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Old 02-16-2012, 12:35 PM   #1
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Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

I have seen many posts all over the internet of people saying the LS6 Beehive valve springs will fit the 96-00 Vortec 5.7 heads using 787-16 Comp retainers and stock Vortec keepers, thus requiring no machine work. Numerous threads say they will fit or show a head on a bench with the springs installed, yet I have not actually found where anyone is driving a car with this combo installed. If the Comp Cam #26918 Beehive valve spring is a replacement, it would reason that the LS6 spring would work.

It seems that most of the magazine articles that I came across to increase valve lift points to Comp Cam #26918 springs (due to advertisement money?) rather than significantly cheaper LS6 springs. None of these article mentioned LS6 springs. The LS6 spring is $68 and the Comp is $193.

The maximum RPM in the Corvette Z06 is 6500 rpm. My 350 with Vortec heads will rarely see 6000 rpm if ever. I am thinking if the GM OEM springs are good enough for LS Roller motors, then they should be good enough for any vortec build. At only $68, its a steal.

I am going to replace my original 77 350 top end and duplicate GMPP 350HO:

-GMPP Stock Vortec Heads (#12558060)
-GMPP Cam (#24502476)
-Edelbrock Performer Vortec Intake (keep my q-jet). I really want the air gap but that means new carb.
-Fel-Pro 0.015 shim head gasket to bring up compression to around 9.1-9.5 :1
-Long tube headers

I was thinking about the comp cam XE262 or even the XE268 with 1.6:1 rockers which would put the valves beyond the vortect limit of .481. This is why I was thinking about the LS6 springs for low price of $67.

With the GMPP #24502476 cam, the exhaust valve lift with 1.5:1 factory rocker arm ratio 0.460. The Ramjet 350 has stock vortec heads, roller cam, 1.6:1 rockers which puts the max valve lift to .481" all day long.

http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...Jet_Engine.pdf

Anyone here actually using the LS6 spring and using it?

The yellow is the LS6 spring and the other is the Comp Cam #26918 spring.

Waid
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:00 PM   #2
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Are the heads off the car right now? Could you measure and double check to be absolutely sure? I've read too that these springs will work well and actually give more lift. Never seen an accurate measurement done tho and different castings may have different height guide bosses so valve lift could vary from head to head.

I have a set of factory LS6/LS2 yellow springs off of a set of 243 LSx castings. Dont know how much mileage on them but they appear to be in good shape. I could send you a spring to check. Or all of them for a few bucks. They should be plenty of spring for your goals. Dimensions wise they appear to be just like a comp beehive
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:47 PM   #3
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

I didnt think vortec heads could allow for comp cam valve lifts??
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:08 PM   #4
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

I didn't use LS6 springs but I used LS1 springs. I used those comp retainers and stock keepers. The lift measurement with stock retainers was .470 until it hit the valve seal. With the comp retainers it maxed out at .532 on my heads with stock vortec valve seals.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:20 PM   #5
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilSki View Post
I didn't use LS6 springs but I used LS1 springs. I used those comp retainers and stock keepers. The lift measurement with stock retainers was .470 until it hit the valve seal. With the comp retainers it maxed out at .532 on my heads with stock vortec valve seals.

Click the image to open in full size.
So you replaced the stock retainers and keepers with LS1's and it brought up the valve lift of vortec heads from .47 to .532? ...nice....
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:15 PM   #6
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Both springs will fit on the head with no problem, and both will support your RPM range.
The difference between the two is that the LS6 springs reach bind sooner than the Comp 918 springs.
I always measure each case, not assuming anything when setting up a spring swap. If it comes too close to bind for my liking, then machine the spring pockets a bit deeper to increase the installed height of the spring. If that would leave too little seat pressure for my liking then I use a different spring.
I have ran 0.630" lift with the Comp 918s with no problem.
the LS6 springs I only use for mild cams of around 0.500" lift or lower.
Either way I recommend measuring what you've got.

FYI, on most of my swaps I use stock LSX retainers and locks, not the Comp retainers, so your installed height would be a little different.
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:19 AM   #7
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

I am running the LS6 springs.

Here is my thread: http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/te...ortec-lt4.html (5.7 Vortec LT4 Hotcam Install Pics and Information)

I still recommend since the motor is not installed to go ahead and have the machine work done. This will let you swap to a larger cam down the road if you would like without any extra work.
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Old 02-22-2012, 12:06 PM   #8
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ View Post
I have a set of factory LS6/LS2 yellow springs off of a set of 243 LSx castings. Dont know how much mileage on them but they appear to be in good shape. I could send you a spring to check. Or all of them for a few bucks. They should be plenty of spring for your goals. Dimensions wise they appear to be just like a comp beehive
If op hasn't acted on your offer to take the yellow springs off your hands, can the offer be extended to me?? I will take them! You can Pm me a price and Paypal info if you are willing to make a deal.
I recently picked up a set of vortec heads along with a .486 int/.503 exh lift roller cam so I am in need of some springs.
I have read 3rdgenmaro's post several times, his post actually helped me decide to finally get my vortec heads.
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:48 PM   #9
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

I was already contacted by another person and sold the springs to him. Sorry

Keep an eye out on LS1tech for ppl selling their stock springs.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:10 PM   #10
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Just FYI... GM sells the same part number... same springs, but they're now painted blue. So dont let that trip you up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waid786 View Post
yet I have not actually found where anyone is driving a car with this combo installed. If the Comp Cam #26918 Beehive valve spring is a replacement, it would reason that the LS6 spring would work
The reason you dont find many people who do it is this is pretty much something that affects ONLY Vortec heads. Vortec heads are priced oddly, in that some people who buy them have the extra money to burn, and some are on a tight tight budget.

What you end up with is a bunch of guys like me who run a flat tappet cam in them, or guys like skinnyz with a new aggressive aftermarket roller cam. These new aftermarket roller cams have much more aggressive ramp rates than the factory style roller cams.

Those LS3 springs just dont have enough seat pressure to control valve float on a lot of newer grinds. And regardless of whatever you use them on, I'd probably suggest shimming them as much as is reasonably possible to increase the seat pressure, but make sure you keep your guide-retainer clearance acceptable.

What this means is... basically, the LT4 hotcam is pretty much the biggest, baddest roller cam the yellow springs can handle. A lot of people go roller got a bit bigger on the cam. But in my opinion this clever set of parts are made for each other. Vortec heads, LT4 hotcam, LS3 springs, and beehive retainers are a nearly perfect combination.

Just make sure you measure what valve guide/retainer clearance you have and if you have a lot of excess, go ahead and shim up the spring to increase the seat pressure. At 1.75 you get to 105 lbs of seat pressure. At 1.8 you get 90lbs of seat pressure. You will lose valve guide to retainer clearance and coil bind clearance by shimming them up, but with 1.5 rockers on an LT4 hotcam you're only at .500 lift. If you can measure your clearances, shims, etc, well, and you can verify you have an extra .025 inches of clearance, go ahead and throw 1.6 ratio rockers on there. I probably wouldnt try to push past .525 lift with those springs. Most cams that can do taht are too aggressive for them anyway, though.

LS3 yellow/blue springs:
1.75 = 105lbs seat pressure
1.80 = 90 lbs seat pressure

Note, however, that 100 lbs of seat pressure is perfect for mild/medium flat tappet cams.

Last edited by InfernalVortex; 02-22-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:23 PM   #11
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ View Post
I was already contacted by another person and sold the springs to him. Sorry

Keep an eye out on LS1tech for ppl selling their stock springs.
.

Thanks anyway! I appreciate it!
As far as the blue springs, i had been researching them but wasn't quite sure whether i should get those or hold out for some of the recommended yellow ones. I guess i'll give those a try depending on what deals i'm able to find. Either way, i'll post back here once i have either set installed and running.
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:32 PM   #12
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

With so many guys doing cam swaps on late models, I think its best you find a set of medium/lower mileage springs from someone doing a new valvetrain. Its most cost effective this way. Perfect choice for flat tappets and mild roller cams.

Mild step up over stock thats in the .480-.500 lift range is good fit for these springs like said above. They dont have much seat pressure and much open pressure so they cant handle aggressive higher rpm roller lobes. However, slower ramp rates will work ok.

Comp 26918 beehives with 135lbs seat can handle more aggressive stuff if you go with something for more performance.
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:06 PM   #13
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ View Post
With so many guys doing cam swaps on late models, I think its best you find a set of medium/lower mileage springs from someone doing a new valvetrain. Its most cost effective this way. Perfect choice for flat tappets and mild roller cams.

Mild step up over stock thats in the .480-.500 lift range is good fit for these springs like said above. They dont have much seat pressure and much open pressure so they cant handle aggressive higher rpm roller lobes. However, slower ramp rates will work ok.

Comp 26918 beehives with 135lbs seat can handle more aggressive stuff if you go with something for more performance.

Thanks to this thread and Orr89 I've decided on what to do to get my HP where I want it. I thought I was going to have to buy better heads (which i still will do later on) but for the meantime I can just go with the LS6 springs/valves and get the comp cam installed so im sitting somewhere around 400HP.
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:45 AM   #14
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

wonder if these springs would work with the cam im getting for my vortec build, the cam 224/224 durration and my lift would be .528 with 1.5 rockers
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:40 AM   #15
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Is there a GM parts retainer for LS6 beehive spring which works wiith the stock style L98 valvestems?

I have a zz4 cam I the block and, well didn't do my homework when giving ok to put L98 heads on it.

Pinned studs enough for the springs with 1.5's and zz4 cam?

Thank you all for your posts!
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:26 AM   #16
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan3834me View Post
Is there a GM parts retainer for LS6 beehive spring which works wiith the stock style L98 valvestems?

I have a zz4 cam I the block and, well didn't do my homework when giving ok to put L98 heads on it.

Pinned studs enough for the springs with 1.5's and zz4 cam?

Thank you all for your posts!
Comp 787-16 is the part you're looking for.
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:20 AM   #17
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Not 2 high jack, but I have 2 sets of comp 918s NIB forsale. 150$ plus shiping PM me. if interested.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:38 AM   #18
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

Other options discussed here:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/en...ml#post5680457 (L31 Hot Cam - Requirements)
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:04 AM   #19
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

FYI
I wouldn't use beehives on any aggressive cam with 11/32 valves, I have had two break and one totaled the motor.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:30 AM   #20
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Re: Who here is running LS6 valve springs on stock Vortec heads?

What brand were you using? The only beehives i would trust when setup correctly are the PAC springs ones
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