Cleaning a fuel tank while still in the car - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

THETANK · 10-31-2009, 09:16 PM

Is there anyway to clean the fuel tank while it is still in the car? In particular if you had an acess hole cut in the trunk area to access the fuel pump could you clean the inside of the tank?

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jv9999 · 11-01-2009, 11:17 AM

Why do you think it needs to be cleaned? Most people don't realize just how dangerous working around a gas tank is. The smallest spark is all it takes. Even a bit of static. I'd stay out of it.

THETANK · 11-01-2009, 12:40 PM

It's for a complaint I have against a mechanic who cut into my floor to remove the fuel pump (W/O my permission), he also claimed to clean the tank b/c he said there was build up inside of it ( Long story short). I wanted to know if it is posssible to clean a tank with the tank still in the car through a fuel access door b/c that is one of the things he charged me for and I don't believe it was done. If you intrested in more of the story here you go:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/af...are-these.html (Engine Build nightmare...Are these parts equal?)

//<86TA>\\ · 11-01-2009, 12:47 PM

im sure it can be done, you would have to clean through the same hole whether the tank is in or out of the car. The only different part would be getting the cleaning solvents out, you would have to vacuum them out as opposed to just turning the tank over. In you situation, i personally would doubt he took the time to clean it out just based on his laziness in other areas.

jv9999 · 11-01-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THETANK

It's for a complaint I have against a mechanic who cut into my floor to remove the fuel pump (W/O my permission), he also claimed to clean the tank b/c he said there was build up inside of it ( Long story short). I wanted to know if it is posssible to clean a tank with the tank still in the car through a fuel access door b/c that is one of the things he charged me for and I don't believe it was done. If you intrested in more of the story here you go:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/af...are-these.html (Engine Build nightmare...Are these parts equal?)

It depends on his definition of "cleaned". I suspect he pulled out a few pieces of rotten intake sock and maybe some old bits of hose. Did you tell him it was OK to cut your floor? How did he patch the lines? Not with rubber hose I hope. At least not for the pressure line.

radical82 · 11-01-2009, 02:07 PM

no way to do even a half ways decent job without the tank removed.... If the guy was worth his salt, he would have suggested removing the tank, cleaning it, and sealing the inside..... I do that with all the tanks on project cars that are going to be reused... It costs a bit more to do it right, but IMO it's well worth the extra work and $$$$$.

I read your thread on the clown scamming you on the work done to your car.... Shops that operate on this "take the money and run" business philosphy have always been a source of embarrasment to those of us who try to run a legitimate business..... I'm retired now, and just do my own stuff.... but some things I would consider when talking with a shop for work to be done might include;

1. Get references!!! If the guy does good work he'll be glad to offer you names of his customers to get in touch with.

2. Don't make any agreements over the phone, always stop by to visit the guy and check out what he's working on and the way he's doing it...Making a couple random, unannounced visits can show you the "real world" methods the shop uses!!!!

3. If you know the exact parts you want used, bring a list my part number and manufacturer to the shop.....then listen to what the owner sez...he may well know of equal parts that work as good or better, or he may not.... If he doesn't want to put in specific parts, he's probably going to scam you and use a bunch of cheap junk for the repairs!!!!

4. Most importantly, price is not the most important consideration when looking for a shop....I used to have a sign in my shop that said, "I never argue with a man that charges less them me to do a job, he obviously knows what his work is worth."

5. If you're getting performance work done, look around for trophies, photo's, news articles, etc. DOCUMENTING what the shop has done...

Lots of other things to consider, too. This is probably a bit late for you, Tank, but maybe your experience can at least benefit others in helping them select a good shop to do business with..... Wish I lived closer to you, I'd sure be willing to inspect this clown's work and go to court on your behalf to testify as to what was done and what wasn't!!!!!!

Dave

THETANK · 11-01-2009, 03:34 PM

I think if it comes to court. I would be better suited getting a certified mechanic to come on my behalf than a lawyer (lol... generally speaking). I am sure the average lawyer will have no idea about fuel pumps, tanks etc... and I'm sure that I will have to do the leg work for a lawyer and provide him with copies of information from shop manuals etc...

Not to mention bye bye to 30 - 40% of anything I may collect, but then again I would be 60% - 70% better off than I am now ...lol. It's on a credit card that hasn't been paid( only had the car back about 3 weeks) so thats my first step after another talk with him.

I wanted a professional job b/c the cars in very good shape for 20 yrs old and I was afraid of screwing it up or hacking it up and look what I get...lesson learned

BTW: That wrong TPI pump he put in in place of the lower pressure TBI pump worries me. I already made it known to him though and he tells me that I know just enough to be dangerous. I think it's more like I know just enough to pick up on his short cuts

radical82 · 11-01-2009, 03:40 PM

With a bit of research, I wouldn't be surprised if you couldn't find a lawyer who is a car enthusiast!!! You are correct in taking an ASE certified mechanic with you!!!! Maybe certifications don't mean a lot in the go-fast world, but I would bet they do in the legal world!!!!

I'm certainly no legal expert, though some of my oldest and best customers have been lawyers so I guess I always had an inside track on good legal advice.... The majority of problems I encountered when I still had an open to the public shop were usually handled quite efficiently in small claims court....Might want to check into that first off to see what your options are.....

Gumby · 11-01-2009, 03:52 PM

Id say it depends on what he paid for the job. If it was to cheap, he should of known better.

If he paid $50 in labor to change a fuel pump, no one would do all that work to drop the tank for that price.

If he paid $300 in labor to change it, then he should have dropped it.

Adding a hole to change a FP without dropping the tank is very common today.

Though it took them till 2000 to add it to the 4th gen line, then shut the line down in 2002.

100% retarted design to need to pull all that crap just to change a FP.
You know it was only done to make you come in for service so you wouldn't change it yourself.

84Z28406 · 11-02-2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gumby

Id say it depends on what he paid for the job. If it was to cheap, he should of known better.

If he paid $50 in labor to change a fuel pump, no one would do all that work to drop the tank for that price.

If he paid $300 in labor to change it, then he should have dropped it.

Adding a hole to change a FP without dropping the tank is very common today.

Though it took them till 2000 to add it to the 4th gen line, then shut the line down in 2002.

100% retarted design to need to pull all that crap just to change a FP.
You know it was only done to make you come in for service so you wouldn't change it yourself.

Just because it's common doesn't mean that it isn't a hack job. It means that people are too lazy to do it right. Many vehicles require multiple steps to replace a fuel pump.

THETANK · 11-02-2009, 08:43 AM

Gumby, you nailed it $300 in labor plus $50 to clean the tank

Gumby · 11-02-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THETANK

Gumby, you nailed it $300 in labor plus $50 to clean the tank

Well $300 in labor would mean dropping the tank. He should of cut ya a deal if he was taking the easy way.

Gumby · 11-02-2009, 12:26 PM

Common as in almost all car makers now include a hole factory to change a FP without dropping everything. As it just dumb to need to do all that work.

Which GM should of started doing first.

Its not a hack job if you install an access door right.
Which might be your best course Tank, make the guy fix the hack by putting in a proper access door. 3m body pannel glue over welding should be used. STRONG stuff, they patch fenders with it. Steal an access door from an import and graft in nice.

That area of the floor is not some critical support structor that can't support a proper access door.

Though 50% of you will agree and 50% will disagree.

Case in point

As I put in my own access door and half of everyone here said the car would now fall apart as I just lost a bunch of strength in the rear.

Then when I installed a rear shock tower brace half of everyone here said it was dumb as it will do nothing as that area is so strong.

A proper door does not take away anything but add easier cheaper service in the long run.

Look around the car site Tank, find all the folks who got ripped off from a car or body shop for $10-$50,000 on engine builds or a restore job who never got a dime back. Gonna cost you 10times more then you already spent to get nothing.

Make a deal for him to put in a proper door and call it even.

RS Reaper · 11-02-2009, 01:13 PM

I agree with Gumby, get him to put in the door and never go back. I know your pissed and want to make him pay but it almost never works; are court system is not what it should be. Best way to take them down is to write a review on a local area forum that people will see and tell all your friend to stay clear of them, it will spread and people will not trust them. It worked for me.

radical82 list is pretty good on finding a good shop tho with the parts thing all the shops I use now will install the part I buy from my auto store so I get better part cheaper then there cheap parts.

Also you have to have like local car shows. I live on the edge of three "Cities" and each have there own, go to these and talk to the car guys. It feels stupid at first cause you feel like an idiot but the car guys are usually very happy to share there experience and point you to good shop in your area (if not there not car people). That's how I found the shops I go to now, bit older style (no neons, or crap hang off the wall, do have a coffee maker lol) but true hard working die hard car lovers, that know everything.