ok i have an 83 z28 with a 305. the car had a cross fire injection on it, but the guy i got it from said it went out so he changed it to carb'd. the motor is stock, with a new distributor (hei), new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, ignition module, and edelbrock eps intake, and holley 600 just got rebuilt. im getting plenty of fuel with the mechanical fuel pump, and carb. im getting fire to all of the plugs. i have checked compression on all cylinders and they are all good. everyone i have talked to says this is a timing issue. the car turns over fine but will not start. 1. on the cam and crank gear when i set the timing with the marks at 12 and 12 and the distributor rotor pointing at the number 1 plug at top dead center on compression stroke it just turns over even when i spray starter fluid or pour gas in the carb i still get nothing just turning over. 2. when i set the timing at 12 on the crank gear and 6 on the cam gear ( which is what the chilton says to do) i tried just setting the rotor pointing at the number 1 plug on the FOLLOWING stroke at tdc just for the hell of it to see if it would work and then it puffs or kinda back fires thru the carb every revolution. 3. now when i set the timing at 12 on the crank gear and 6 on the cam gear ( which is what the chilton says to do) and same with the rotor on the distributor pointing at number 1 plug on tdc. with this timing set up i can pour gas in the carb and it tries to fire up but then shuts off in less than 1 second and sometimes shoots flames out the carb when it dies. please can somebody tell me what i am doin wrong or what i am doing right. i have tried every timing set up there is. and i am out of ideas. any help is good help, thanks!

Are you saying that you changed cam vs crank timing? Or just distributor timing? It sounds like you are only changing distributor, but I want to be sure.

Years ago I knew a guy who set up the timing chain wrong on a 350, and he bent all the valves. A lot depends on how much clearance there is between pistons and valves.

If you didn't mess with cam timing, and you have good compression, the most likely explanation is that you have carbon tracking on your rotor or distributor cap. The spark follows the carbon track to the wrong contacts, or to ground. Also make sure that your ignition wires are good. When they get old, they tend to get 'leaky', and often will short to ground or each other.

when i say i changed cam and crank gear timing what i mean is i took the timing chain off and when i say i put the cam or crank gear at 12 or 6 im talking about the timing marks on the crank and the cam gear, and yes i have done distributor timing to match it as well, all wires are brand new, all ignition components are brand new. cap, rotor, coil, plugs, wires, distributor, ignition coil, and power wires for the distributor. i just cant figure it out man.

You're not the only one having this issue.

My 87 Firebird is doing the SAME thing. I put a new coil, cap, rotor, plugs, and wires on as well. Timing is dead on. Plenty of fuel getting into the carb, plenty of spark at the plugs, plenty of air in the atmosphere....

Infact, my car would crank for so long that the starter finally gave out. Actually, I think it was already on it's last leg, since I bought the car only a week ago.

My next mission is to install the starter I just got today and then check compression. If I have good compression then I'm not sure where I'll go from there. Sensors? ECM? Turbo Encabulator?...I just don't know.

weell see my car doesnt have any sensors on the motor or block or heads at all anywhere its just a plain ole set up.

Yeah. It sounds like you'll be better off at pinpointing your problem then I will. I have more emissions stuff on my '87 then I can shake a stick at...and who knows if thats what is causing my problem or not.

Have you tried talking to the guru's over at earlythirdgen.com? They are mostly dedicated to Firebirds, but they might be able to help you out as well. They were great at helping me with my '84 T/A.

http://www.earlythirdgen.com/forums/

Well, what worries me is that if you messed up the cam timing, you may have bent your valves. However, your description of what you did tells me that your cam timing should be OK, since the cam will make one rev for every two revs of the crank... the two positions that you mention are consistent with each other.

You may want to double-check your firing order. It's not hard to mess that up. A common error is to run it in reverse order of the rotor travel.

How old is the fuel in the tank? Maybe you need to try and flush it out and replace it with new.

I have seen cases where a starter that is drawing too much current will prevent the engine from starting because the ignition system is getting low voltage...

Replacing the starter might just clear your problem up.

How are you checking that your at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke. You may be attempting to set it on the EX stroke.

Also If you are using an old damper and using tdc as indicated by that you could be off because the outer ring tends to slip.

Why in the world were you trying to set the cam at 12 and 12?

Also, what kind of "timing tab" or "pointer" are you using, it has to match up with your dampers diameter ie; 6" or 8".

timing was set at 12 12 when i first got the car.

ok here is the deal, i talked to a friend of mine.... he told me to set the timing at 12 and 6, then point the distributor rotor towards the number 6 plug on the distributor cap,.... sounds wierd but believe it or not it worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now the problem i have is keeping it running, as long as i pour gas in the top of carb it will stay running but if i dont pour it in and i just hit the throttle all it does is kinda tries its best to stay running but it wont stay running on its own to where i can let go of the ignition switch, i have to keep the starter on and it tries its damndest to run.
so im thinkin its either bad gas or the carb.

the gas is a kinda piss/ pee yellow color.
could that be my problem?

not to look down but how do you know your getting spark whats tests did you do check carburetor gasket i know it sounds stupid but had that problem before its ok though my car is doing same thing i havent tested half of the stuff i should but idc i got other cars to drive and the drag strip is still closed lol but let me say water in block? fouled plugs? i mean **** if your cranking and cranking and pumping fuel you might foul them so be careful but if you not getting spark make sure the bottom of the ignition module aint grounding out on the bottom just through on a coating of grease and try again also check connections from the starter wires and make sure your battery cables arent burnt or cut cause your gunna need the voltage to fire up hei and dont forget to check fuses i know it sounds stupid but stuff happens dont let it be something simple to ruin your month lol cause it does happen. just keep us updated on what your trying and if you resolve your problem.

to you palmerracing make sure you dont have it set 180 degrees off cause thats what it will try to do just make sure

well guys i got the car going.

a friend of mine called me and told me to set the timing on the crank and cam gears at 12 and 6 pointing at eachother.... and set the distributor rotor pointing towards number 6 plug wire on the cap!!!!!!!

wierd huh...... BUT IT FIRED RIGHT UP!!!!!!!!

thanks for all the help!!!!!!

now i just have to figure out why it tries to bawg down when i hit the throttle if i aint easy with it lol.

If crank and cam are at 12 and 6 you have on the exhaust stroke not compression stroke #1 piston should be at tdc . mark on tabs lined up at 0, when chain is put in correctly, dizzy needs to be on #1 cylinder on the cap, thats why you are running like crap you goy it 180 degrees out.

There was a time when SBC timing gears set dot-to-dot was the #1 firing position (the 283 in the '57, for instance), but that changed for some reason in the 60's. Don't know why, but that's been the case for a long time now.

Glad you got it running.

all it was was a little adjustment to carb and turn the dist a little and its runnin great!!!!!!!! thanks for all the help!!!

sir if i may ask you a question concerning the timing on a 83 camaro with a 305 cfi , the timing mark is asking for 6 degree's DR what does this mean I know what tdc or btdc. thank you for any incite into this JW

should be btdc

Fuel pump?