Hey guys, Ran into a little snag here the other day. My 84 T/A that I recently swapped a 350 into was running crappy, no power, stuttering, wouldn't stay running, rough running when it ran. Little investigation revealed three cracked boots on my plug wires so I went and changed them and swapped out the plug while I was at it. Well, go the car down off jack stands (have to go under to get number 6 and 8 on), and the car won't fire over. Just cranks and cranks and cranks. It's carbed with the CC Qjet on it. I didn't touch the distributor so the timing shouldnt' have shifted...I've changed out my plugs and plug wires many times in the past with nary a problem so I'm a bit stumped. Any ideas? Thanks!

not completely sure about your set up but do you have a coil wire?

if so just check it. that would prevent it from firing up and just cranking over.

Large cap HEI? Make sure you didn't knock the power wire plug off it.

Only plugs and wires so you didn't have the cap off?

You can use an inductive timing light to see if the plugs are firing. Clamp the timing light over each plug wire and crank the engine over. If the plug fires, the timing light will flash.

Yes, large cap HEI. I'll have to see if my timing lite is inductive...its the standard light.

Inductive meaning there's a clamp that slips over a plug wire. Just about every timing light now uses that. An "old style" or cheap timing light clips inline with the plug wire. Very few people have or use this type.

With a large cap HEI, I'd check to see if the power wire plug is still attached to the cap. Usually the clips get broken off and the plug can easily be knocked loose off the cap. The plug could have one or two wires on it.

There are three plugs that goes to my cap. A brown and white plut, then behind them is a black one that's as big as the white and brown ones combined.

My timing light has two leads that goes to the battery and a clip that goes over the plug wire. Will this one work for the test you described?

ya it'll work, hook the timing light and go through all the plug wires, just make sure it lights up when you crank it.

Ok cool. At work now. I'll have to do that when I get home in the morning. The plugs on the cap seemed tight. They weren't loose by any means though I will pull them off and reseat them, some times that works miracles. Perhaps when I was re-routing the wires to fit the loom set I bought I disturbed some of the wiring bundles. I guess if I have no power to the plugs that means I broke something somewhere. This thing has been nothing but a pig since this engine swap...

Maybe my wife was right when she suggested I buy a newer car instead of dropping the money for the motor? lol

Ok, double checked the connectors and they are good. Hooked up the timing light and 1, 3, 5 and 7 all have spark as all light up when I crank the motor over. My timing light cord isn't long enough to check the passneger side wires so I'll have to wait until my wife wakes up later to check those.

Hmm, could be a fuel issue...the pump is engaging, I can hear it running when I turn the key on but I'm not getting the normal gas smell in the carb when I pump the gas...

Well you've got spark. I wouldnt worry about the other cylinders. I think it's a safe assumption at this point that you're getting spark to each hole. So you're getting spark, the problem is fuel. FInd out why you're not getting fuel. I bet it'll run fine on starting fluid.

Basic troubleshooting. You've now determined that the plugs are firing. Providing you never took the cap off or moved the distributor, you can also assume they're firing at the correct time. Are they however firing in the correct order?

Looking at the cap from the front, the #1 plug wire is about the 5 o'clock position. The firing order goes clockwise and is 18436572

They are in the correct order. I pulled each one off the post, one at a time and traced it making sure it was correct, then put it back on.

Can't check the fuel by myself, going to have to wait for the wife to wake up or I'll make one hell of a mess. As for the cap and timing, I don't believe I bumped it at all and I never took the cap off. All I did was pop the plug wires off one at a time and replaced them...however routing them forced me to move my engine harness and AIR hoses around a bit.

Pulled the fuel line off the carb today when my wife and I were both awake (working opposite shifts sucks), and using a bucket so I didn't make a mess, had her turn the key which turns on the new electric pump and vwalla! I have gas. So, either the gas isn't getting through the carb or I've got another problem. Pulled the filter from the carb and it was clean, though I did replace it when I first started having rought idle issues, before I discovered my bad plug wires.

i have fuel coming to the carb...but it still won't fire. Next step I guess I will attempt to put some gas down the carb when I get off work to see what happens. I didn't get a chance to look at it today (working two jobs hehe). Hopefully it will fire. I suppose it's possible I bumped my timing as well but without the car starting, I wouldn't even know how to check it.

easy to check the timing. take a socket or a big wrench and turn the the crank shaft clockwise until the timing mark on the harmonic balancer reaches the timing tab 0* line both up,next take off the cap on the dizzy, and see if the rotor is pointing to the #1 cylinder wire plug on the cap. if it isnt say if its off by a whole cylinder terminal on the cap, then your dizzy is off by a tooth. if its pointing to #6 terminal then the dizzy is off by 180* (not good)...Is you ignition coil, ignition module new or old. whats your plug gapped at, check to see if the coil in cap power button is bottoming out with the rotor(what you want). sounds like a bad timing issue or coil problem to me..,.try unplugging the wire from the spark plug and put it next to a ground like the alternator bracket, turn the engine over and see if the spark is blue. if its yellow, failing coil. but i really think that after you line up the timing marks on the harmonic balancer and check the rotor position it could be too adavanced or too retarded. I had a problem when reinstalling my dizzy (after a minor dizzy rebuild) i was off by one tooth and had to counter clockwise the dizzy (advance just to even get her started. . so i lined up the harmonic timing marks and pulled the dizzy out dropped her back in a tooth forward, and she started back up and timed her to *6 btdc. idk know the timing for a carb. but try the timing mark lining up thing/ rotor position

Ok, managed to avoid having to do that. Took my dads advice and a previous poster and poured some gas down the carb. Had to do this twice but I guess it sort of primed the carb/intake and now it's firing over just fine.

Car started up and sounds good. It just won't idle. It'll run at high idle, 1800 or so, then calm down to 1200 or so, then idles down till it stalls out and dies. I start it up, it runs good, idles down and dies...

One problem at a time! I'm just happy it started

if it runs with fuel dont you got two fuel pumps? on intank, one inline? http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/te...lock-fuel.html (helper(vapor lock) fuel pump issues)

Because this car originally had a mechanical pump and the new 350 wasn't drilled to accept the piston for a mechanical pump, I installed an electrical pump, a Holley Red pump to be exact that's supposed to be preset to 7psi. Six weeks ago before I started having problems with it, I had it dynoed and had the shop set my fuel pressure to 6.5lbs of pressure, apparently the red pump wans't factory preset to it's max setting.

Anyway...

I got the car's idle reset to 1000rpm when warm. ANy lower and it won't stay running. It will stay there for 5 minutes or so, sometimes less, then it slowly drops RPM and dies. It's done this ever since I put the new motor in.

Car runs like a raped ape, but say I come to a stop light, the car will idle down to 1000, then it'll slowly idle down further and die. I'll have to feather the pedal to keep it running.

Hmm, idle circuits on the carb? Not large enough primaries? The dyno shop said the primaries were large enough and it runs fine when I've got the pedal to it. I just don't know.

do you have ecm? maybe the specs could be off that differs from engine to engine. other than that. im going to have to drop out of this thread i dont know either

I do have the stock 84 ecm...I suppose that could be part of the problem...maybe? I dunno. Anyone else have any ideas?

What size cam are you running? Are you running a higher than stock torque converter?

its a .515 intake, .530 exhaust cam. lunati 60121 voodoo cam

i am running my stock converter

im reading that cam is for 396-454 chevy...you r probably confusing your computer. your lift should be as little as .437"/.454" or even the max .489"/.504". that voodo numbers are #60100Lk and 60101Lk.... to stay within computer spec it should be.429"/.452 and it woul pass smog. and wouldnt have to get a chip programmed. just my two cents anybody think that way too? if the cam isnt aligned right with harmonic balancer timing mark at 6 o' clock with the timing chain gears lined up that cam could thow off the timing of the dizzy, and from the dizzy to the computer's pickup coil. or maybe a higher stall, with a vacuum pump with check valve to assist

i dont have a 305 anymore, i am running a 355 roller block from a 98 silverado with the cam i metioned. i had the car dyno'ed and the shop said everything lined up and they set my timing. could be i need anew chip i suppose but not sure how much programming an 84 ecm can or will take.

i believe if you upgraded the engine from a 305 then ya, you need to get a new prom. especially with the cam.. try asking the ecm forum see if thats true. was it a carbed 305 or crossfire injection

+1


You kept saying carb so I figured you swapped a carb on it... but you've got the CC QJet... Not really sure what to tell you on taht one. I'd just throw a Holley on it or something but a lot of guys here like the QJets so perhaps you should stick with that. I dont know how to go about doing it through.

But that cam you have looks pretty good to me. Nice medium-sized roller cam. that motor should be quick once you get it running but it's not gonna run well on the fueling setup you've got on there. Put a non CC Qjet or an aftermarket carb on there with a squarebore intake and I bet it'll run a whole lot better than it is now with the carb right out of the box.

The car is carbed, was originally and I kept the set up to keep it "mostly original". Perhaps someday when I can afford it again I'll swap over to TBI as that's the easiest to do but...time will tell. I picked up a new CCqjet from Jet Performance Products the year before I did the engine swap in preparation for it. Upgraded the primaries and secondaries to handle the engine load. Like I mentioned earlier, I got it dynoed so it ran well enough for them that they were able to run it for 5 pulls and tune it (the engine and carb) though even they couldn't tell me why it kept stalling out. Even in park it stalls out so it's not like it's under load or anything with me holding the brakes at a light.

You guys have any good info on where to get a chip burned for a this car? It's OBD1 and I'm pretty sure it's not as programmable as some of the newer ones are...that said, it's also probably alot more forgiving as well.

http://tpis.com or maybe at you own risk ebay. but i boughta performance book from TPIs.com man it was awesome. theyere like ten time smarter call them, theyll tell you the solution, promise u

Thanks for the web site info! I just send them an email. It's jut making me mad now...idle screw turned ALL the way in, won't stay idling. Should be running about 1800 or so RPM with the screw turned all the way in....nothing. just idles down and dies....grrrrr!!!!!!!

has the engine ever idled well? when they were "tuning" it? did they have any problems with setting the timing?

The shop did say they had some issues with getting the car to idle in the right spot, or as close as they could get it which was 900rpm in "drive" without it stalling out and no, it's never idled "well"...at least not since I put the new motor in. I don't care about a lumpy idle from the cam, that's part of the "cool" factor of having a larger than stock cam. I just want it to idle where it's supposed to, which is down around 700 or so, and to be reliable, something it's not been since I did this swap last fall.

The shop didn't mention having any problems setting the timing...they set it to 36*total...however they did mention and show me on the dyno chart how it's "wobbly", and not a steady line which apparently indicated that the distributor bushings are worn a bit or something like that.

I checked my timing today.

With ecm plugged in, it's running 13-15* advanced. Once it's warmed up, the timing advanced a little more.

With the Ecm unplugged, it's sitting between 4 and 8*, so I"ll assume 6 since I can't make out the tick marks on the timing marker.

With my motor should I be runnign a little more initial advance?

i thought you had a large cap HEI with centrifugal advance?

you could certainly try more initial... 6* i would say isnt enough... it is sounding like time to get rid of the computer controlled items carb/dist as they are really limiting your options here...

mainly as it is unclear what you actually have and what the computer is actuall controling

I am running a large cap HEI but my carb and dist are ecm controlled not vacuum advance. The reason I am running them is for emissions. I know its not the original motor but if I run a vacuum dist and carb, I will fail the visual inspection. I will bump the timing to 8 or 9 and see how it likes it.

just get a troubled smog checker to check it, drop forty bucks on his lap, you pass ditch the computer.

right now you are running a "large cap" HEI and a carb they just happen to be computer controlled swapping the dist to a centrifugal advance dist i doubt they would even notice unless the removed the cap and if you have a thing for looking stock why not run a NON CCqjet

i doubt they would even notice it isn't like these guys know exactly what to look for they are looking for something out of place and if it passed emissions i doubt they would really care besides just listening to it idle will tell them you have modified it in a way that would probably fail their testing

right now what you need to know is exactly what the computer is doing, what changes it is making on you and why or you will be going in circles for a long time trying to get it stable