welchk85

can someone explain how to do this paper clip trick on a 1990 camaro rs with the 3.1 i need it explained as if you wre talking to a child lol
thanks
i geuss i just dont understand how to count the flashes.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello welchk85!!

The paperclip trick goes like this, find your ALDL connector under the dash, about knee level, on the right hand drivers side. Remove the cover by pulling straight back, (your cover may not be there due to a stupid mechanic's inability to put things back to original conditions)!! As your looking at the connector, the top two (side by side) right hand holes are terminals A and B. Unbend the paperclip, with the ignition off, insert one end of the paperclip into the A terminal and the other end into the B terminal, then turn your key to the on position (do not start your car) the fan should start to run, and then the service engine soon light should flash!! Watch the flashes, it will flash once, then pause, then flash twice, it will do this three times, then it will flash any stored codes in the same fashion, (ie: Code 32 would show up as three flashes followed by a pause, and then two flashes) once it flashes the stored codes, it will start the process all over again!!

To stop this, turn the key to off, and remove the paperclip, replace your cover if you have one!!!!

JakeJr

Right. If, as an example if the code is 24, you'll see two quick flashes, then a short pause, the four quick flashes then a longer pause (longer than the first pause), then two quick flashes a short pause then four quicker flashes and the longer pause again. This will repeat one more time for a TOTAL of three times.

The ECM then automatically moves to the next stored code and flash it a total of three times. Once all the stored codes are displayed, code 12 (one quick flash a short pause then two quick flashes, then a longer pause) will flash. This let you know that all of the stored codes have been displayed.

Jake

welchk85

oh ok i did it and got 3 blinks short pause and then 4 blinks long pause what does that mean 34? i have been having problems with this for the entire winter it wouldnt run at all so i changed the plugs,wires,oil pressure sending unit,air filter,oil, and oil filter and its running fine but once i put it in gear (automatic) it boggs way down im not sure how far as my tach is broken but it boggs down and i get like no power the only thing i can think of is vac lines because they are weather cracked pretty bad do you think that would cause a no power issue?

JakeJr

The purpose of pulling the code is to prevent guessing and identify the cause by the stored code. You pulled code 34, now you have to look up what that code means then folllow the trouble-shooting procedures to correct the problem.

Do you have a service manual, Haynes, etc., so you can look it up? If not, you've got to lay your hands on one for now and for the future. In only have a 86 and a 96 FSM so they may not show the correct code for your 90. My 86 manual shows Code 34 is a low voltage MAF problem.

Maybe someone can chime in with more help.

Jake

MADMAXGTA

iTrader: (1)

http://www.troublecodes.net/GM/

welchk85

ok 34 says that it is a low voltage problem on the maf now is that potentially a easy fix or do i have to replace the MAF because as far as i can see they are around $90 im pretty broke.

JakeJr

You must first look up what code 34 means for YOUR year engine going by the VIN code designation for YOUR car.

Code 34 can mean MAF sensor or MAP sensor (two different sensors) depending on your specific VIN code. I'm not familar with the 1990, so I can't advise you on that. You've gotta look it up.

Jake

welchk85

yeah i did look it up and sorry its the MAP sensor what exactly is that for?

welchk85

actually i do know what that is when i unplug it and run the car it seems to run a little better but the ses light turns on
so i should probley change that do you think that would make a major difference sorry im new to camaros ive always had dodge and i never really had these sort of problems

Saabster

iTrader: (2)

Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor. It's kinda important.

welchk85

well im not debating weather or not its important of course its important i just dont understand why the car actually runs better without it plugged in but im geussing that because it runs better when unplugged i should probley replace it. i will do that within a couple days and let you guys kknow if it fixes the problem.

welchk85

ok all together all the codes are as follows 12,34,43,44 and its a 3.1 v6 1990 camaro rs with V for the vin. so im geussing 34 means change the MAP,43 knock sensor? and 44 would be to change the o2 sensor? or can all of these codes tie into one thing? because as far as i can see all of them had an electrical issue could it be something that they all tie into that is having a electrical issue or would it be the individual parts?

87IROC-DAN61

Hello welchk85!!

Do yourself a favour, and clear all your codes first!! Then, start up your car, and see if it sets any or all of the codes again!! Some of your codes may be old ones that are fixed, or were intermitten, and haven't been cleared yet!!

Helps to start fresh!!

Clear your codes by removing the negative battery cable for 30 seconds, or remove the ECM fuse beside the battery for 30 seconds, this is the recommended way, less wear, and tear on your battery's negative cable bolt!!

Sometimes, one code will be tied into another.......also, code 12 is just the computers way of telling you that its working, you will always get a code 12.........if you don't get code 12.........you have an ECM problem!!

JakeJr

Excellent advice.

Jake

JakeJr

Apparently you're running a Speed Density engine, meaning NO MAF. I've never worked on one of them but here's what I've read, IIRC: If the MAP fails, the ECM detects that and the system automatically reverts to OPEN LOOP operation.

IIRC, from tests run by TPIS, in that OL mode, the engines they tested made more power, but TPIS specifically stated that's not their recommended mode. TPIS didn't say why, as I recall. In that mode, there's basically no adjust ability/adaptability to changing conditions because the system running from pro-programmed tables.

As I recall, in OPEN LOOP, the engine runs only on input from the Throttle Position Sensor and Coolant Temperature Sensor. You guys can check me on that.

Those OL tables may actually provide slightly better fuel and timing curves to the engine under certain conditions, but when conditions change, things may go the other way. i suspect fuel mileage is negatively impacted.

Maybe some more familiar with Speed Density systems can chime with better info for you. As I said, I've never worked on a SD engine, so I never delved into their workings too deeply.

Sorry I couldn't help more.

Jake

welchk85

so i pulled the battery terminal and let it sit for 2 minutes and started the car let it run for about 20 minutes and light didnt come on i paperclipped it anyways and got no codes other than 12 which of course is suppose to be there and again it ran ok in park but once i put it in gear the engine bogged down and runs like crap could it be either the feul filter or feulpump? or could it be vacuum or plugged cat?

87IROC-DAN61

Hello welchk85!!

It doesn't hurt to change the fuel filter, especially if you haven't done it in a long time, or don't know when it was done last!!

Have your fuel pump pressure checked to see if it is within spec!!

Post back your findings!!

shahi

guys mine threw a code 24, i guess it is the vss. is it important to replace it???? btw it is 91 5.0L stock manual tranny

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

ECM Codes here by engine

lo-z

Sorry, correct me if my book is wrong, but it say here.
"Whenever the POSITIVE battery cable is disconnected, all stored trouble codes in the ECM are erased."
And the pigtail is also on the positive side. Now, I was always told that these cars computer systems run on a ground system and to always disconnect the ground first when working on it. Something seem strange.

87IROC-DAN61

Hello lo-z!!

You must be quoting the Haynes manual, I've seen that in there too!!

Whenever you disconnect the battery, you always disconnect the negative terminal first, then the positive, and do the reverse to hook it back up!!

The GM Service manual says to "remove battery voltage for 30 seconds", this can be accomplished by removing the negative terminal, or by removing the ECM fuse!!

I prefer to remove the ECM fuse........it's easier, and it works!!



I've seen the pig tail on the positive side, and wondered about that also!!

It seems that even removing the negative battery cable, it's still got a ground wire going to the body, which I thought would help keep the codes stored, being that it's easier to remove the fuse, it also removes all doubt about any codes still stored!!



P.S. I've used both of my methods, and they both work!!

lo-z

That's good to know, thanks. I was read about this paperclip method as I am having some isues with my 87 sport coupe 305 carbed throwing SES and choke light. here is the link if you can figure this out I would be greatful. I have been a proud owner of this Camaro for 14 years now.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...oke-light.html

and here are some photos too if your interested
http://photobucket.com/lo-z

87IROC-DAN61

Hello lo-z!!



I like the pictires, nice ride that you have there!!

I'll check out your other problem, and I'll post any solutions that I come up with in the other thread!!

Check the thread tomorrow, hopefully I can help you out by then!!

lo-z

Cool, thanks.

welchk85

ok so i found that the codes that i pulled were 43 and 44 the problem ended up being mab MAF sensor,Knock sensor, and the distributer was screwed so thats being changed over the weekend i will let you guys now how it goes.