I bought a pair and really regretted it. Does anyone know how much lift a set of standard LS1 springs can sustain?
"I agree, you would not want to put LS1 valves in a 350 head with 1.94" or larger valves. IIRC LS1 valves are 1.90". But they would work good in 305 heads on a 305."
From this post, if the LS1 valves and springs are an easy install they would seem ideal, if they're 2.00 1.55 with some porting they would definetly flow better than the stock 1.94 1.50's, this post seems to be bringing out alot of misinformation. 305sbc you have actually done this setup, do you think it's worth the effort? I KNOW my heads need new guides and they're the iron L98 heads (Camaro TPI 350 heads) this would seem like a good cheap way to step them up a notch with some port and polish work.
Why stop at 2"? Pontiac, Buick, and SBF valves can fit SBC heads just as easily. It's been done for decades. Some of the old Pontiac 350s used 2.11/1.77" valves that were very lightweight. Granted, if you're getting take-outs for next to nothing, there is a cost consideration, but running somone else's used gear in a valve train without thorough inspection is at least a little questionable to me.
As an aside, remember when "behive" and "ovate wire" valve springs were first introduced? Many people remarked how unconventional they were, and now the factory is using them with success. It's generally good to keep an open mind.
The other good thing about lS1 valves is there usually lower mileage take outs so there's not as much of a chance you're going to run into worn out gear. I could open them up to 2.02 1.60 but once again it's the price consideration. I wouldn't take springs out of different old SBC heads and re use them in my car because you never know how old they are and what they've been through. The same can be said for the LS1 valves but since they've only been around for about 7 years there's less of a chance you'll run into duds.
Originally posted by 305sbc Yes that is correct. Whoever said they are smaller is incorrect.
Sorry i'm retarted the correct size is 2.00 and 1.55"
__________________ LT1 headed LG4 305 beast! Comp Solid lifter XS-262-10S, 1.6 Roller Rockers, 10.2:1, Holley 4160 600cfm, modded Weiand 7502 intake to fit LT1 heads____ Custom cylinder head cooling. Weiand 8208 Short Water Pump____TH-350 3 series 3.73 with 2 series posi and spacer____ Hedman Hedders 1 5/8 headers and Y-pipe 3in Exhaust, Dynomax 3" Bullet muffler ____Moroso Ultra 40 Wires ACCEL HEI Super Coil ____Competition Engineering 3120 Bolt-on SFC's____Homemade: Wonderbar, solid tie rod sleeves, Aluminum LCA and Panhard Rod with spherical rod ends, alternator and PS bracket, Strut tower brace, and Decoupling torque arm with telescoping link.
3000lbs
"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power."
-FDR
"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
-- President George W. Bush
During a photo-op with Congressional leaders on 12/18/2000.
Obviously the exact install height depends on how much is cut to match the valve seat to the larger valve. It starts out at 1.790 but once the seats are re-cut increases to 1.80" and this is using the stock LS1 retainer and keepers.
Comparison to the stock L98(083) intake valve in the L98(083) head:
None of this data is copied from anywhere else. I took all measurements in my garage tonight.
I have edited this to correct a typo and update some of the info like the 083 valvespring bind variation from spring to spring, and to include the weight of the oil shield (11 grams) in with the factory valvetrain weights.
Originally posted by 1991CamaroRslow " 305sbc you have actually done this setup, do you think it's worth the effort?
Yes I do think it's worth the effort. I recently got a used set of LS1 valves, retainers, keepers, and springs for $40 on ebay. The LS1 valves are much better quality pieces than stock L98, not to mention better flowing and lighter in weight. They are usually low miles and I've not noticed any wear problems. It may have to do with the fact that LS1 heads come from the factory with very nice bronze guides. Valves coming out of iron heads w/iron guides seem to show more wear.
I would only run the stock LS1 springs in a stock or very mild application. If you look over the spring data you can see why I'd prefer the 918's for a performance application. If you're keeping the lift down to .500" or lower then the stock LS1 springs should be fine. I like to have a little more pressure on the seat for an aggressive cam lobe than the stock LS1 springs offer. The Z06 springs are much better and allow more lift. If you look around you can get these at reasonable cost.
The new design 918's can easily go over .700" lift if you cut the spring pockets .050" deeper.
Another option is to use the lightweight 2002 and up Z06 valves.
intake: 73 grams
exhaust: 65 grams
These can be had for $220 new from certain places. This doesn't sound cheap, but for what they are it's a good deal. These are lighter than most titanium valves.
__________________________________
If you're looking for more RPM then this swap offers lighter valvetrain parts along with a conical spring.
If you're looking for flow, this swap offers larger valve head area along with a smaller 8mm -0.314" stem. Factory type 23* heads flow air primarily across the back of the valve, so the LS1 valve has a nice advantage in head shape and the thinner stem. A flat backed valve is the best choice for the older factory iron heads using moderate valve lifts.
The small size and shape of the LS1 retainer leaves lots of clearance for the beefy rockers. This helps out those people who prefer to run a pushrod on the short side. It's also lighter weight than most titanium retainers. The LS1 steel retainer and keepers combo weighs 13.5 grams.
As for parts upgrade this swap would be tough to beat for the cost. If combined with good porting to match the valves, the flow potential is great.
Now there's some solid info, 305sbc you have been one of the most helpful people I've found in these forums. My cam is Lingenfelters #74216 specs are 213/219 duration @ .050 .493"/.502". I'm pretty sure I can get away with the regular LS1 springs because my motor will never rev over 6000 rpm. My only other concern will be if I can still use my self aligning roller rockers on the LS1 valves, I'll check that out when I get the springs and keepers here. What're the measurements across the keepers on the LS1 valves?
Originally posted by vorgath Those Z06 valves, what diameter is the stem, and how big are the valves ? 2.00 and 1.55 or what ??
Yes, the same size as LS1 8mm stem 2.0/1.55
The roller contacts the valve tip which is also 8mm, so your rockers would be too sloppy IMO unless you ran lash caps.
I always run guide plates instead of the self-aligners. I just think they work better, more dependable, etc.
Yours should work if you could track down the right size lash caps.
I'd contact Comp or Ferrea. You'd just ask for something to fit on a 8mm valve tip and also inside your aligners.
They should be cheap.
Just trying to add info here. Why don't you use the scoggindicky Z28 springs . They are stock diamter and are the highest preasure recomended for hydraulic lifters . I am running them in my 083's with a little ZZ4 camshaft.
part number SD1007 @ 1.8 =120 lbs @ 1.2 350 lbs . 1.250 diameter. They are good for .570 lift aswell so that will cover pretty much all you will need in a street setup.
They would be good in a high revving application.
...just thought I'd pass it along. I think I payed around 45 for everything.
__________________ PROJECT UGLY DUCKLING
1989 10:1 353 L98Edlebrock base and runners ( really ported)ZZ4cam ,1 3/4 SLP shorties 083 heads ...cleaned up andstuded w/1.52 rr , LT4 valve springs and retainers and a 3 angle valve job
suspension mods (Hotchkis LCA's PH bar, KYB shocks and struts)
T-5 3.73
T-62 turbo to be installed next ...Exhaust clip ...gota let it load.... http://media.putfile.com/My-exhaust-clip
Originally posted by 1991CamaroRslow Now there's some solid info, 305sbc you have been one of the most helpful people I've found in these forums. My cam is Lingenfelters #74216 specs are 213/219 duration @ .050 .493"/.502".
We have the identical cam, and lingenfelter recommended the Comp 986 duel spring and when I went to the comp cams site and asked a tech a questions , he replied with the 986 or even moving up to the 987 due to the agressiveness of the ramps. Seat pressure was 132lbs at 1.750 I believe with an open pressure of 285lbs
VERY good article . I had no idea they were that benificial .
__________________ PROJECT UGLY DUCKLING
1989 10:1 353 L98Edlebrock base and runners ( really ported)ZZ4cam ,1 3/4 SLP shorties 083 heads ...cleaned up andstuded w/1.52 rr , LT4 valve springs and retainers and a 3 angle valve job
suspension mods (Hotchkis LCA's PH bar, KYB shocks and struts)
T-5 3.73
T-62 turbo to be installed next ...Exhaust clip ...gota let it load.... http://media.putfile.com/My-exhaust-clip
Re - 305 heads.
You can see most of the work in the one picture above. They have been machined for screw-in studs & guideplates, and the guide bosses were machined down some. The pushrod holes in the heads are also opened up.
The older heads have to have either 8mm guides installed or the 8mm guide liners installed to fit the LS1 valve-stem. The valve seats in the heads are opened up some and given a new valvejob so the valves will seat.
The LS1 rockers aren't neccessary for the conversion. To put those on I had to drill the fulcrums of the rockers to fit the larger studs.
Porting isn't neccessary either, but it is desirable and those heads are ported.
Reconditioning most used heads requires at least guideliners, seals and a fresh valvejob anyway, and people usually want the screw-in studs, guideplates, and pushrod holes drilled so they can run a performance camshaft without worries.
The springs on those heads are good to about 0.600" lift with no machining of the spring pockets, but more lift is possible with the machining.
How much are we looking at, cost, of installing the LS1 valves, 8mm guides, spring seats cut down ? Machine shop cost
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out my babe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What if I just wanted to use the LS1 springs with stock l98 valves? I already have read that the springs fit in the seats, would I just need to use the LS1 retainers since the spring is more narrow at the top? I believe the locks are both 7* also. I plan on running low .500 lift cam, I am concerned about the pressed in studs. Obviously spring height measurement would be the best way to check max lift. Also just drill out the stock LS1 rocker and they work? Man if this is the case I found a use for me stock LS1 crap that has been taking up space on the shelf for a few years!
Ok after continuing to search around the max lift will be limited to about .480 because of the valve guides. Still I hope the ls1 springs will work b/c that would be free upgrade for me.
Last edited by 3rd gen Will; 07-02-2009 at 01:05 PM.
About all of this has been covered, and it's off topic of this thread but oh well, let me explain your simplest solution right quick. The LS1 springs will work just fine, the LS1 retainers will not (LS1 valve stems are smaller). You'll need the Comp cams retainers, I believe the part number is 787 - 16 but double check it, you want the beehive retainers for 11/32 stem valves. Once you install the beehives and the comp retainers you can go past .480 lift, I believe you can go to around .550 or so because the retainers don't sit as low as the stockers did.
