85irocz355tpi

I agree it could be the dist. but I also think compression could be a problem also. Did you check codes with the two different proms and see what they did. The three things a motor needs to run not two is compression, spark, and fuel. Since the computer only directly controls fuel at start up it might be the dist. or compression. How about pulling the plugs again and cleaning them with some starting fluid or carb cleaner. Then try and start it again on the ether. you should be able to get it running with just cleaning 6 of 8 plugs. Put the other maf in and open both throttle bores and spray ether in each throttle bore about 3-4 seconds each. I'll try and get some info from my local shop for you. I really hope you can get it running soon for you.

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rgarcia63

Add one, timing. You can have spark with incorrect timing.

peanutmrpeanut

Since this motor only has about 150 miles right couldnt the rockers have backed off due to Im sure used rockers and poly locks and since hes said at the begining that he was having problems with they way it was running. couldnt the rockers backed off and keep him from being able to start the engine. Just a suggestion

RSTurbo2800

Ok, Lets see if I can Follow what's happened throughout your problem.
Car Ran briefly then died, Plugs Fouled, Ripped out ECM, Screwed With Prom, started replacing parts at random.

I Believe there was mention of Bad gas in the tank, and on fuel pressure test the gauge dropped to zero after pump shut off, Which would lead me to suspect a STUCK Injector, or faulty Accumulator. Not an Injector with low resistance.

Firing Order 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 Distributor turns Clockwise

Bypass EST (disconnect Brown Wire W/ Black Stripe, Located on Firewall, Driver side, single wire connector), Once the engine is running, and the Timing set, Re Connect it.

Check ALL Grounds to Engine & Body (Take them apart and Clean them).

Once these things are VERIFIED to be Ok, and the car still won't start, Drop the Y-Pipe. A clogged Cat will definately cause a No-Start problem!

Go to Alldata.com. you can buy a subscription for an individual vehicle, for less than a Haynes manual! It's easy to use, System, sub-System, Component. I repair cars for a living, and I'll be the first to admit I don't Know it all, but the first step to finding a problem, is to understand what each part does and how it does it!

Buy a Decent DVOM (Digital Volt/ Ohm Meter), and learn how to use it! You can swap sensors all day, but if the problem is an open wire, you just spent too much money for nothing!

__________________
"If You Build It, Someone will Hit it!!!"

Authorized GM Performance Parts Installer

87GTAj

That's how I did it.

I performed the manual check on the coil, and the coil appears to be working poperly...all the tests turned out as sound.

With the spare ECM with swapped PROM, the readout was the same: no code 12 and same data streaming...with the old ECM swapped PROM, the readout was the same only it was registering random MPH and the car wasn't even running
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Parts were not replaced at RANDOM. The parts I replaced were bought and installed after talking to people who felt they could be all/part of the problem. The PROM wasn't screwed around with it was merely swapped between two ECMs to check and see if one or the other was faulty.

I've got a set of known working injectors in it right now and it's not running. I only checked resistance initially to verify they were correct, because as you said, why spend the money when a simpler problem is to blame. They were correct (I used a DVOM).

I have a decent DVOM and I have been using it to perform checks on various systems.

RSTurbo2800

Thank You for puttong me on the same page as you! I'm Kicking the Problem Around. what # does the Integrator show on the Datastream? should be 128 Key on Engine Off.

87GTAj

Not exactly sure what the 'integrator' is...I'm using WinALDL in case you're referring to a different program. What is it?

If it's the INT...then it is 128. On page 1 I have three screenshots from the datastream.

RSTurbo2800

Looked at all your info again. int seems to be where it needs to be. my next look would be dist cap, wires. GM Dist caps are Notorious for cracking/Carbon tracking.
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When you crank the engine does the ECM "see" the RPM?

87GTAj

OK, to test if the ECM is seeing the RPM, just crank and see if WinALDL recognizes any RPM change?

RSTurbo2800

Yes

87GTAj

So I checked to see if the ECM sees the RPM change while cranking, and WinALDL DID NOT display any RPM changes when I tried cranking the motor. That was with the spare ECM, because the old ECM still does not register anything.

RSTurbo2800

Check to make sure that no wires are pinched between the Bellhousing and the engine Block, (It Happens Quite Frequently) or that the wires are not chafed/cut, or broken at the plug. With out the signal from the dist. You are up the Creek!

87GTAj

So in case anyone is still watching this thread, the timing ended up being off by 30 degrees. I can't figure out how this happened, because it ran for 4+ years with no problems, and then this. Also, when I checked the dizzy during my series of checks, the screws holding it on were very tight, no posibble movement in it. Has anyone seen this happen before - dizzy is so far out of wack but runs great til one day?

RFmaster

So, after all is it running??? I have done my share of silly things (I am doing one right now - long story, not for this forum). It may have turned without you know it.

//RF

87GTAj

Yep, it's running now. I can't figure out how it could have turned, but it was securely positioned when I went to check it?

rgarcia63

FYI
If the dizzy is bottoming out, once the hold down clamp is tighten the intake and dizzy surfaces would mate properly and will allow the dizzy to turn with the torsional forces applied by the starter and the engine, eventually to the point that it will not start.

Remove the dizzy hold down clamp, remove dizzy to remove gasket and reinstall, use a feeler gauge to determine if there is any clearance between the mating surfaces of the intake and the dizzy, if there is any clearance you'll need to install a spacer to make up the difference ( the gasket is not a spacer.)

I had to install a nylon spacer on mine after the breakin and a few miles because the base timing wouldn't stay put, the dizzy was bottoming out.

Milling the block, or intake for any reason will require checking the dizzy for proper clearance, or when changing the dizzy whether OEM, or aftermarket.

85irocz355tpi

I'm glad you got it running. Sorry I havn't been on in awhile so I couldn't be of much help. I hope you get to enjoy it this year even though gas is gonna be a B***h. I'm hoping to get mine out soon. I might also be getting an 83 25th anniv. Daytona 500 Pace Car Trans Am for 400 bux. It needs a motor and rewired but it turns out they are relatively rare and My friend said he'd help with the cash for it. Get with me sometime and tell me how the GTA is doing and If you need any help with it and I'll see if I can help.

87GTAj

Thanks for the offer. I actually now have to find an oil leak the motor has. The guy I bought it from said it leaked because of the high volume/pressure oil pump he installed, so he gave me the stock one, but when I started it yesterday, I heard a big squirt, and about 3 qts of oil were on my driveway. I'm not so sure it is the oil pump, but I have to put the car in the air today and look at it.
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Thanks; I didn't know that, and that definitely could explain the problem.