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I found some disturbing info about this new program. Whatever you do don't give up that f-body to any new car dealership. Just read what they have to do to the engine if Uncle Sam determines it to be a "gas hog".
Some noteworthy provisions in the rules:
Only new-car dealers can issue the credit, and they must have an active franchise agreement with the manufacturer. That means used-car dealers can’t issue the vouchers. Neither can a new-car dealer that has lost its franchise, as several thousand Chrysler and General Motors dealers have recently.
Dealers are required to disclose to the consumer the scrap value of their trade-in and can keep $50 of that amount to cover their administrative costs.
Though all trades must be in drivable condition, dealers are required to disable the vehicles' engines before scrapping them. Regulators’ accepted procedure: Drain the oil, then run several quarts of sodium silicate through the engine. As engine heat evaporates the solution, deposits of dehydrated sodium silicate line the engine's lubrication system, abrading all the moving parts and causing the engine to seize.
The dealer must stamp the title "Junk Automobile, Cars.gov" before submitting it for reimbursement. And the dealer must have clear title before doing so.
Scrap facilities can sell any part of the car except the engine block or whole drivetrain, but ultimately the car must be taken off the road.
Violators of the rules face civil penalties of up to $15,000 per incident.
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Though all trades must be in drivable condition, dealers are required to disable the vehicles' engines before scrapping them. Regulators’ accepted procedure: Drain the oil, then run several quarts of sodium silicate through the engine. As engine heat evaporates the solution, deposits of dehydrated sodium silicate line the engine's lubrication system, abrading all the moving parts and causing the engine to seize.
That makes me sad on the inside, like putting down a family pet
this is nothing new though. check out the old hot rod and car craft mags from the mid
80s to the early 90s. it was the same thing happening then. i remeber reading about motors having holes knocked in them with air hammers and **** like that. but yeah, a car paid for is better than one with a payment.
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Obama in action.....might as well be a NAZI! just my 2 cents though!!
__________________ 355,stealth ram,dart platinum heads 200cc, gm hot cam..lunati pro mod 5.7 rods, je pistons,total seal gapless 2nd rings..sh*&^y 700r4 tranny...getting things together for t56 swap and 9" really lookin into a single turbo...
Ya know, people are going to start turning in old trucks, suburbans, etc and they're going to ruin countless small and big blocks. It's just not cool, I'm all for helping the environment and stuff but destroying perfectly good iron is not helping in my book. Plus, what do they do with the used sodium silicate? It's gotta go somewhere
this i by far one of the dumber things to come down the pike in a long time, this myth of global warming is just plain bad stuff, just do a search for global warming myth, it is humans have nothing to do with it, and we are actually going into a cool phase Al Gore and your lies, but thats off topic
really, how by destroying a good engine is helping things out.....i mean this would be alot better IF something like this were to happen, just give the car a SALAVE title and make sure it goes to a j/y were it cant be resold, then atleast ALL the parts are getting reused then the parts that aint wanted get recycled. this is sooooo stupid, i do not understand this at all
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Here we go again.... all of the ignorant Nazi, socialist BS hillbilly, comments.....
NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO TRADE IN ANYTHING!
This is not some evil liberal tree hugging scheme. Do you guys realize saving the "clunker" is probably better for the environment? Building millions of new cars that no one really needs is not exactly the best thing for the environment either. This government incentive is more about bailing out the automakers.
Here we go again.... all of the ignorant Nazi, socialist BS hillbilly, comments.....
NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO TRADE IN ANYTHING!
This is not some evil liberal tree hugging scheme. Do you guys realize saving the "clunker" is probably better for the environment? Building millions of new cars that no one really needs is not exactly the best thing for the environment either. This government incentive is more about bailing out the automakers.
Here we go again.... all of the ignorant Nazi, socialist BS hillbilly, comments.....
NO ONE IS FORCING ANYONE TO TRADE IN ANYTHING!
This is not some evil liberal tree hugging scheme. Do you guys realize saving the "clunker" is probably better for the environment? Building millions of new cars that no one really needs is not exactly the best thing for the environment either. This government incentive is more about bailing out the automakers.
Of course they aren't FORCING them. By giving the cash incentives, the morons of the world will WILLINGLY participate because they think they are getting something for free. You can get the masses to do anything you want as long as you make it look like they are getting something for free. Especially when the economy is swirling around the bottom of the toilet bowl.
I work with the general public everyday and I've found that a SINGLE person can be quite intelligent, but PEOPLE are the dumbest ****ing animals on this planet.
yea thats exactly where we are going right now especialy if health care passes
anyway DUH they aint making you do it, but people are stupid they will get a old car thats worthy of restorin for say 1,000 then trade it in one the plan to get 4500 all it is to get rid of gas guzzlers to help the biggest lie in the history of science "global warming" ..... i dont care if they trade in a dodge truck, its trashing a good motor and good ride
that truck that they got the 4500 for could of been sold for $600 to some poor person who cant afford anything better
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this myth of global warming is just plain bad stuff, just do a search for global warming myth, it is humans have nothing to do with it, and we are actually going into a cool phase Al Gore and your lies, but thats off topic
You know, that you can type a lot of things into google, all sorts of conspiracies (Like how we never landed on the moon) and you will find all sorts of wacky websites. That doesn't make it true, just because you want to believe them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89RS_82Z
Nazi Socialist
yea thats exactly where we are going right now especialy if health care passes
anyway DUH they aint making you do it, but people are stupid they will get a old car thats worthy of restorin for say 1,000 then trade it in one the plan to get 4500 all it is to get rid of gas guzzlers to help the biggest lie in the history of science "global warming" ..... i dont care if they trade in a dodge truck, its trashing a good motor and good ride
that truck that they got the 4500 for could of been sold for $600 to some poor person who cant afford anything better
And I'll bet you believe everything Rush Limbaugh tells you too. If this WAS anything close to fascism, there would already be secret police at your door to take you away. Good thing this is America and you can spread BS around if you want.
I hope the mods lock this one soon. I don't know how anyone thought this should be posted on a tech board anyways.
I am going to stop typing now before I waste anymore time being annoyed by this thread
Last edited by SMURFN' Z28; 07-28-2009 at 05:50 PM.
- Must have been registered to the current owner and insured continuously for at least the last 12 months.
- Must be less than 25 years old on the date you trade it in ('82-'84 3rd gens not eligible, soon 85's won't be).
- Must have been rated at 18 mpg or less when new (no 3rd gen would be eligible).
- Must buy a new car.
Of course it is tied to the anthropogenic global warming myth. Part of a lame attempt to prop up new car sales (government subsidy of SUV owners buying a new car). Salve for the guilt-ridden last-decade SUV owner (kids are gone, don't need the SUV for soccer practice anymore, need some new cause to fill the time). Ain't going to help the typical blue-collar family. Will raise either taxes or the federal deficit (take your pick). You have to pay full price for the new vehicle, the dealer will get the credit from the government assuming all requirements have been met and the credit will be applied back to the purchase price (ripe for fraud, bait & switch).
my biggest problem with this is we are killing a car, that if someone that cant afford something expensive could afford to buy the car that they are killing
Are you serious about believing global warming? My friend knows the guy that helped write the model they use for global warming... he wrote it for a completly different purpose and it didn't even work for that. I dislike smog as much as the next guy but co2 has almost no effect on global warming. 95-97 percent of greenhouses gas is water vapor. Cutting down the rainforests would have a greater effect then cars. Excess co2 just makes plants grow better. Did you know Nancy pelosi is heavily invested in alternative energy.. talk about conflict of interests. Al gores income has went through the roof since he got on the global warming kick. There is just no good science in it I honestly have tried to find some but its just not there. Build more cars... are you kidding me to build a new car will never be better than driving an old car environmently. Personally I think electric cars are the future because there going to be faster quieter and a lot easier to maintain not because its better for the environment. With current battery technology and production costs its not. Cash for clunkers is about keeping automobile prices artificially high nothing else. The earth has cooled in the lasts couple of years..........
i work at a toyota dealership. and you should have seen the first day of cash for clunkers. they had to line up all the clunkers in the service lane. there wasnt anything special. ford windstars, ford explorers, dodge durangos, old volvos. had there been any nice little F-body there i mightve just offered them some cash for it. since im sure some owners would rather prefer cold hard cash as opposed to "up to" 4500 off the purchase of another car.
Must have been rated at 18 mpg or less when new (no 3rd gen would be eligible).
I hope I'm reading that wrong....
Lots of 3rd gens ARE qualified in the Credit 4 Cars program. I call it credit, because you do NOT get cash. Just a discount. Maybe D(iscount)4C is more accurate?
- Must have been rated at 18 mpg or less when new (no 3rd gen would be eligible).
No, must have a combined rating (at the "NEW" EPA mileage available at fueleconomy.gov ) of 18MPG or less. This makes almost every thirdgen eligible, with the exception of the iron duke 4 bangers and the 6 cylinder auto cars. The rest, they are eligible.
Are you serious about believing global warming? My friend knows the guy that helped write the model they use for global warming... he wrote it for a completly different purpose and it didn't even work for that. I dislike smog as much as the next guy but co2 has almost no effect on global warming. 95-97 percent of greenhouses gas is water vapor. Cutting down the rainforests would have a greater effect then cars. Excess co2 just makes plants grow better. Did you know Nancy pelosi is heavily invested in alternative energy.. talk about conflict of interests. Al gores income has went through the roof since he got on the global warming kick. There is just no good science in it I honestly have tried to find some but its just not there. Build more cars... are you kidding me to build a new car will never be better than driving an old car environmently. Personally I think electric cars are the future because there going to be faster quieter and a lot easier to maintain not because its better for the environment. With current battery technology and production costs its not. Cash for clunkers is about keeping automobile prices artificially high nothing else. The earth has cooled in the lasts couple of years..........
I am your father's cousin's nephew's brother's former roomate! The fact the CO2 is a greenhouse gas is not debatable, sure some other things like water vapor or cow burbs (methane) may be worse, but that certain does not make CO2 harmless! Smog and CO2 are not even the same thing, co2 is not regulated, smog is O3..... bleh!
I don't think anyone with a mind will deny that Al Gore and folk like him exaggerated about the severity of the problem, and how eminent doomsday is, but that does not mean that global warming does not exist. The link between CO2 levels and temperature are fact.
That said, like I said before, this program is dumb, and definitely does not help the environment. It is horrible waste of good parts (Not to mention functional vehicles) cars and trucks will take themselves out of circulation more than fast enough just from being used.
This program is about helping the auto industry sell cars! All it will do is make sure we all stay in debt from buying garbage that we don't need.
I am not saying the CO2 induced global warming right hear and now is a fact, I am saying that it is a fact that CO2 in sufficient concentrations is a green house gas.
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Last edited by SMURFN' Z28; 07-30-2009 at 02:35 PM.
I am not saying the CO2 induced global warming right hear and now is a fact, I am saying that it is a fact that CO2 in sufficient concentrations is a green house gas.
and for the last 12 years temps have been droping worldwide.
when vikings discovered greenland it was actually green. the farmed and lived well and - this is big - burried their dead with simple hand tools.
to dig up a viking grave you need earth moving equipment because the ground is frozen into something as hard as concrete. so did the vikings causwe global warming until the little ice age hit?
the little ice age caused the dark ages - no food - starvation - black death - etc and it did not end until about 1900. so we did not come out of the little ice age until 1900. was it an suv or a hot 383 that did it?
well - humans - some humans think they are so important that they are the cause of everything.
want to know what causes cooling and heating - ITS THE SUN!
ice melts all the time that is why we have fiords, the grand canyon, yosimite park.
so what would be wrong with more drinking water, land to farm, and everything that it brings? NOTHING WOULD BE WRONG.
here is another thing for you. the romans talked about the climate in england as being so good that the grapes would grow all year around. even now with pretend global warming the growing season is about 3 months in england.
and if i remember 70% of the earth is covered in water and another 3 or 4% with ice. so who gets the contract to paint the oceans white?
when earth heats up so does mars and even out to pluto - it used to be a planet. so what suv is pushing up their green house gases? oups - they dont have green house gases.
so everyone is supposed to use electric cars, so that the givernment, by installing their new monitoring devices on your home, can limit the amount of electricity you can use and thereby limit the right to travel.
and for the last 12 years temps have been droping worldwide.
What is your source of that information? Just look at satellite photos of the poles and tell me we are not warming.
We all know the earth has been a lot warmer than today in the past. (That is when most of biomass that we are now burning was created) The alarming detail is the speed with which this warming is occurring. Climate shifts don't happen on the order of a few decades.
You want to get planetary? Guess what? The closest planet to us is Venus, and it is the hottest planet even though it is not the closest to the sun. It has an atmosphere composed almost entirely of Co2. (I know this is an extreme case that will never happen here, but I am trying to prove a point)
And as far as the grand canyon is concerned, I hope by formed by Ice, you meant it was carved by the Colorado river, which happens to be sourced by melting snow and ice. It most certainly was not carved by glaciers in the same manner that the Yosemite valley was formed. (Sorry I had to do that I am a geologist)
More warming for you folks in southern California is problem not a good thing either, you already don't have enough water. I bet it would be pretty good for Canada though, they got some prime real estate. I digress.....
Any number of simple laboratory experiments can easily prove what CO2 has the potential to do.
Is CO2 induced global warming here on earth right now a theory, yes. But so are a lot of things. The "it's only a theory" argument is what religious zealots, have been using for over 100 years to refute evolution.
Any number of simple laboratory experiments can easily prove what CO2 has the potential to do.
Is CO2 induced global warming here on earth right now a theory, yes. But so are a lot of things. The "it's only a theory" argument is what religious zealots, have been using for over 100 years to refute evolution.
Inappropriate forum for the discussion.
There is no lab proof of CO2 as an atmosphere and its effect. So while I can make water burn, that does not make water flammable.
The world is flat theory does not apply either. If it did, you could support every theory out there that there is no hard proof of, even contradictory theories. Thats really grasping at straws to defend your opinion which is what it is, opinion.
You want facts? Here is a fact, compiled data from both the EPA and NOAA:
Dips and spikes of one and not the other. No scientific proof of connection.
I have a question about the cash for clunkers that I hope someone can answer.
My girlfriend drives an old '98 volvo and it's been through the ringer, it has nearly 180,000 miles on it, the window doesn't go down, I just fixed the door (it wouldn't open from the inside), the A/C needs to be recharged, the engine ticks. It's definitely feeling it's years. But anyway, we're thinking about "participating" in the cash for clunkers primarily because we're hoping it will be a solution to the down payment problem that many 19 year olds like us probably suffer from. We lack the funds for a down payment but we can make payments on a new car when needed.
Now to my question, does this "discount" take, and I quote "3500" or "4500" depending on the upgraded gas mileage, from the sticker price or from a predetermined inflated price that has been appropriated according to the obvious difference in value of the clunker opposed to the new car?
For instance, let's say the new car is 20,000 dollars, would it be 3500-4500 off of that price or would it be off of an inflated, perhaps 22,000 dollar, price?
Just my two cents, this is a government attempt at boosting the auto industry sales, obviously, no fooling anyone there. But what must be understood is that this is government funded, there is an allotted amount (1 billion dollars, or some other exorbitant sum that "won't last forever") and this is where the difference between the clunker and the new car comes from. Because if you think about it, most of these cars aren't worth anything near 3500 dollars. We took my girlfriend's volvo to carmax about a month ago and they quoted us 900 dollars. So everyone wins in a situation like this, we get a new car, the auto industry sells more cars, and the government gets more money in taxes from the new cars. So I don't really see the problem with this program, I do not think it's a government conspiracy to take our money. Because look at the past year for example, the government will go to great lengths to help the auto industry, it's quite obviously a last ditch attempt at saving the American auto industry, which is something that I personally have no problem with.
What is the world coming to? It's hard for me to believe global warming. I mean can the earth not renew itself like we humans do in cuts, bruses and illnesses? Why doesn't the govt. go after cows and there polutant farts instead of old cars? lol
What is the world coming to? It's hard for me to believe global warming. I mean can the earth not renew itself like we humans do in cuts, bruses and illnesses? Why doesn't the govt. go after cows and there polutant farts instead of old cars? lol
Can we try to stay on topic and away from the global warming facts/myths please?
The cash for clunkers is to bail out the auto industry and to make sure the smart gear heads like we members don't get our hands or the condemned clunker and put them back on the road. The $4500 or so incentive is not free money and you only get it if you purchase a new ride. Face facts the government will not freely hand out money if they haven't already devised a plan to screw you out of it from the start.
No, must have a combined rating (at the "NEW" EPA mileage available at fueleconomy.gov ) of 18MPG or less. This makes almost every thirdgen eligible, with the exception of the iron duke 4 bangers and the 6 cylinder auto cars. The rest, they are eligible.
355,stealth ram,dart platinum heads 200cc, gm hot cam..lunati pro mod 5.7 rods, je pistons,total seal gapless 2nd rings..sh*&^y 700r4 tranny...getting things together for t56 swap and 9" really lookin into a single turbo... 
If this WAS anything close to fascism, there would already be secret police at your door to take you away. Good thing this is America and you can spread BS around if you want. 
I digress..... 
