jerrya27

hi ther i have a 91 camaro rs 25th anv . with the tbi 350 so....here goes my problem .

OK so i go to get in my car and turn the key my fans power down like normal but the starter does nothing i have had small problems in the past such as the safety neutral switch but with a quick click all is normal again . now that wont work .
so this is what i did first unhooked the safety neutral switch the hook the fat green and purple together ..no change so i jack it up and try jumping the starter it just spins dose not engage i checked with a light for power none was going to the small side of the starter .then i tried a jump box to be sure didn't help.

today i go out and pull some more dash pieces off and found the security box i have unhooked it no change there...so i was sitting ther with a pair of wire jumpers and i hook one to the purple neutral safety wire and then touch it to the orange power wire for the stereo then it turns over hut i think it might be turning backwards im not sure what to do from here plz help and sorry for my awefull typing skills

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

ok so you kno how on teh starter there are 3 cables, 2 big ones on the soleniod and a very small one? one is power from teh battery, the other is power from teh soleniod to teh starter motor, the small on is power from the ignition key

FROM what your saying you have no power at the ign wire to the starter, id say that wire has a short or is broke somewhere between the key and the soleniod or the ign switch is bad, which is possible for the START position not to work

BUT i have never messed with a camaro with the security system but those are what i usually look at first

jerrya27

hmm so what should i do to check to see if this is the problem?

TheMonster

track that wire down, and replace if needed.

jerrya27

well i will go take the steering colm apart and see if i can find it ... wish me luck will post pics or maybe a vid tomorrow v jerry

ASE doc

Your car has VATS anti theft. It wont start because the VATS system wont let it. Generally, on intermittent failures like you're having, its the contacts in the ignition cylinder not making good contact with the resistor plug in the key. Try cleaning the key up(note the little contacts up by the head of the key). Then wiggle the key in the cylinder. Be sure you have everything hooked up for this. The car will not run without the fuel enable signal from the VATS module.

If you choose to delete this system, you will need to install a VATS bypass module as well as bypass the start enable relay.

jerrya27

OK im going out now im gonna try to clean up the key does anyone know if ther should be power going the safety neutral switch coming from the big purple or green?

ASE doc

Sorry, I forgot this thread. Power to the NS switch is only in "start" position of the ignition switch and will be on the grn/wht wire. The ppl wire is power to the starter with the NS switch closed.

jerrya27

ok like a retard i lost the key to my car ....or my daughter flushed it who knows but now im going to get a holly 4 barel what all would i haft to rewire to cut out the old computer and ignition? the mortar is a tbi 350 it has the throttle body now.

camaronewbie

1st - if your car is stock, then it's not a 350, it's a 305 - there were no factory 350TBI's in any 3rd gen F-body.

2nd - if you lost the key, and have no spare anywhere whether a pellet spare or not, then you are going to have to replace the key cylinder regardless of carbing the car or not. Unless you do a simple push button starter switch, in which case you'll have no anti-theft at all.

3rd - here's a starter cicuit troubleshooting guide explaining the wiring, the components, the VATS, etc. that might help: http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=38 You can follow that article and troubleshoot.

4th - carbing the car isn't going to help your ignition problem. If you are going to carb the car anyway, OK. But swapping to a carb simply to solve the ignition issue is same as cutting off your arm because you broke your finger. Swapping to carb will cost you several $100 - $1000 depending on what you have already, what carb you choose, etc.

5th - there's a sticky in the carb forum about swapping to carb - You'll need a return-style fuel pressure regulator like the Mallory 4309 ($100), a carb ($250 - $500), a carb intake ($125 - $300), proper TV cable linkage geometry corrector for the carb you choose ($30), and a method of locking the torque converter in the tranny (assuming it's an automatic) ($20 - $100). Like I said, that's alot of cash to throw at a simple ignition issue.

6th - if you are swapping to carb - you need to keep all wires in the driver side harness (which includes your ignition problem). Most of the pass side wiring harness gets deleted, but I would not cut anything at all until I got the swap done, and the car running, and running well for several weeks/months. The pass side wires will tuck nicely in the fenderwell out of sight, and may come in handy - I know I used my extra wiring for all kids of things - can't get better than factory wiring for accessories between inside car and outside - the factory harness is sealed nicely and out of sight until needed.

jerrya27

lol i blew up the 305 it has a 350 tbi in it now

jerrya27

and yes im planing on going to a push button setup seeing how i have a lack of resources .

ASE doc

If you did a carb conversion, you would remove half the VATS function(fuel disable). Bypassing the start enable relay would delete the rest. However, as camaronewbie has said, swapping to a carb isn't as simple as it may seem.

jerrya27

i think im going to do it

kevinc

redacted

jerrya27

ok so i found my keys in a box of cheerios lol joys of children.so i pulled off the too panels underneath the drivers side dash. i unplugged the theft box tried again nothing same thing .....so i figure i will try to find a break in the ignition wires.How would i go about getting the plastic covers off the steering column do i need u remove the steering wheel?

kevinc

redacted

camaronewbie

Here's a starter troubleshooting guide - follows the entire starting circuit:

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=38

Here's VATS troubleshooting guide and info on how to bypass:

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=10

https://www.thirdgen.org/vats_passkey_system

BEFORE you do anything - get a copy of that key made and bury it in the sock drawer - $25 at any ACE hardware store - worth it's weight in gold!

jerrya27

going back out now i need to get the steering wheel off so i can see if ther is any broken wires in the ignition any suggestion in how to remove the wheel i have the air bag off and the nut just dont wana break the column getting it off

kevinc

redacted

jerrya27

k i will try this tomorrow

jerrya27

k i had someone come over to take a look at it we were able to determine that the problem is with the fuel the pump works wen we go to unhook the line fuel comes out but not going threw the throttle body he says that ther is no injector pulse we dumped fuel in and turned it over by jumping the safety neutral it started but wouldnt keep fuel going in wen i turn the key it wont do anything not sure were to turn from here

jerrya27

i realy hope somone can help me out here i feel if i can get the injectors to work i can just jump it off the saftey netral wire to start it plz help it is my only car !!!!

kevinc

redacted

jerrya27

the pump turns on and works it seems to be something to do with injector pulse
so ...

kevinc

redacted

jerrya27

no but it could be broken ...

kevinc

redacted

jerrya27

im uploading a vid to try to explain whats going on ty for all ur patients with me im 19 my skill set with the wiring is so low

jerrya27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL5Fi4I2sJ4

jerrya27

the injector wont spray for idel just wen u use the gas any ideas were to check next?

kevinc

Looking at your "other" videos it's pretty clear why you're having so much trouble reassembling your car, and there's nothing we here at TGO can do to fix that.

If you want to mentally handicap yourself that's your choice, mate.

Personally I think it's better for the public in it's current condition.

jerrya27

lol not that its even relavent but thers no need to insult me. i have my medical permit i am from a med state i find it hard to believe that im the only one here with one so y dont u step down off your horse

jerrya27

got it running thank you all mostly u kevinc.

kevinc

All I'll say is please don't drive it while intoxicated.

jerrya27

i may smoke for medical reasons, but i do obey the laws. it is a crime even in a medical state to drive while being under the influence of marijuana. i am not a criminal. therefore, sure no problem i will not drive under the influence... thank you so much for your help with my car... my camaro has never ran better. and i plan to be an active member of third gen through the foreseeable future.

kevinc

What was wrong w/ it, and what did you do to fix it?

jerrya27

it was the VATS. i finally found a diagram that showed that the wire was wrapped around the airbag wires. once i found this i went and bought an OHMs meter and tested the key... i took me a minute that it was 4,700 resistance aka key 11. i thought at first it was 470 which was key one. once i figured this out i added a series of 470 resistors to the purple and white VATS wire. turned the key and it fired up... it ended up costing $3 for the resistors and $40 for the OHMs meter. thanks again for all your help!!

jerrya27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzPf3y6HJoQ
thought i would post this thx again for all the help

kevinc

Seems like it idles at around 1800rpm, is that what you're seeing? If so, check thoroughly for a vacuum leak...disconnected or cracked vacuum hose, throttle body loose, brake booster hose loose or cracked, etc.

jerrya27

shes a cold blooded beast idles high wen its cold