Quote: Originally Posted by Twitch RS ok then let me change my statement I want to be able to run low 12's N/A without any significant weight reduction. So what will it take to make a 5.0 run that: Get a LX hatch or coupe. Buy a 306 short-block from DSS or build your own. Spend the coin on some serious heads then get a matching cam/intake/supporting mods. Relocate battery and do some minor suspension work, gears, stickies and a clutch. You will run some nice times until the T5 grenades... and what would it take to get a 383 thirdgen to do that? Probably a MiniRam, fuel and complementary bolt-ons. The rear will be on borrowed-time, though more survivable with an automatic tranny. 3200+ stall and a good clutch (and prayers) with a T5. Also what would it take to make an ls1 f-body do low 12's N/A? Cam, suspension and bolt-ons alone would do it for sure with a M6 if you can drive and the rear doesn't frag. With an auto, add a good TC and possibly gears. Even though it seems like a lot of work, it is all in matching the parts combo. I wish I could give you the perfect "recipie", but everybody has different expectations from their cars. My 5.0 GT was quick for little cash, but I also had no qualms about tossing stuff for weight reduction.

Why can't you build a 331 or 347 from the 302? Same principle as building a 383...and a 347 will hit 400HP easily. You could even throw some variant of the 351 under the hood to hit 400HP N/A without too much drama... I agree with you that one should play to the Mustang's strengths: cheap, light, solid 8.8 and huge new/used aftermarket.

Having said all that, I would personally still pick one of the GM choices to hit low 12s. My next 5.0 Mustang will stay purely bolt-ons...

Basically everything will come down to options on the LS1 F-bodys. Drivetrains are the same across the board barring rear-end gearing. Certain SLP options may add a few HP and the WS6 hood might be worth a couple HP as well, but that's about it.
You can get the Z28 and Formula as "strippers" like mine. Roll-up windows, hard-top, few to no options. Or you can get a fully-loaded WS6/SS.
My advice is to buy the one that pushes your personal buttons.

The answer seems simple enough.

Which car do you like more?

Both cars are going to need trans work. The 10 bolt rear would probably hold up to low 12's with an auto, a stick is more risk. The 350 could be built to an easy 430-460hp to hit your low 12s, but will take good heads, cam, intake, carb. You'll put 1500 bucks into the motor (if you wheel and deal well), all said and done. It'll be nice and streetable too.

An LSx to make that power and be streetable kinda knocks out the cheap 5.3, so your left with a motor that will probably cost you around 1000 bucks just to start with. +cam, tune, expensive headers at a minimum = another 1000 bucks. But you'll have fuel injection, but less low end tq.

What about an 03/04 Terminator Cobra? What do those run stock? I know Horsepower TV made one put 407 HP at the wheels with just a tune absolutly nothing else no intake/exhaust nothin...that seems pretty impressive to me

Great straight-line performer with huge power potential. Bolt-ons/pulley/tune can get you in the 450rwhp range. Probably the only Mustang I would ever own besides a 5.0... Downsides are weight, cost and ergonomics. I would have a hard time spending $20K+ on a decent one when you could get into a nice C5 for the same price.

they are really that much? Damn I thought I could find a pretty nice relativly low mile one for about 10-12 grand

Also it would be hard for me to justify buying a corvette cause I would get a camaro with same power for half the price...plus corvette insurance is a bitch im sure

Yep. Any non-ragged 2003-04 Cobra is going to be around $20K. I've seen some abused ones for around $15-16K, but no thanks...
You could certainly get much more bang-for-buck with the LS1 F-body versus the Vette, but I'd wager the insurance would actually be less expensive for the Corvette due to owner demographics.

You can get a very nice 2000+ 4thGen for about $10K if you are willing to be patient. Don't be too afraid of mileage if the car was well taken care of... It will be plenty fun to drive stock while you save up for mods.

thats true I suppose...i mean don't get me wrond I love the vette but I will be going to college next year and am not about to take a vet and park it in a college parking lot in downtown indianapolis

im still not sure I would just really have a cow if I found a good deal on one of those cobra's cause I really like them and DAMN over 400HP at wheels with just a tune is downright nasty to me

Also just curious what would it take to make a 5.0 run like mid 12's? Just curious cause there are alot of fast 5.0's and people say it's not that hard to do.

Plus 5.0's are like the easiest muscle cars to work on ever arent they? I mean the fox has a huge engine compartment and plenty of room to get to stuff where as a 350 in a camaro is always PACKED in there

8-10PSI Vortech,70MM throttle body,a Holly Systemmax intake,set of drag radials and your there.

I have a customer with a 90 hatch running 13.8's on street tires,pretty much stock.The guy can drive.It's a 5SPD car too.If I didn't see it for myself I wouldn't believe it.

306,331 347 are all 302 stroker combos.The 331's more forgiving on a street car than the 347.

ya idk I have always liked 5.0's I had just kinda given up on one since someone said they were hard to get too 400HP but honestly I wouldn't need that much power to make the stang as fast as i want it cause they weigh less. Good thing is around here 5.0's are real easy too come by for cheap where as the ls1 cars and thirdgens are not so.

I once drove my friend's 89 lx 5.0 it was a 3spd auto and was stock with cat back exhaust...I absolutly loved driving that car lol and have wanted one terribly ever since

Maybe I will end up with one after all

Would be cheap and easy to work on
Are not real expensive looking cars therefore less likely to get broken into/stolen while in college
Fun/Fast/SOUND GREAT

My buddy has a gutted mildly built 5.0. Systemax intake, e303 cam (pretty big), exhaust, and worked stock heads. Its a lot of fun on the road and is only a high 12 car. Probably only makes 325hp. It makes just decent low end tq, I wouldn't want a bigger cam or much bigger heads on it.

I imagine a 400hp 5.0 is a little mushy on the low end.

If I were to start over, I'd have left my camaro more stockly and streetable, and built a fox body or s10 for the drags but with a 6.0 gen III.

I think the mustang suspension sucks on the road, while the camaro is great. Mustang interior sucks, but a HUGE aftermarket.

Depends what you do, but the end price of doing 3rd gen camaro vs mustang will be similar, so its whatever you like better.

Personally, I think a cammed 6.0/t56 in a 3rd gen would be the best all around car AND relatively low cost.

Tranny options for the 5.0 are pretty limited, stock t5 sucks and anything to replace it with is EXPENSIVE, except an auto.

I think you just need to pick a body style you like the best with a near stock motor, and then build the motor to make power where you feel you would like it. Don't go hog wild and end up with a combination you don't like driving on the street. 400hp 5.0 would worry me a bit, especially with a 4" bore and little 3" stroke. Might be a little soggy.

ya man no kidding I just really wish I could build a small block chevy for a thirdgen but I don't want to do drivetrain work and swap the rear end and the suspension seems like at least the stock drivetrain and rear end in a 5.0 could handle 12 secs(someone correct me if im wrong)

Both would need a transmission upgrade. The mustang trans would probably cost more. Especially if going with a stick. A friend of mine has gone through 18 T5s in his stang running stock tires. The camaro rear would probably be fine for 12's. Some break behind weak motors, some run consistent low 11's.

A great thing about GM is the parts interchangeablility, making parts plentiful and cheap.

That 8.8 inch rear end will hold for deeper blasts than that.My car runs high 12's, probably could sink it deeper if I didn't get exited and came outta the hole better.

k cool

pretty much what this thread is about now is answering one question...is it easier/cheaper to go 12 secs in a thirdgen or a 5.0?

Man it's hard to justify buying any car from GM regardless how much I want an ls1 car...I mean if GM goes under parts are goona get real hard to get real fast

like I really want and ls1 SS or WS6 like real bad but I can't help thinking it would be a bad investment...i mean GM already dropped pontiac so I mean how easy are WS6 parts gonna be to get soon?

So ford is still cruising along i mean they didn't even need a bailout so it would seem that they would be a better company to invest in but...I can't find a single ford car I like besdes the mustang and the only ones I like are the 03 04 terminator cobras and 5.0s but idk I am starting to not like 5.0s so much anymore idk why guess it's cause I havent driven one in forever...

did 5.0s come with posi rear end stock?

it kills me cause the 4.6 stangs are junk and those are the ones that are in my year and price range lol I mean I can afford a cobra but it would throw almost all of my military money out the window(Signing bonus, basic pay etc) and idk if i wanna spend that much

anyone have an opinion?

A given 383 that'll push a third gen into the 12s will push a '94-up stang into the 12s, or a '79-'93 stang into the 11s. All 5.0s from '87-up came with Traction-Lok, but these suck even when they're not worn out. May as well build the 8.8 with 33 spline axles and a Detroit diff. Add a girdle, and it will survive 9-second passes. If you do stick a SBC into a fox, I've been there done that if you'd like some pointers.

isn't it a LOT of work to swap that? and as far as reliable goes it just doesn't seem like it could be very reliable with parts from different manufacturers

The swap itself is easy. Your perceptions of what makes a car or swap unreliable are your own issue.

So you just joined the military and are looking to spend all this newfound money eh? I saved my money and did a lot of research, then built my car when I came home.

The weight difference between a mustang and camaro is like 300 lbs I think. Thats 30hp, real easy to gain with a 383 or 406. My 383 N/A smokes my buddy's gutted 87 mustang, and I mean smokes. We did similar parts upgrades, he makes 350hp, I make 460hp, my parts were a little better.

Parts availability isn't going to change. GM quits making parts after a car is 10 years old anyway, and someone else makes them. If there is a demand, there will be a supply.

Dont give up on GM! That kind of thinking WILL kill them/US.

alright lol thanks

don't think I am going to build anything because I am not gonna have time before school starts when I get back...

So out of the box the best buy would be an ls1 car? I mean terminator cobras are more powerful but also rare and expensive...

who here knows much about the non terminator cobras? I mean the ones that come with the DOHC 32 valve 4.6 that cranks out...motor week tested it against an SS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-A4lnkl528

do you guys think that would be a better route for out of the box power or have you guys heard bad stuff about them like how do they take mods??