New starter turns engine slowly. What is wrong? - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

82TA_JAIME · 10-21-2009, 01:11 PM

i just installed a new high torque mini starter last night because i had problems with my old starter engaging. I have a 82 trans am carbed 406 sbc with 168tooth external balance flexplate. I think my car is too old to have a VATS and i dont have a chip in my key.
The starter engages nicely and turns engine over but it felt like it wasnt turning it fast enough to start. The car was sitting for about a month in the cold, so i thought it may be that the battery drained a little and isnt supplying enough volts. You think this is a possibility? Also i think i may have pluged the distributor electrical wires (rpm) in reverse(the wires the go on the drivers side of the dist cap). would that make it not start?
please help guys.

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82TA_JAIME · 10-21-2009, 01:46 PM

i made sure that the terminals were hooked up correctly on the battery and they were secure on the starter.

82TA_JAIME · 10-21-2009, 04:17 PM

i just tried cranking it again after charging the battery all night and this morning and i noticed the lights would flicker on and off and eventually just shut off. engine dont turn over as much either..
Could a bad alternator be at fault too? anybody?

84 z28 · 10-21-2009, 04:45 PM

Bring your battery to an auto parts store and have it tested. Sounds like its toast.

82TA_JAIME · 10-22-2009, 09:39 AM

i brought the battery in to the auto parts store, they tested it and said it was perfect...12v.. Got back home to hook it back up and this time it wouldnt even turn the engine anymore. dash lights shut off when i turn the key as well. I even tried to jump start it but it wasnt helping at all... maybe i wired the starter up wrong?.

Grumbles · 10-22-2009, 02:40 PM

Yeah, the auto parts store workers are retarded. It might be able to charge up to 12v...doesn't mean it HOLDS charge. Your battery is dead.

cIaRmOaCrZo · 10-22-2009, 02:43 PM

yep, dead. get a new battery.

82TA_JAIME · 10-23-2009, 02:07 AM

Well i thank you guys for your help and although the battery is showing bad symptoms, i believe the issue is just the starter...
i think it was just advertised as "high torque starter being able to turn 18.1:1 compression engines". but i guess since i only paid 50 bucks brand new for it, thats exactly what im gonna get out of it.. straight b.s.

how i came to this conclusion... i wired up my powermaster starter back up and it turned without a flaw... The reason i took it off is because the pinion gear is messed up on it and it would just grind my flex plate teeth off... so i thought id get a new starter all together...
But
i saw that summit sells the pinion gear replacement kits for powermaster and that is probably what i'll end up ordering later today. only problem is that i have no idea on how to open up the starter and replace the gear.
my starter is this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PWM-9612/#
and im not sure which pinion im supposed to get... they have like 5 different ones... i'd appreciate the help and sorry for the essay.

82TA_JAIME · 10-23-2009, 02:23 AM

i think i found the pinion gear.... a simple search said it was powermaster 604...
but ive searched and searched and cant find any instructions on how to replace that gear... does is just twist off like a screw??
help por favor.

berlin305 · 10-23-2009, 02:27 AM

Could be a bad spot in the starter. Had a reman that had that. yea i would stick with the one you got and change the pinion gear.

berlin305 · 10-23-2009, 02:28 AM

i have no clue to change that out.

rgarcia63 · 10-23-2009, 05:51 AM

The pinion gear should have a retainer C-clip you'll have to take the armature out to remove the pinion gear, or take it to a rebuilder.

transam85dudeman · 10-23-2009, 07:24 AM

a/c delcos are good and have a warranty.as low as 36 bucks at rockauto.com

82TA_JAIME · 10-23-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgarcia63

The pinion gear should have a retainer C-clip you'll have to take the armature out to remove the pinion gear, or take it to a rebuilder.

ok, but how do i open the starter up to access the armature or c-clip. thats my main issue. i guess my best bet is to call up summit or powermaster and ask them.

its hard to believe no one has had to replace that gear. but that just proves how much good luck i have...(sarcastic)

t-top havoc · 10-23-2009, 12:28 PM

82TA_JAIME--I went to the Power Master site--
They do have instructions how to remove//replace the #604 pinion!
IDK how to put the link to the thread.

{edit}
http://www.powermastermotorsports.co...structions.pdf

This what you need??

t-top havoc · 10-23-2009, 12:56 PM

MOD__sorry for dbl post__

82TA_JAIME-Don't forget to ensure propper pinion//flexplate contact clearences--
Everything "looked" good on mine & worked fine for a few days..then..whirrr/grind/clang..starter ate 3 teeth off the flexplate!

82TA_JAIME · 10-23-2009, 01:19 PM

thanks alot t-top havoc... unfortunately my server at work wont let me go to ur link... but i got lunch in one more hour and i will check it out.. sounds like the link should work out for me.. thx bro.

cIaRmOaCrZo · 10-25-2009, 03:35 AM

Rebuilding that starter should be cake. Although with u sayin the lights flicker and shut off while stArting DOES point STRONGLY to a bad battery for sure, but if u think about it, a high tq starter won't turn as many rpm's as a standard starter. Just tq is multiplied. So installing that starter wasn't realy benificial to an engine of that compression. The rpm of that high tq will not turn efficiant enough rpm's to start that. I think, don't take me 100% on that it COULDNT start it.

rgarcia63 · 10-25-2009, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cIaRmOaCrZo

Rebuilding that starter should be cake. Although with u sayin the lights flicker and shut off while stArting DOES point STRONGLY to a bad battery for sure, but if u think about it, a high tq starter won't turn as many rpm's as a standard starter. Just tq is multiplied. So installing that starter wasn't realy benificial to an engine of that compression. The rpm of that high tq will not turn efficiant enough rpm's to start that. I think, don't take me 100% on that it COULDNT start it.

I bought a Chevy mini-starter for my 10.5:1 CR 383 and it does turn faster and spins longer than the stock starter, or - rhetorical question - have I just convinced myself that it does? The starter is now 7 years old.

Product Details
High-torque, gear-reduction design. 100% NEW, not rebuilt. Offset design results in more clearance between the oil pan and the starter, and can be rotated for additional chassis clearance. The high-torque, high-output motor spins the engine over faster than stock starters, delivering 40-50% more cranking power. 3.75-to-1 sealed gear-reduction drive and full ball bearing construction

t-top havoc · 10-25-2009, 03:04 PM

82TA_JAIME--Hope it was Some help!
I am persuaded to agree w//the other posters on the battery.
(I'm learning as I read TGO.)
I have been told a battery may hold a charge,,but it can discharge from using anthing--
which would mean "dead cells"

or maybe a "broken plate"

inside

82TA_JAIME · 10-26-2009, 11:20 AM

problem solved.. here's what happened over the weekend

I replaced the pinion gear after i got it on saturday. Wasn't too hard. Hardest part was putting that c-clip into the powermaster starter.
So i put the starter back on and it would do the same thing happening as the other cheap starter i bought. I went to try my battery charger again and i find out that this whole time my battery charger wasn't on. (reason the battery drained was because it was sitting for a month and its cold here in idaho). so i fix it and charge the batt. Starter starts cranking but not fast enough.. i try to jump it again and i find out that my jumper cables are too rusted to transfer current so i use my buddy's cables and sure enough Lolita(my car) starts

one problem. damn powermaster keeps grinding the flexplate everytime i try to start it. So i'm pissed. i even took out the shim hoping that was the issue but no.. tried everything i could and im mad cuz i next day air'd the pinion

.
so i figured i try the cheap starter i bought off ebay hoping it was the same battery issue. I put that starter back on and with the battery fully charged, it turned the engine like a dream. For 54.99 bucks off ebay i highly recommend these starters to any sbc with high compression. It works alot better than the 205 dollar powermaster garbge and it engages so much better too. I believe the ebay store is db electrical..
Thanks to everyone that helped and i hope this thread helps anyone else.

84 z28 · 10-26-2009, 11:40 AM

Do you have shims for your starter ? And hate to say it but I told you it was the battery.

82TA_JAIME · 10-26-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84 z28

Do you have shims for your starter ? And hate to say it but I told you it was the battery.

yeah i put shims in the new starter. Yeah it was the battery but it was hard for me to believe since i left the charger on it all night but the charger wasnt charging. thx though.