Moe87

Car has become progressively worse over the past week so:

Ran seafoam today; half a bottle through the oil, a whole bottle in the gas tank (sunoco 93 ultra, full tank), and half a bottle straight through the charcoal filter vacuum hose to the TB directly.

The engine bay smoked rather heavily from the passenger side (not so much from under the car as inside the engine bay, manifold runs passenger side to cats). Engine before and after still idles rough and idle seems to fluctuate slightly (both surge and drop off) By slightly i mean give or take 100rpm and only for a very short time. Engine also begins to violently vibrate the car at around 3500 rpm and up. So much vibration that it shakes my garage door opener off the sun visor and pops my audio's head unit clean faceplate clean off.

Engine has 81k miles on it, original engine. Just changed oil + filter after the seafoam romp. Engine makes a small puff or put noise every so often, and there appears to be a very light "tinging" noise. I've attached soundfiles in my replies.

8t2 z-chev

sounds like it might have thrown a rod...
Get under and look for damage-could be a hole in the
block with smoke coming out

Moe87

I Doubt it's a thrown rod as the engine appears normal, no leaking oil and physically.. still runs. If it is a thrown rod, could it be contained inside the block without poking through and wouldn't the car cease to operate or lose power suddenly (like an inchworm effect ^^^^^?) I will have a shop inspect it on Monday for a second visual opinion.

--

I am adding pictures and some audio recordings of my engine.

Dark spots around oil are obviously oil (changed last night) and does not appear to leak from here.

Other spots are definitely coolant.

Moe87

Audio attached is no throttle, just park > reverse > neutral > drive(OD) then turning off the car.

I hear some sort of pinging or clanging going on, as if something is tapping the engine block.

8t2 z-chev

indeed a thrown rod usually does create a hole in the
block or other external evidence..
something has to be creating that vibration-a miss
shouldn't create the vibration you describe...
if you have a compression gauge you can do a
compression test to see if there are any dead cylinders.

Moe87

Checked the motor mounts (brake applied, little throttle) engine didn't budge so its not the motor rattling about; besides wouldn't it smooth out at higher rpms rather than get worse with a shot mount?

Moe87

Ordered hooker 2055's today and will have the shop check for the issue while installing them, unless it would be easy for an amateur like me with no lift access to do it myself. Bought a Haynes guide so i can visually see the steps to do so, just not the experience or lift to do so.

rustrider73

sounds like you have a spark plug wire off or burned and shorting out, or a bad spark plug.
something is causing the engine to missfire.

Rob00158

I agree with the above plug wire suspicion.

From the audio clip (to me anyway) doesn't sound like you're running 100% on all 8 cylinders.

Check HT leads, plug caps, distributor cap.

Moe87

Well since im getting the manifolds replaced with hooker headers, I will most likely pickup a fuel pressure regulator as well to bring things up to 46psi. During which time the upper engine will be disassembled so they can check then, am i correct?

The sparkplugs in my engine are relatively new (july-august) and are OEM equivalents. Would i be doing myself a favor and during this time get a performance plug set with new wiring? Most of the engine is still stock.

rustrider73

you will need a set of wires with 90 degree boots to clear the headers, new plugs cant hurt

aljohnsonii

id also check the lifters they sound like its tapping

HF_monster

also check for a cracked flywheel that can cause the vibration, couldnt hear too well on the audio files but if you have good oil pressure its not going to be a rod or crank issue.

davidearlcox

I hope this isn't the case, but the noises I am hearing in your audio files sound remind me of an engine in an old car of mine that suffered a broken crankshaft. It broke at a diagonal so the entire crankshaft would turn and the engine would fire on all cylinders, but the broken part of the crankshaft made a heck of a racket banging against the thrust bearing surfaces.

A possible way to check for this would be to see if there is any front to back play in the crankshaft by pulling and pushing on the harmonic balancer? If you can feel front to back play there more than a few thousandths, that would not be good.

Another possibility, I believe already mentioned, is a partially broken flywheel or flex plate.

86jjk656

i was thinking bent rod.. hydrostatic lock is all i think about when i hear "seafoam". crank shaft should be suspect aswell.. Pascalls law dictates that liquid cannot be compressed so when you introduce that product into your internal combustion engine, which requires a certain amount of compression the unfortunate results can be violently destructive. but good news, chey 400 crankshafts are in good supply and i smell a possible 383 stroker in the making!

talover111

+1

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

I would 3rd(?) the broken crankshaft or cracked flexplate/flywheel. When the engine cranks, its real uneven. Should be a steady cranking not sudden surge/slow. Def. something in or attached to the rotating assembly thats causing that vibration. The flexplate is a likely culprit as the center hub could have cracked, and rotated to another position, throwing the location of the external weight off.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Engine can still run with a thrown rod, but you will def. know that you threw one. Makes a hell of a bang most of the time, and the remains of the rod usually end up going thru the side of the block, or getting snared in the rest of the rotating assembly. I suppose this could also be a bent rod as well, especially if the motor was hydrolocked.

What did the oil look like? Did it have coolant in it? Any metal particles/pieces?


Edit: didnt see this is almost a month old. Ever find out what it was?

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

I didn't see this in the other posts but it also sounds like a bent or broken pushrod. The 2000 SS I had bent one and broke another in two places. Took it to the mechanic after I coudln't diagnose it and they couldn't find it either.
Weird tapping noise, missing, loss of power. started to repalce lifters (which requires removal of the heads in an LS1 and noticed the pushrods where bad.
I went ahead withth lifter replacement anyway. Could be worth your time to pull the valve covers and check them out. You have to have a hsarp eye to see them messed up without pulling them out.

Moe87

no problem was never fixed. as its winter now and a DD, its hard to find another vehicle to drive. car drives still, just sumps when you press the pedal, feels as if its going to stall on occasion and is now idling over 1200 rpm.

i have a busted stud on the passenger side clean broken off that needs replacing... all the studs are super rusty and likely to break the same way. Until i can find someone in my area willing to even attempt stud replacement, I am screwed there.

The car has 83k miles on original engine, and from what i know it was a show car for so long. With light driving, why would my crankshaft or flex plate be bad and how can i tell if these specifically are what is wrong? i cannot take the engine apart as i lack the resources and experience.

Auto shops in my area are literally avoiding working on my car. I kid you not, they have told me nothing is wrong, twice across two different places.

86jjk656

sounds like you got some serious issues. most mechanics wont touch something that they cant diagnos cause it turns into a money pit for the customer. try revving the motor and looking at the harmonic balancer at the same time. It should rotate pretty smoth, if you can see any vibration there then you know you have an issue with your rotating assembly. Its not gonna tell you a whole lot about your problem but its a start, short of pulling rocker arm covers and doing a visual

nickhil2003

maybe a few stuck valves? that would bend the push rods, try taking the valve covers off just to dismiss the bent push rod or busted rocker arm theory

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Take the belt off, start it up, see if you still have the noise. If it's still there, I'd start at the flexplate, and if that isn't it, you've got an internal problem.

Sure sounds like an accessory to me, though.

hydrolic144

iTrader: (2)

His harmonic balancer moving wouldn't be an issue. Unless it's obviously all over the place. Mine wobbles quite a bit but has no affect on my engine.

Moe87

I will pick up some valve cover gaskets at autozone sometime soon and bring all the heaters in my house into the garage to take them off and inspect.

Here is a newbie question: taking the belt off will disable power steering, water pump, alternator and smog pump. The car will not turn easy, nor will it cool itself as effectively and be running completely off the battery, correct? I'd say max 3 minutes running this way before i should turn it off, is this correct?

rustrider73

warm up the engine before you take the belt off, so your not reving the snots out of a cold engine. then you should know if that was what was making noise or vibrating real quick.

I listened to the sound clip again and it still sounds to me like a dead cylinder, (bad plug,smashed gap,wire off).

before removing the valve covers I would pull the plugs and check them and the compression,(free no cash involved)

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Dead cylinder usually wont cause that much vibration when the engine is under no load. It does cause some uneaveness, but from the sound clip, that thing is vibrating like hell. Still worth a shot, though.

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

you don't need new gaskets because you pull the covers unless you tear one. They should be the "rubber" ones and are reusable if you have centerbolt covers.
Disconnect your battery or you can arc a cover off the post on the back of the alternator
Dual 1000W work lights will keep you warm, trust me.

rustrider73

yea pull a sparkplug wire off your motor and rev it to 5000 rpm and see how it vibrates

Moe87

The engine, since posting the clips, has gotten 10x worse sounding and feeling, will upload new sound clips soon. During cold starts there is a scraping noise coming from inside somewhere; using a hose poking about did not pinpoint the area so it may be INSIDE the block. The sound, without recording it, sounds like an old shower with uneven pressure or mineral clogged spout. OR if anyones ever played with them, its like pumping a Super Soaker too much to the point is begins to make aweful noises... that noise!

I am fairly new to cars in general but ill research how to do a compression test and such and buy the tools at autozone this weekend.

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

Everybody starts somewhere. The only way you are gonna learn how to work on these cars is to tear into it. It is just like playing with legos. Everything has a place.

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

Any luck?

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Hate to say it, but it sounds like the engine is toast and is getting ready to quit on you. Might want to look into getting another motor at this point.

Draining the oil and inspecting it can tell you a lot about what is going on. If it and the filter are full of metal, than dont bother doing any further tests, the engine needs to come out.

Moe87

ive got a DD so the cars sitting in the garage, took it for a spin around the block today just to get things flowing and oiled. once spring rolls around ill be taking the engine apart piece by piece to check stuff out.

(new DD is a 94 volvo 940 turbo which ive already replaced all hoses, cleaned maf and make new gaskets for in the TB. adjusted the tps, still need to clean the oil trap and replace the oil but my god the 1" bolt on the pan is as tight as the virgin mary.

sabien

Originally Posted by HF_monster
also check for a cracked flywheel that can cause the vibration, couldnt hear too well on the audio files but if you have good oil pressure its not going to be a rod or crank issue.





I agree with HF_monster. It sounds to me like something from the fly wheel area.

Moe87

Alright its now spring 2011. Since my last post, i've purchased an old '94 volvo 940 turbo which i've been learning on. I feel a lot more comfortable taking the volvo apart as i could care less if its dead vs my beautiful bird.

I have the serp belt off the car, and before i go to crank it; checking for vibration and such, Will there be any negative effects on my engine? Should i only run it for a minute or so before turning it off?

Second question: if there really is too much going on with this motor, before i go updating it with new headers, exhaust, etc... what about the swap to 4th gen?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Just run it that way long enough to diagnose the problem. No need to drag on the process.

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

watch your temp and volts can run as long as it has juice and doesn't overheat

GTA1990

iTrader: (1)

blast from the past but wondering if anything came of this. I have a vibration throughout the rev range and have done the usual ignition, vac leaks, and fuel system analysis. The A/C causes a much more pronounced vibration but even with it off, the vibration is definitely there. I have a T5 and when taking off normally, you feel vibrations in the pedals/ floorboards.

I'll try serp belt off (no accessories) check.

hockeyman48

Check engine mounts also

GTA1990

iTrader: (1)

took serp belt off, no difference. Checked injectors - all ohmed around 16. Injector wiring tests okay as well.

I'm now back to thinking this is an ignition issue. I think it may be a weak spark from the coil. Ohm'd it and either my testing technique was a mess or it ohm'd really low. New one on order and will report back.

Not giving up without a fight...

I rock 88

Hello
This is one more thing to look at.
I would look at the harmonic balance if it is a stock one there is a rubber piece in the middle the dries out and causes vibrations. If it is ignored it could come apart and that would be catastrophic for the motor. Its a cheap fix if that's what it is this is just one more opinion

GTA1990

iTrader: (1)

thanks. It could be it though when I took the serp belt off it didn't look to have any wobble about it (not conclusive I appreciate).

Odd thing is it seems to get worse as the car gets warmer. I hear a faint tapping from the valve covers so could a stuck lifter? I'm reaching now I appreciate (!) but will give it the full seafoam treatment over the weekend and see where I stand.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

Just sayin, but if you got vibration issues like you mentioned, I personally wouldn't be feeding it Seafoam. I would be checking rotating components with Trans and Engine. Bad countershaft bearings in that T-5 you got cause all kind of vibration. JMO

no new tires

Sounds like an engine miss.