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Friend of mine wants to sell me his Vortec heads from Pro Topline. They are Iron. He wants 600$ for them.
170cc intake runners
1.94/1.5 valves
120lbs closed, 275lbs open springs, good for .540 lift
What deal here would be a better deal? Will brodix really make that much more power to where it would be worth 400$ more? Keep in mind that if I do the vortecs I might be able to go with a new TPI baseplate from edelbrock.
well I'd defenatly go whith the Brodix heads...they are arguably the best out there, and the power they will make compared to the vortec heads is amazing, esp. if U go W/ a big cam
__________________ 84 Z-28 in the prosess of re-build:
383, steel crank, forged pistons 4 bolt block .040 over
comp cams nitrous XP 288HR
Adv dur 288/315
Dur@.050 236/248
LSA 113
valve lift .520/.540
"quiet" gear drive
polished and ported trick flow 23* heads
comp P/N 26918-16 beehive valve springs
steel full roller rockers
edelbrock pro-flow 1000 CFM EFI port mached to heads
Venom 36 lb injectors
edelbrock nitrous sys, 150 shot
hooker 2210 1 3/4 pri headers
powermaster starter
powermaster alternator, 160 amp
'97 T-56 transmission
centerforce dual friction clutch
pro 5.0 shifter
richmond 3.73 gears
eaton posi
spohn K-member
spohn "wonderbar"
spohn torque arm/crossmember
spohn lower control arms
spohn A-arms
spohn panhard bar
spohn subframe connectors
dual exauast, 3" up to cut outs
nordskog digital dashbord
trippel gauge pilar mount
digital fuel press.
digital nitrous pressure gauge
digital oil temp gauge
Keep this in mind too: The cam I am going with is .452/.465 lift and 214/220 duration. It's a CompuCam from Cranecams. Also, I think he is throwing in a set of 1.52 Comp Cams roller rockers...still have to clear that up though.
With that small of a cam I would go with the vortec heads. Although I would try and talk him down in price because someone I know got a complete assembled pair of Topline Vortec heads for $550 shipped to his door and they werent second hand. The heads also had some minor cleanup done to them. Remember Topline went out of bussiness so if you have any problems or need a replacement a matching head will be harder to find. Not sure of the difference of the RHS head but they are a bit pricier.
Save up a few more bucks and buy a better head. Even the IK200's are a budget head, lower than the Race Rites.. The stud bosses are kinda weak, decks aren't very thick, heavy valves and the ports aren't that much better than what you'll find in those vortecs. Between those two heads, I would get the Brodix still because you'll have the advantages of an aluminum head. I would, however, save up a couple more bucks and get a set of Race Rite heads. They're the least I would put on a performance motor. They've got a little better vavles, chambers are much better and so are the ports. They've got thicker decks and the heads are just a lot stronger. They've also got angle plugs
Why would you suggest 200 cc port heads especially with that cam in a 350. I would think the port velocity would be ****. I can tell you the those vortec heads are at least good for 12.44 @ 106.81MPH since thats what one of the guys with a 357 is pulling now.
Pick up the new Chevy High Performance and read the head test they do in there...you might be surprised. Their budget is $1000 for heads and they test 8 of them...
HTH.
__________________ Adam
-on hiatus- 88 GTA- 406/700R4, HSR, Pro 220cc alum heads-Griffin- Victor Jr. WP
-91 RS/Z28 - 350 TPI, T-5, 3.73 posi, DFI to 730 swap, SLP CAI/Full Exh, etc
Because I didn't see where he mentioned what cam he was using. 12.40's in a 3600 lb TPI car with that cam? Nuh uh. Especially not with 2.73's and you know he's got the stock converter.
No the car is definately not TPI. Hes running a carb and the weight is pretty close. Not saying he shouldnt get different heads but he suggested that cam. Yeah he is also running a 3.73 gear with a TH350. But trap speeds are a very good indication of hp. Funny thing this is his second attempt at the track since he just slapped these heads on like a couple months ago. He still trying to dial everything in.
Pick up the new Chevy High Performance and read the head test they do in there...you might be surprised. Their budget is $1000 for heads and they test 8 of them...
HTH.
Yeah I heard about that article. Supposedly, vortecs held their own very well against some aluminum race heads.
Also, and I should have mentioned this before. This car is my daily driver that I will be using on the street everyday. I honestly don't want to pay $400 more for 50lbs shaved off, and maybe 5hp. I plugged in both setups to DD to the T, and saw a gain with Brodix of 6hp. Even with a stealth ram setup, I see the same gains. Now, I know that DD isn't the most accurate program, but it's giving me an idea of what I will be seeing.
And I was also thinking that with 200cc intake runners, it would be too much for the cam I am running, which is why I think 170cc might be more suiting.
But the only thing that is making me shy away is the fact that I will need to shell out 400$ more for a vortec baseplate, breaking me even of where I would be if I just got Brodix heads.
__________________ LT1 headed LG4 305 beast! Comp Solid lifter XS-262-10S, 1.6 Roller Rockers, 10.2:1, Holley 4160 600cfm, modded Weiand 7502 intake to fit LT1 heads____ Custom cylinder head cooling. Weiand 8208 Short Water Pump____TH-350 3 series 3.73 with 2 series posi and spacer____ Hedman Hedders 1 5/8 headers and Y-pipe 3in Exhaust, Dynomax 3" Bullet muffler ____Moroso Ultra 40 Wires ACCEL HEI Super Coil ____Competition Engineering 3120 Bolt-on SFC's____Homemade: Wonderbar, solid tie rod sleeves, Aluminum LCA and Panhard Rod with spherical rod ends, alternator and PS bracket, Strut tower brace, and Decoupling torque arm with telescoping link.
3000lbs
"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power."
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During a photo-op with Congressional leaders on 12/18/2000.
I'd keep your stock heads then and port them up. Going to vortecs with TPI makes no sense, you need a new base. Also TPI can't support big heads so you need something aroundd 170-180 cc's. I'd look for something else. Try some dart iron eagles or some RHS heads.
If I was going to go with vortecs, (They work very well and are a good match to what you have and are trying to achieve) I would not invest $400 in a TPI (vortec base). I would buy a "RamJet" intake manifold. Like the intake used on GM's 350 ramjet crate motor. Then you'd see what the vortecs can really do.
The stock long tube small runner TPI intake manifold is the choke point in the system on your car. If you want to run the stock runners, I would port the stock heads (YOURSELF) and put in larger valves. These heads will flow plenty (much more than you need) when ported. And end up with more velocity than the 200cc heads. You'll get the most bang for the $$$'s.
You could port your heads. You could get another set of 350TPI heads to port. You could get a set of 305 TPI heads to port and install larger valves. They all have the same power potential once you're all done. (305 TPI heads (081) can be had for a song).
This can be done for much less than either a vortec swap or buying new aluminum heads.
I know you guys like doing the home porting thing but from what im told you really need a flow bench to get this right. I mean the simplest things you do can make turbulence in the ports and you wont really know till you have a flow bench to hear the difference. I know you can get them to perform better but a flow bench would really make the porting worth while. This is pretty damn interesting though. I have seen someone get 250 cfm at .500 with World S/R heads with mild porting. These heads as cast couldnt even break the 200 cfm barrier. I think he said he would have eneded up at about 230 if it wasnt for the flow bench since it helped get rid of any turbulence.
Heres the new times with the topline vortec heads i mentioned before. hes starting to dial them in well. Just trying to give the potential for the topline/RHS vortec heads. This is a carbed application though.
Nice numbers...the Brodix heads are in the mail though =). I would have gone Vortec, but I would have had to adapt to a vortec baseplate...which would have put me even with just getting Brodix heads. At least now I can get an LT1 or HSR in the future, I have somewhere to expand you know?
Yeah they are some nice numbers. Im really curious at what changes when he decides to switch to a vortec style intake. I think I have mentioned he is still running the stock pre-86 head style carb intake so its definatley not running optimum even with his good trap and 1/4 mile times.
Quote:
At least now I can get an LT1 or HSR in the future
Why wouldnt you be able to get an HSR for a vortec? Im pretty sure they make one and it isnt that much different in price.
check out the aug 06 issue of chevy high performance. tested on 383 heads from aerohead racing, edlebrock performer, scroggin vortec, rhs lightening, competition products, trick flow, world motown and dart.
no doubt about it vortecs are hard to beat. check it out........
tq hp
aerohead 440 389
edlebrk 458 405
vortec 445 392
rhs 432 381
comptn 428 377
trick flo 428 377
wrld motn 445 393
dart 447 396
all the heads were more expensive than the vortecs. most by about
$300. heck and for $300 you can have a little work done to em.
no doubt about it vortecs are hard to beat. check it out........
tq hp
aerohead 440 389
edlebrk 458 405
vortec 445 392
rhs 432 381
comptn 428 377
trick flo 428 377
wrld motn 445 393
dart 447 396
all the heads were more expensive than the vortecs. most by about
$300. heck and for $300 you can have a little work done to em.
hope this helps your decision.
All the heads where more expensive than the Vortecs other than the Aerohead Racing heads. Those are actually Dart 165cc Iron Eagles for $625.
The Vortecs they used for that test were the "upgraded" heads from Scoggin-Dickey which cost $680.
The only real disadvantage the Iron Eagles suffered from was 73cc combustion chambers which kept the compression down a little more than the other heads.
Just trying to keep the information accurate.
BTW, those Edelbrock RPM heads kicked butt!! I was pleasantly surprised, to say the least.
those were actually the dart iron eagle 215cc. I wish the 165cc made that power. I have a set of used 165's and if you think that they made that much power I will sell them to you. And by the way those were average power and torque figures. Those darts were also 65cc combustion chambers.
I just read the tech article online. Look at it here. Dart Cylinder Heads They are not the 165s
Evidently you didn't read my first post very well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ_92RS
All the heads where more expensive than the Vortecs other than the Aerohead Racing heads. Those are actually Dart 165cc Iron Eagles for $625.
From the same article that you linked .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP Magazine
One of the bargains we tested was the Aerohead small-block Chevy head, featuring a larger com-bustion chamber than most tested. It should be noted that this netted a lower compression ratio. These reconditioned Dart Iron Eagle S/S heads produced a healthy torque number of 475 lb-ft at 3,900 rpm and 430 horses at 5,700 rpm. With these heads you can gain power and save money.
Those heads you have are the ones they're talking about.
I'll give you $50 for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slohand
oops, sry for the error. it was very late, no excuses though. thanks for the correction.
Not really an "error". Just wanted people to know there are other options than the Vortecs for about the same money.
Truth be known, I'd rather have the Brodix IK180 heads.
oh, now i see. sorry for the mistake. did arrowhead do any porting to these castings? Are they reconditioned with undercut valves? Interesting....I like what I see. No I will not sell them for $50 now. I only paid $385 for them.
I called aerohead (they are here in Indiana actually) and those are Dart S/S straight out of the box brand new. The reconditioned was a misprint.With some porting and undercut valves it seems these heads might be keepers. Any cam suggestions for running on a 383 TPI? They have the XE274 in the test but that seems a bit much for the LTR.
I was pleasantly surprised, to say the least. 
