jay173

So I was born in 80s and I want to know what are the best heads, cam and pistons you can get for a 305?


I noticed a piston maker sells 305 pistons up to 10.1 compression


I think the l89 cam is the best horsepower cam but im not sure


I know nothing of heads for these engines

The engines are big but fairly simple compared to the modern engines we work on in the shop. So I want to get an Idea of the best way to build these engines up.

I think I can get most of these things from the junkyards here in my small town there are sevral f body owners that gather up parts in reasonible shape to reuse.

Or

Is a crate motor or custom built engine the best way to go?

Atilla the Fun

You can do a Vortec 350 cheaper than you can get the TFS175 heads, and the 350 will stomp the TFS-headed 305 every time.
There never was any good reason to build a 305. I've done it several times, and the results have never been satisfying.
The 350 is a direct remove-and-replace, it couldn't be any easier. take the plunge, you'll be so glad afterward.

thesargster4

iTrader: (1)

Hey look at that, another 305 down talker. How typical.

I went with World S/R 2.02/1.6 heads, an edelbrock performer, a .488 lift cam, and a few other goodies on my L69 305, and i pull 2-3 cars on my buddys cammed 350 stealth ram formula. Just because we have 45 less cubes doesnt mean we cant make power. I made 364 horse, 334 torque on the dyno with simple bolt ons from ebay and the junk yard. Jay, dont let anyone tell you something cant be done with a 305. Sure, you can make power cheaper with a 350, ofcourse you can. But EVERY body does a 350 swap. Now, the 383 is even over rated. The way i look at it.. If fords 'bolt on' 302 can produce enough power to rape a built 383, then we can make something out of a 305.

one92rs

iTrader: (5)

the person you aare hating on has been building engines prolly longer than we have been born. some of yall need to listen to him.

Atilla the Fun

You disrespecting me for my disrespecting the 305 proves you've never experienced a strong 350. You really can't fairly compare them until you've experienced both. So go spend $2000 on a 305, then spend another $2000 on a 350, then try both of them in the same car. Install the 305 first, because you'll never reinstall it. If you do try this, but install the 350 first, you will reinstall the 350 after trying the 305. That's just the way it ALWAYS is, for EVERYONE!
305s are crap. Not quite as crap as 2.8s, but 305s don't even equal Vortec 4.3s.
Yes, it is typical that everyone disrespects the 305. There must be good reason for it, or only half the people would be doing it. The other half would love the 305. But it fails to be what we should reasonably expect it to be. And that's true whether stock, or mild built, or maximum built.
It's a mistake that GM failed to learn from until '93.
Back in '76, the 305 was new and unknown, so GM had no trouble installing it in about 3/4 of all '76 camaros. But by '77, the word was out, and they barely sold 10% of new Camaros fitted with the 305.
That right there should've been enough to convince GM that the 305 was a disaster.
The '82 S-10 was designed for the 305, IdK why it never got sold that way, that would've been the only sensible use for the 305. It sucks, it sucks, IT SUCKS! Period. There can be no argument, there's far too much proof against the 305. It's a commuter engine that'll give a long service life, but it'll never be a performance contender. It CAN'T!
Bashing me just makes you look foolish to everyone else, but if it makes you happy, have at it.

Guest

Is this the way your mother taught you to thank people for trying to help you? You damned ingrate.

Atilla the Fun

Liar. 2.02/1.60" valves and 0.488" lift CANNOT fit in a 3.736" bore.
The 383 is NOT over rated. I've done over 530 ft-lbs without high revs, nitrous or boost.
Ford's 302 has the same advantage over our 305 that our 350 has: a 4" bore.
305s in third gens are probably best utilized for mild turbo builds.
I do understand the desire to make something of the 305, when I was younger, I felt it too. That's why I did push a couple of them past 400 horses. Just because it can be done doesn't make it a wise thing to try. It isn't, wasn't, and won't be.
If you want good power from a 3.78" bore, get a newer LM7 5.3L.

Saabster

iTrader: (2)

What do revs have to do with torque? :P

Anyway, the problem with a 305 can be explained mathematically.

HP = Torque X RPMs

Torque = Displacement (not exactly, but for the purposes of this demonstration it's simplest to explain it this way)

So it in order to make a given HP, you need big torque at a low RPM number or a small torque at a high RPM number.

So obviously, a 305 can perform just as well if it can turn more RPMs. But here's the gotcha, all the components that go into a 305 are the same as a 350 except for the pistons which are actually more expensive. So to build a high revving 305 costs slightly more than a 350.

Simply put, anything a 305 can do, a 350 will do 15% better. And this doesn't speak to the issues of getting air into and out of a small black at high rpms. A 305 is forever gimped by the fact that head that fit a 350, don't fit a 305 always. If you want to build a high revving 5.0L, build a 302.

Guest

thesargster4, making things up to win an argument is nothing new. But people on here have posted pics proving the interference between 2.02" valves and 3.736" bores. You might have done what you claim if your cam really was a .465/.488, and if you ran doubled up head gaskets, but that's not what you typed, and what you typed has been proven flat out impossible.
Because you claimed to have done what we all know to be impossible, you've lost all credibility.
Go get a new username, and use it with a student mentality.
Atilla may rub you wrong, but if you knew his real name, in real life, you'd never doubt him. I live close to him, he helps me work on my cars.

mnorton

LOL! You have passion that's for sure! And yes you are right, the 305 is a bit of a whimp... But it's ok, still fun to drive, and it keeps me out of the ditch.... I think I'll try a bit of NOS sometime soon to see if that makes it fast enough...

jay173

Jamie dont put me down when I posted this question to learn about these cars, im sure I could build an import that would out preform your guys cars for alot less because thats what I learned on.

I have almost no experince on american cars except chryslers wich used many mitsubishi and mercedes parts yes imports are nothing like our american engines.

I am here on the thirdgen form to learn I get cheap cars on the side to learn all the details because one day I want to be a really good tuner.

Thats what I enjoy is fixing and tuning cars and fixing up old cheap cars that would cost more to have a shop do it and has become my hobby.

After all I am trying to learn not start an argument.

I was just trying to get some ideas of how much and what improvments a 305 owner can do over a weekend and finish fixing this camaro.

Saabster

iTrader: (2)

jay173 didn't make anything thing up, it was thesargster4.


jay173, The thing about the small block chevy V8 is that you can take it as far as you want to go. And the 305 isn't the best performance bed.

For example, the best heads for a 305 are TFS Super 23 175 heads. They cost at least $1000. For that amount of money you can get a used 350 short block with Vortec heads that are nearly as good as the TFS heads.

Oh, there's something you should know with small blocks, rpms are generally not your friend. Most stock bolts (mains and con rod) are not the best and can give allowing bearings to spin. The cranks are cast too. Also, the valvetrain stability is not great either. What this boils down to is your typical stock RPM limit is around 5500 and modified your max is about 6500 unless you want to spend a ton of money.

This is why you want to go 350, since increasing the RPMs is difficult, going bigger is the best way to make power.

However, even a pathetic 305 with LO3 swirl port heads can be made to cough out 250-270 hp at 4500 rpms and around 330-350 lb-ft.

So the question is where do you want to go with your small block and we can tell you how to get there.

Atilla the Fun

good catch on who claimed the impossible.
I don't believe a stock headed LO3 can see over 300 ft lbs or about 240 horses without boost or nitrous, and even at the 240/300 level, the cam would be undriveably big, even with TPI.
Also, I see you earlier asked about the relationship between torque and rpm.
Lots of people think that torque is strictly a function of cubes, compression, runner length, and maybe fast burn chambers. But that isn't the whole story.
Getting past that requires amazing head flow, but the higher the rpm at which the engine can breathe, the more potential you get for more torque per displacement. You do up the compression, but still, it's not a race gas only thing.

Saabster

iTrader: (2)

Flywheel or rear wheels? I did a computer simulation and it said 375, which I didn't think was actually possible. I'll figure it out once mine is back on the road and megasquirt. Honestly 240 isn't bad as that's about all the power the 75 lb TBI injectors can support.

Yeah, it's not as simple as TORQUE = DISPLACEMENT, but when talking about a normally aspirated engine, they are directly related. As the rpms are capped on a 305 by the same issues that hinder a 350, the 350 is always the superior choice.

Atilla the Fun

I've tried them all, and there is no computer simulation that can consistently get within 10% of what I've done on a real dyno. When I type HP, or TQ, I mean at the crankshaft, otherwise I type RWHP or RWTQ, because I truly hate front wheel drive and therefore assume the wheel power MUST be at the rear wheels. I guess I could start typing CSHP and really confuse the issue, huh? :-)

Saabster

iTrader: (2)

Well if you're assuming RWD if you state a RWHP number, the R seems a bit redundant doesn't it. :-P

Guest

My apologies to Jay, I've edited my attack to be at the correct idiot. Oops, Now it looks like I'm dissing jay, that's not my intent. I seem to have a knack for foot-in-mouth.