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Old 11-18-2012, 01:31 PM   #1
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Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

Hi, i was wondering what is a good oil to run with a Flat Tappet cam, I run Mobil 1 or Amsoil in my cars/Bikes/quads and so on.

I am looking for a Oil in 10W30 to run in my Z28 that has a 350 and a Flat Tappet Cam,

These are the ones I am looking at
What are the Differences between the two Royal Purple ones?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rpo-01130/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rpo-31130/overview/

Why does this one say racing only? is a emissions thing?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/luc-10610-1/overview/

Here are some more, Thanks

http://www.summitracing.com/search/d...il-volume/1-qt

I think I can get Quaker state at the local Napa.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:42 PM   #2
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

I have always just ran full syn Mobile 1
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:01 PM   #3
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

That is what I always ran, I had some of the older Mobil 1 that I was using, ( I bought many cases years ago ) but I am running out now and figured I would switch to something that has enough Zinc and what not for the flat tappets,i guess the new Mobile 1 doesn't have as much as the old stuff and that could cause issues.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:53 PM   #4
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

I have always ran it in my flat tap motors and have never had a problem. I always broken them in with rotella T and then put Mobile 1 in and drive it like i stole it.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:34 PM   #5
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

Amsoil makes a newer oil called Z-Rod. It is designed for muscle cars and has a high zinc content for flat tappet motors. The newer Mobil 1 formulas are lower in zinc and not optimal for a flat tappet motor with out a zinc additive. The Mobil 1 high mileage formula has more zinc than the regular formula, still not as much as the Z-Rod.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:53 PM   #6
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

I run mobil 1 in mine with half ab ottle of comp's break in oil additive.

After perusing bobistheoilguy.com forums, it seems like most of the zddp stuff is snake oil BS. There have been some home grown tests that show adding zddp additives to quality oils degrades the protection. Some people disagree, but some dont. Sometimes additives severely upset the deterent packages that are in these oils.

Comp's break in additive is apparently mostly just moly lube. It's hard to keep that in suspension, so often it will just settle to the bottom of the pan. Does it get mixed in after the engine runs a minute? I dont know. Does it help on break in? Probably, I dont know. Does zddp matter? I dont know.

I want to just go to a roller cam and be done with it. If I go to another flat tappet cam I will probably stick to a slow, lazy one like a magnum 280H or something just to lessen the strain on the valvetrain and lifters. Im tired of worrying about oil additives and long periods of idling.

Also, for what it's worth, the oil companies and car companies claim that the new levels of ZDDP are plenty for flat tappet cams. Are they including modern high performance flat tappets? No, but is there a difference? I dont know. But I do know the testing procedures for modern oils specifically include a pretty rigorous test with a flat tappet style follower. Something like 40 hours at a certain RPM and then a wear inspection, before they certify it. Then Comp tells me that synthetic oil is bad for flat tappets, that it's "too slippery" (sounds like BS to me, but who knows, this "too slippery myth has been busted about synthetic oils before in many other areas. All new cars are shipped with synthetic oil in the crank case, but the cylinder rings still seat, despite it being "too slippery". So I think it's just the same old myth being regurgitated by a poorly paid email tech support guy).


So what oil should you get for flat tappets? Heck if I know, but if I was forced to choose something other than my Mobil 1 (which Im not eager to recommend anymore due to the low zddp levels), I would suggest Redline or Zrod oil. Avoid Royal Purple oil, that stuff has some weird, weird crap in it and it's apparently not a "real" synthetic. You have to be careful with the "race" oils. Valvoline ZR-1 is one of the best for ZDDP, but it's not good for long change intervals as the protection severely degrades after a certain timeframe. It has a different detergent package that isn't aimed towards a street car in stop and go traffic for 3000 miles/3 months. So you have to be careful with stuff like that.

Zrod looks like the best, but it's a little pricy, and you may have to deal with the amsoil cult to get it... those guys seriously creep me out.

Last edited by InfernalVortex; 11-18-2012 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:17 PM   #7
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

I read up on the Z rod Oil after I posted, I may go that route, I use Amsoil in most of my other stuff, and the price is right in line with Mobile 1.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:49 AM   #8
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

Infernal, I think I saw a back-to-back test stating that RP's only major difference between their oil and Mobile-1's Super Synthetic was the fact it had dye in it giving the distinctive color. I looked at the chemical breakdowns for each one, and they were fairly similar. I didn't see anything that looked out of place.

Can you elaborate more on this? I've had good luck with RP and Mobile-1.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:51 AM   #9
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaElite121 View Post
Infernal, I think I saw a back-to-back test stating that RP's only major difference between their oil and Mobile-1's Super Synthetic was the fact it had dye in it giving the distinctive color. I looked at the chemical breakdowns for each one, and they were fairly similar. I didn't see anything that looked out of place.

Can you elaborate more on this? I've had good luck with RP and Mobile-1.
I didnt bookmark it, probably will never be able to find that page again. It seemed like a legitimate concern to me at the time, but you know how this oil stuff is. It's like picking a favorite color, because the only things you can measure about these things are complicated enough that you need to be a lubricants engineer to make a meaningful comparison.

Anyway, I did find this just now:

Quote:
RP had already changed formulations and gone mainstream after the owner, Jody Williams, died a couple of years ago. They dropped the Synerlec, reduced the ZDDP, got API certifications, and began distributing through big box stores. All of this may have been prep for sale.
May or may not be true, but it may also explain some discrepancies.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=220119

A lot of mixed opinions there, too. Seems like the most common complaint is the viscosity drop over time. And thats from 3 years ago too.

And there is this:

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article001398592.cfm

Who knows, really. Theres a whole mess of people claiming Mobil 1 blew up their engines. You have it with every brand I guess.

In other news, look into Mobil 1 15W-50. Has 1200/1300ppm of Zinc and phosphorous. Looks like a great oil. I'd run that. I need to get me some now...

Last edited by InfernalVortex; 11-20-2012 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfernalVortex View Post
Does zddp matter? I dont know.
Yes, it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfernalVortex View Post
Zrod looks like the best, but it's a little pricy...
$10/qt seems less pricey than a cam/lifters replacement. But, some people like having an excuse to tear their car apart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfernalVortex View Post
... and you may have to deal with the amsoil cult to get it... those guys seriously creep me out.
Sorry, didn't realize I had that effect on you. If it's really that bad, go to www.amsoil.com and order it online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK Z View Post
I read up on the Z rod Oil after I posted, I may go that route, I use Amsoil in most of my other stuff, and the price is right in line with Mobile 1.
Well worth it, IMO.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:26 PM   #11
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

I like the valvoline vr1, it really isnt the best for long change intervals but it has plenty of zddp and my valve noise went away when I changed last time. At 6 dollars a bottle its way more affordable then some of the "special" so I dont mind changing it twice a year.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:41 PM   #12
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

Quote:
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Sorry, didn't realize I had that effect on you. If it's really that bad, go to www.amsoil.com and order it online.
I've never seen the amsoil cult behavior here, but your response (as a "representative" ) is hardly surprising.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:57 PM   #13
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

Quote:
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I've never seen the amsoil cult behavior here, but your response (as a "representative" ) is hardly surprising.
"Independent dealer", actually.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:02 PM   #14
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

I have used some Amsoil products and always felt, thought they are expensive, the quality is worth the price. I have ordered online and bought it at my local NAPA. While their marketing structure is not conventional, I have never gotten why people think it is some kind of scam or cult. You can buy the oil from a local dealer or a dealer you trust online. I do not work for Amsoil or sell their stuff. Just a satisfied consumer.

Also the Valvoline VR1 is good for flat tappet engines but as others have said, not a long interval oil. 6 months or 3000 miles is as long as it should be run.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:36 PM   #15
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

Quote:
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I have used some Amsoil products and always felt, thought they are expensive, the quality is worth the price. I have ordered online and bought it at my local NAPA. While their marketing structure is not conventional, I have never gotten why people think it is some kind of scam or cult. You can buy the oil from a local dealer or a dealer you trust online. I do not work for Amsoil or sell their stuff. Just a satisfied consumer.

Also the Valvoline VR1 is good for flat tappet engines but as others have said, not a long interval oil. 6 months or 3000 miles is as long as it should be run.
Being that most people that care enough to run a high zddp oil in there car are the kind of people that store there car in the winter the 6 month interval isn't a big deal because you should change it before and after winter anyway. I dont trust those claims of 7500 miles or whatever anyway, better safe than sorry.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:56 PM   #16
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

Quote:
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I dont trust those claims of 7500 miles or whatever anyway, better safe than sorry.
My truck isn't exactly a race car but it does have 220K miles on it, almost all of them with Amsoil, and up to 20k miles between changes. Granted most of those miles were highway running but none the less 7500 miles is nothing.

FWIW, the truck still runs better and uses less oil than quite a few newer and lower mileage vehicles I've seen and heard about.

Better safe than sorry is an easy sell. If 3000, why not safer and even less sorry at 1500, or maybe after every time you drive the car...just to be sure.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:37 PM   #17
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

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My truck isn't exactly a race car but it does have 220K miles on it, almost all of them with Amsoil, and up to 20k miles between changes. Granted most of those miles were highway running but none the less 7500 miles is nothing.

FWIW, the truck still runs better and uses less oil than quite a few newer and lower mileage vehicles I've seen and heard about.

Better safe than sorry is an easy sell. If 3000, why not safer and even less sorry at 1500, or maybe after every time you drive the car...just to be sure.
20k is huge, Ive seen a car run 30k without a change and blow up two engines that way.Now Amsoil is one helluva product but that has to be pushing the envelope. As for that last statement I put less than 500 miles on it this year and changed the oil and you better believe itll get changed again in the spring and I dont even plan on having this motor forever. Then again it's not your truck and sees full throttle much more often.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:14 AM   #18
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

Shell Rotella, for a number of reasons including low cost, durability (shear,oxidize,tbn, and the like), anti-wear additives, and availability. Just search for "shell rotella UOA" and pay particular attention to the low wear metals found even after extended(10k mi plus) drain intervals.

Mobil 1 HM can be had in 5w30 10w30 or 10w40 at most stores and contains higher than average levels of Zinc/Phosphorous(zddp).

I've also read that it is a good idea to use a cam button to keep the cam thrust load off of the lifters/distributor gear and therefore reducing wear.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:14 AM   #19
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Re: Enigne Oil Help, What is good for a Flat Tappet Cam?

Quote:
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20k is huge, Ive seen a car run 30k without a change and blow up two engines that way.Now Amsoil is one helluva product but that has to be pushing the envelope. As for that last statement I put less than 500 miles on it this year and changed the oil and you better believe itll get changed again in the spring and I dont even plan on having this motor forever. Then again it's not your truck and sees full throttle much more often.

I drive the truck considerably less these days because I have a car that gets considerably better gas mileage. Instead of a daily driver, the truck is only as-needed, which isn't very much. So, the last couple oil change intervals were contingent on time, not miles, and expect they will be from now on. Change oil once per year. Just changed it recently and last year's miles were 143.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:15 PM   #20
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I dont trust those claims of 7500 miles or whatever anyway, better safe than sorry.
Well, I hope you buy new radial tires when they get 10k miles on them, because everybody knows tires are bald by 10k miles.
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