SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Hey everyone,

Im in a dilemma at the moment.

Heres the deal, im 16 years old, just finishing up my first cam swap. Now my dad has limited me to an LT1 cam for this summer as its my first year driving. Next year how ever i am allowed to put in a new engine, but i still have some limits (i know it sucks living with your parents rules )

Anyways, the deal is, i can use a 350 in the car, but im limited to valvetrain/piston/induction/exhaust, heads cannot be ported or changed, No fancy boring, or stroking, just a strait forward 350, that doesnt exeed 300hp. However, if i use a 305, due to the smaller bore, i have no limits, any exhaust, any intake, any cam, any pistons, and heads, as much porting as i can do, make as much hp as i can wring out etc.

Now, i will be using an LTR system, with high flow parts, Edelbrock TES headers, and then i would port the **** out of the 081 heads, and do some other work on it.

Im just curious now to see what power numbers you are making with your 305, and whether you would say build my 305, or build a 350.

Please list the key components to your 305.

Thanks!

Sheldon

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

ehhhhh....build a 350.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

Heh, mild 350, using stock components like, oh Vortec heads and intake, will far out perform a 305 for a lot less money. Also, don't get the TES headers from Edelbrock, use the Hooker 2055's. Still emissions legal but built a little better.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

This is the old shortblock that came out of my Van and got a bigger cam and ported ZZ4 heads to go into my 1988 GMC Jimmy 2wd model when the 4.3 croaks or I get bored.

423 Flywheel Horsepower @ 6,500 RPM. I have not had the engine in a car yet with this combo, but I bet it would do low 12s in a 3rd gen with traction.

Block = 1983 4-Bolt main 305 (14010203 casting), Bored .040" over, Torque plate honed, Decked .025", ARP Main Studs, Align Bored

Crank = Stock GM Forged Steel (3941188), Lightened, Smoothed, Knive Edged, etc for less windage, balanced with the entire rotating assembly

Bearings = Federal Mogul Speed Pro Coated

Rods = X casting rods, Parting lines ground down, Lightened, Balanced, Shot Peened, Weights Matched, ARP Wave Loc 3/8 Rod Bolts, Reconditioned

Pistons = Stock L69 Hypereutetic Replacements, Flattops with 4 valve reliefs, -6 cc, 0.00" in the hole

Rings - Total Seal Gapless rings

Compression = 10.7:1 with 54cc heads, Zero Decked block, .038" compressed head gasket.

Heads - Ported 2004 ZZ4 castings ("463"s), cleaned up in my garage, final "MAX EFFORT" port work performed by my buddy in his machine shop, .100" longer valves than stock (1.94/1.55 Under Cut Stems, Swirl polished), 5 angle valve job, Forget the exact spring but they are meant for the cam and .100" longer than stock valves, .600 lift compatible. I had to use longer than stock push rods as well. Machined heads for Comp Cams guide plates after opening up pushrod holes in heads. Gasket matched to a Felpro 1206 (1.34" x 2.21")

Head flow @ 28 in/h20 with a 3.75" bore simulator (engine has 3.776" bore).
Lift------Intake---Exhaust
.100------57-------57
.200------123------118
.300------177------162
.400------223------183
.500------229------188
.600------238------193

Camshaft = Comp retrofit roller XFI280-H13 (280/288 @ .006, 230/233 @ .050, .576/.570" lift with 1.6:1 rocker, 113 LSA, 106 ICL) Cloyes Double roller timing set

Intake Manifold = Holley Projection TBI for "OLD" style heads with the same bolt angle. This intake is a dual plane, high rise, with 2" bores. Gasket matched to the Felpro 1206 intake gasket

TBI = TBI unit off of a Heavy Duty 7.0 liter TBI truck, 68# injectors at 32 PSI, 2" bores, thinned throttle shafts, radiused the entrance to the bores, sitting on a 1" tall open center TBI spacer, 720 CFM @ 3.00 in/hg

Headers/Exhaust = Hooker Super Comp 1 3/4" x 3.5" meant for a mid 70s Camaro with a 350. 3" duals with X-pipe (not used on dyno)

Ignition = Stock GM HEI EST small cap distributer (computer controlled) with MSD coil, MSD Module, Moroso Ultra 40 wires, AC Delco Rapidfires @ .045"

Oil System = Moroso Blue Printed Oil Pump w/ Pickup, Moroso Steel Shaft, Moroso 5 quart pan, Moroso Oil Control Kit, Mobil 1 5w20, 70 PSI Z/28 spring

Crankcase Evac = LT1 style Electric AIR pump pulling a crankcase vacuum of about 6 in/hg.

ECM = RBob's EBL with lots of tuning. 34* total advance @ 2,800 rpm.

Dyno Numbers (all rounded to the nearest whole number for simplicity)

RPM------HP----TQ
2,400----147----323
2,600----166----336
2,800----185----347
3,000----207----362
3,200----223----365
3,400----238----368
3,600----263----384
3,800----281----388
4,000----301----395
4,200----322----403
4,400----347----414
4,600----363----414
4,800----378----413
5,000----382----401
5,200----393----397
5,400----401----390
5,600----410----385
5,800----417----378
6,000----421----369
6,200----422----357
6,400----423----347
6,600----419----333

That is 423 FWHP @ 6,500 and 415 ft/lbs @ 4,500.

Here is what it sounds like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XLXwAXkDHo

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

You can make a hot 305 which will scare your dad, but i'd go straight to the 350. It'll be milder, get better mileage due to the mildness, and will have a higher ceiling for later when you have no limits to your mods.

83Chevy__Camaro

i like the 305, i added some goodies to mine, people always talk crap about 305, when its damn near close to a 350, and original, which is why i kept mine, its way more fun telling the deuce you just raced you beat him with a 305 haha

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Why don't you talk your dad into letting you build a 350 with some Vortec heads and the ZZ4 cam. Get the base for the Vortecs and you'll be putting down some serious power. This combo may sound mild but in all honesty it will put out some serious power and UNREAL torque. I don't understand why you can't break 300hp, is your dad going to make you put a smaller cam in it, change heads if it goes over? Is he going to dyno the engine before you put it in? Just doesn't make alot of sense to me.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

1991CamaroRslow is right, a mild 350 will break 300hp in no time flat with just basic mods. But, I'd still go for the 350 because of the higher ceiling later on. There's just so much more you can do with it.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

I've got 195rwhp and 273rwtq in my little 305.
Only mods are Holley Stealth Ram, hookers headers, borla muffler and K&N filter.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Key components to a 305 build would be ported L98 aluminum heads, 1.6 roller rockers for the LT1 cam and a ported base/plenum. These are the real power mods for your car, everything else like gutted air box, exhaust, prom tuning, would basically be supporting mods for the more powerful engine. However for the price of these you could probably fund a junkyard Vortec 350 and with a Vortec style base you'de be making more power than the 305 would make. I'de go the conservative route and buy a complete Vortec 350 from a truck, sell the intake that comes with it and use that money to fund a Vortec style base, heck if you don't have emissions you could even go with the Vortec style Stealth ram and really build some power.

mourningyou

Get a fully forged 305 and put as much nitrous as possible on it.

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the responses everyone!

Just want to let you know, my dad is limiting my parts choise. I wont dyno the engine, untill its in the car.

I like the idea of a 305 for a few reasons, but mainly because no one else builds them.

I have 2 roller 305's readily avaliable, on a stand in the garage. The 350, i have one, but its knocking in several area's and would definately need a bore and complete clean up.

If i were to build the 305, im thinking of the following parts:
L98 Aluminum Heads
Hypereutectic flat top pistons
Stainless valves
Beehive springs
Hardened pushrods
Pro Mag roller lifters
LT1 cam, or LT4 hotcam
Edelbrock TES headers (already have these)
or SLP Shorty headers
Edelbrock High Flow TPI base
SLP High flow Runners
Air foil
Plenum porting
Convert to Speed density, and put on open element air cleaner

Since i have no limit on 305 power, im hoping i could reach 350hp with those mods. Id retain the stock rotating assembly apart from the pistons. Would replace all bearings, freeze plugs etc.

Let me know what you think.

Sheldon

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Skip over the L98 Aluminum heads (the 113s) and go straight for the ZZ4 463 castings. They have much cleaner, higher flowing ports, and are compatible with .525" lift from the get-go.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Good point, I didn't know the heads were that much different but now that i hear that . Skip over the Edelbrock base and stick with porting your stock base. If you want to upgrade go with the Holley Stealth Ram. I also wouldn't spend money on new headers, however if you have a Flowmaster catback on it, change the muffler. DO NOT convert to SD and put the open element on it, you will lose power. Keep the MAF take out the screens, gut the bottoms of your air boxes and run some ducting down to the fog light holes. As for the cam the LT1 cam and the LT4 hot cam are VERY different cams. I personally feel the ZZ4 cam would be a better match for a 305 due to the shorter duration. As for the 350hp goal, Fast355 would be the guy to talk to about that. I know with the mods you have listed and what's recommended here you could make a very stout performer. I'm sure your dad won't let you nitrous the car will he? If he will then you can put "75" jets in it.... meaning the number .075.

mourningyou

Another thing you might want to consider is... will a 350hp 305 outrun a 300hp 350? if your car is light enough i'm sure that the 305 could push it to a respectable time, but if you are running a full weight car perhaps the extra torque will push you to a faster ET. are you limited on torque production?

83CAMAROMAN

i say go with the 305 to please your dads limits and then when you get the limits lifted...transfer your part to the 350....or stick with the 305 and have fun...i have a 305 in my camaro and i love telling guys its not a 350 when i beat em...

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

The car will have a few things to take a bit of weight out of the car. I dont have a a set limit on TQ for a 350, but he said he will limit the total power output.

My goal is low 13s wit the 305. I will have a stage 2 shift kit in the tranny, and my 3.42 rear.

I have removed the a/c and may take a few other little things out to cut down on weight.

Sheldon

mourningyou

My brother's Monte Carlo runs a 14.5 @ around 91 with:

stock 305 heads
new valve springs
performer rpm intake, holley carb
headers, dual exhaust
edelbrock performer cam (204/211 .415? lift IIRC) flat tappet
TH350
3.73 posi rear end
TCI torque converter (listed 2200 but flashes at like 17-1800 due to 305 powah)

This is a gutted car. 3050 pounds. Our best 60' so far is 2.2, the damn torque converter is almost no better than stock. If you go by the common theory that 1 tenth 60 foot is 2 tenths in the quarter, a reasonable 1.8 60 ft would put us into the 13's. This is with stock heads and a baby cam.

ws6gta89

If you are planning on putting a 350 in it no matter what?If so then i wouldnt waste to much time on a cam or even heads just get some simple bolt=ons like headers,cold air,new muffler,coil,plugs,wires,cap,rotor and module and talk your dad into letting you get a start on building the 350 but not putting it in until he thinks your ready that way everyhting is fresh not the top end old and the bottom new because you dont know how long he might make you wait, i wonder if your dad has any clue on what a little 305 can do if you "built it"

rgarcia63

Fast355, is there a type-O on the Mortec site?

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

I plan on putting a 350 in forsure, yes.

The thing is, it wont be in there for another few years, as i want to build my 350 right. I have a full plan for it, and im going to town with it, no expenses spairs (gotta love having no debts or obligations yet)

The parts i would spend the money on for my 305 would be able to transfer over to a 350, things like roller rockers, headers, stall convertors, AL driveshafts, High Flow TPI parts etc.

I would NOT be buying new heads for the 305, i am going to either re-use my LT1 cam, or look for an LT4 cam to keep cost down. The heads in the 305 would be all cleaned up, fully ported, get new valvesprings, new retainers, locks etc.

The only parts that obviously wouldnt be transferable, would be pistons, rings, bearnigs, freeze plugs and all that stuff.

I could just build a mild 350 now, but i for 1. like the fast 305 idea, and 2. only have one 350 at the moment and want to do that one up right.

Sheldon

86Z

iTrader: (4)

381hp/400ft lbs so far on my 305 oh thats to the wheels

SheldonZ28

iTrader: (1)

Holy Crap!

What parts are you using?!

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

A procharger helps him out.

matt_p

Love the 305 you have built fast355. Been thinking about doing something just like that to my 305. But with a stealth ram. Except I want to keep my stock bottom end. Replacing the rod and main bolts would be obvious and easy, but I don't know about the rest.

86Z

iTrader: (4)

lol yeah, specs in sig

rx7speed

as has been said on here many times over many years

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I have contacted them about it. Basically told me I was wrong. Sent them pictures of it as well. Finally got answered that some Canadian truck engines had 4 bolt mains and was pointed toward the note on the earlier 305 engines. They would never acknowledge the factory 4-bolt.

I have a copy of the email on my computer or web server. Would have to dig to find it.

Took atleast 6 of us over on Chevytalk.com pushing them to change the listing on the 601 heads a few years ago. They had them listed at 58cc forever, despite the fact they were 53cc.