Question about 1983 Z28
06-04-2013, 02:06 PM
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Question about 1983 Z28
Hello guys first I apologize if this is the wrong section (i am an admin on other forums and people who post in the wrong section can be annoying), I am currently 17 years old and take an automotive car course in my high school. The teacher is a great guy and two weeks ago he brought in a 1982 Pontiac Firebird a car which I fell in love with, he got it for free from someone who didn't want it anymore, after I told him how much I loved the car he told me that he was going to be giving it away but to someone else who was supposed to get a car the year before, but some um what I think we can call *******s (idiotic students) messed up the car so bad that he didn't want to give it to the student since it had some pretty expensive problems when it was done. So he said that he has a 1983 Chevy Camaro z28 sitting behind his shop that he thinks if I like the Firebird I would love. Although I don't know much info about it because he only did a quick look at it, its a 1983 z28 T-Tops (THAT DON'T LEAK 
) it is black with a silver trim and is in moderate shape, its been sitting for around three years it runs but ofc needs all of the normal things that car sitting for four years needs (brakes, tires, etc) its the automatic V8 model. My questions are first and foremost if i could get this car for sub 1000$ would it be worth it, as from what I can tell while talking to him he really doesn't want the car and all its doing is taking up space, also if I can get it for cheap would it be worth it and what should I lookout for when I take a look at the car, keep in mind he isn't looking to screw me over so im sure he will know what to look at in a general sense and will tell me if there are any serious problems. Also what am i looking at maintenance wise, from what ive been told the 80's firebirds/camaros/tran ams are poorly made. Keep in mind i do have moderate skill in terms of car maintenance and im sure i could figure somethings out, I have a floor jack, an impact gun, and alot of other misc tools.
Thanks
Also just incase you guys couldnt tell i love the 80's camaros and anyone who owns one or a firebird for that matter is a lucky bastard <3
) it is black with a silver trim and is in moderate shape, its been sitting for around three years it runs but ofc needs all of the normal things that car sitting for four years needs (brakes, tires, etc) its the automatic V8 model. My questions are first and foremost if i could get this car for sub 1000$ would it be worth it, as from what I can tell while talking to him he really doesn't want the car and all its doing is taking up space, also if I can get it for cheap would it be worth it and what should I lookout for when I take a look at the car, keep in mind he isn't looking to screw me over so im sure he will know what to look at in a general sense and will tell me if there are any serious problems. Also what am i looking at maintenance wise, from what ive been told the 80's firebirds/camaros/tran ams are poorly made. Keep in mind i do have moderate skill in terms of car maintenance and im sure i could figure somethings out, I have a floor jack, an impact gun, and alot of other misc tools. Thanks
Also just incase you guys couldnt tell i love the 80's camaros and anyone who owns one or a firebird for that matter is a lucky bastard <3
06-04-2013, 03:12 PM
#3
Supreme Member
Re: Question about 1983 Z28
The idea that the 80s F-bodies(more specifically 3rd gen F-bodies, built from 82-92) were poorly built doesn't hold up under scrutiny as we see these cars go 300,000 miles with only general maintenance. As far as what to look for in terms of condidtion, the list would be fairly typical to any and all cars. I am a 40 year ASE Master Technician and I perform quite a few pre-purchase inspections each year. The first thing to look for is poorly repaired or severe body/chassis damage. Mechanical repairs are fairly straight forward. Body/chassis damage can be a death nell for any car if it is on a level where it affects alignment and integrity of the chassis. I always look for signs of a cover up paint job or wrinkles/creases in the body lines which might indicate poor body work. If in question, rack the vehicle and look closely at the pinch welds and the seams where the front core support joins the front subframe. Make the same inspection of the rear body under the impact absorption assembly.
These cars are getting older and as with any older car, if you're serious about owning and caring for the car, expect to replace all rubber suspension components, ball joints, dampers, and steering components. The brakes on the third gens were the same iffy brakes that GM used on all of their offerings during that era. Many upgrades are now available.
The Chevrolet small block V8 used in the 83 is typical of all 1st gen chevy small blocks and will probably suffer from oil leaks at the front and rear crankshaft seals, valve covers, front and rear manifold end seals. It is among the last years of the two piece rear main seal GM V8s and the engines offered after 86 are a better choice for building since they accommodate a hydraulic roller cam without expensive retrofit parts. The one piece rear main seal, when correctly installed, is also less likely to leak oil.
The 83 automatic trans will either be a T200 3 speed or it may be an early 700R4. The 700R4 is a unit that was built for several years by different designation codes and ended up being a very solid unit as the 4L65E used in the LS Vettes and F-Bodies. The early units were not as strong and suffer from common issues. But they are faily easy to rebuild and the same high strength parts that went into the 4L65E also fit the early units.
The fuel management system will be either computer command control carburetion, or cross fire throttle body injection. Both were good systems and seem to last well over time with proper maintenance. If you plan to do your own vehicle care, including diagnosis and repair of engine management problems, you need to purchase the Helms Publishing factory service manual for the car. This is the manual that we used at the GM dealership for these cars and no aftermarket publication comes close in detail and thoroughness of information. You also need to develop skills in electronic control systems diagnosis as both of these systems rely on electronic management and are beyond the scope of anyone who doesn't understand electronic control systems.
These are great cars. I have owned three of them, beginning with an 82 TA that I bought new. I have owned my 87 IROC Beasty since 98 and have worked over every part of the car, beginning with a complete chassis and suspension overhaul with high performance upgrades and maximizing the TPI engine's factory power output in 99. Last winter I performed a high performance rebuild on the 700R4 transmission. I love this car and will have it for the rest of my life. Then it will go to my son.
These cars are getting older and as with any older car, if you're serious about owning and caring for the car, expect to replace all rubber suspension components, ball joints, dampers, and steering components. The brakes on the third gens were the same iffy brakes that GM used on all of their offerings during that era. Many upgrades are now available.
The Chevrolet small block V8 used in the 83 is typical of all 1st gen chevy small blocks and will probably suffer from oil leaks at the front and rear crankshaft seals, valve covers, front and rear manifold end seals. It is among the last years of the two piece rear main seal GM V8s and the engines offered after 86 are a better choice for building since they accommodate a hydraulic roller cam without expensive retrofit parts. The one piece rear main seal, when correctly installed, is also less likely to leak oil.
The 83 automatic trans will either be a T200 3 speed or it may be an early 700R4. The 700R4 is a unit that was built for several years by different designation codes and ended up being a very solid unit as the 4L65E used in the LS Vettes and F-Bodies. The early units were not as strong and suffer from common issues. But they are faily easy to rebuild and the same high strength parts that went into the 4L65E also fit the early units.
The fuel management system will be either computer command control carburetion, or cross fire throttle body injection. Both were good systems and seem to last well over time with proper maintenance. If you plan to do your own vehicle care, including diagnosis and repair of engine management problems, you need to purchase the Helms Publishing factory service manual for the car. This is the manual that we used at the GM dealership for these cars and no aftermarket publication comes close in detail and thoroughness of information. You also need to develop skills in electronic control systems diagnosis as both of these systems rely on electronic management and are beyond the scope of anyone who doesn't understand electronic control systems.
These are great cars. I have owned three of them, beginning with an 82 TA that I bought new. I have owned my 87 IROC Beasty since 98 and have worked over every part of the car, beginning with a complete chassis and suspension overhaul with high performance upgrades and maximizing the TPI engine's factory power output in 99. Last winter I performed a high performance rebuild on the 700R4 transmission. I love this car and will have it for the rest of my life. Then it will go to my son.
06-04-2013, 03:19 PM
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Re: Question about 1983 Z28
The idea that the 80s F-bodies(more specifically 3rd gen F-bodies, built from 82-92) were poorly built doesn't hold up under scrutiny as we see these cars go 300,000 miles with only general maintenance. As far as what to look for in terms of condidtion, the list would be fairly typical to any and all cars. I am a 40 year ASE Master Technician and I perform quite a few pre-purchase inspections each year. The first thing to look for is poorly repaired or severe body/chassis damage. Mechanical repairs are fairly straight forward. Body/chassis damage can be a death nell for any car if it is on a level where it affects alignment and integrity of the chassis. I always look for signs of a cover up paint job or wrinkles/creases in the body lines which might indicate poor body work. If in question, rack the vehicle and look closely at the pinch welds and the seams where the front core support joins the front subframe. Make the same inspection of the rear body under the impact absorption assembly.
These cars are getting older and as with any older car, if you're serious about owning and caring for the car, expect to replace all rubber suspension components, ball joints, dampers, and steering components. The brakes on the third gens were the same iffy brakes that GM used on all of their offerings during that era. Many upgrades are now available.
The Chevrolet small block V8 used in the 83 is typical of all 1st gen chevy small blocks and will probably suffer from oil leaks at the front and rear crankshaft seals, valve covers, front and rear manifold end seals. It is among the last years of the two piece rear main seal GM V8s and the engines offered after 86 are a better choice for building since they accommodate a hydraulic roller cam without expensive retrofit parts. The one piece rear main seal, when correctly installed, is also less likely to leak oil.
The 83 automatic trans will either be a T200 3 speed or it may be an early 700R4. The 700R4 is a unit that was built for several years by different designation codes and ended up being a very solid unit as the 4L65E used in the LS Vettes and F-Bodies. The early units were not as strong and suffer from common issues. But they are faily easy to rebuild and the same high strength parts that went into the 4L65E also fit the early units.
The fuel management system will be either computer command control carburetion, or cross fire throttle body injection. Both were good systems and seem to last well over time with proper maintenance. If you plan to do your own vehicle care, including diagnosis and repair of engine management problems, you need to purchase the Helms Publishing factory service manual for the car. This is the manual that we used at the GM dealership for these cars and no aftermarket publication comes close in detail and thoroughness of information. You also need to develop skills in electronic control systems diagnosis as both of these systems rely on electronic management and are beyond the scope of anyone who doesn't understand electronic control systems.
These are great cars. I have owned three of them, beginning with an 82 TA that I bought new. I have owned my 87 IROC Beasty since 98 and have worked over every part of the car, beginning with a complete chassis and suspension overhaul with high performance upgrades and maximizing the TPI engine's factory power output in 99. Last winter I performed a high performance rebuild on the 700R4 transmission. I love this car and will have it for the rest of my life. Then it will go to my son.
These cars are getting older and as with any older car, if you're serious about owning and caring for the car, expect to replace all rubber suspension components, ball joints, dampers, and steering components. The brakes on the third gens were the same iffy brakes that GM used on all of their offerings during that era. Many upgrades are now available.
The Chevrolet small block V8 used in the 83 is typical of all 1st gen chevy small blocks and will probably suffer from oil leaks at the front and rear crankshaft seals, valve covers, front and rear manifold end seals. It is among the last years of the two piece rear main seal GM V8s and the engines offered after 86 are a better choice for building since they accommodate a hydraulic roller cam without expensive retrofit parts. The one piece rear main seal, when correctly installed, is also less likely to leak oil.
The 83 automatic trans will either be a T200 3 speed or it may be an early 700R4. The 700R4 is a unit that was built for several years by different designation codes and ended up being a very solid unit as the 4L65E used in the LS Vettes and F-Bodies. The early units were not as strong and suffer from common issues. But they are faily easy to rebuild and the same high strength parts that went into the 4L65E also fit the early units.
The fuel management system will be either computer command control carburetion, or cross fire throttle body injection. Both were good systems and seem to last well over time with proper maintenance. If you plan to do your own vehicle care, including diagnosis and repair of engine management problems, you need to purchase the Helms Publishing factory service manual for the car. This is the manual that we used at the GM dealership for these cars and no aftermarket publication comes close in detail and thoroughness of information. You also need to develop skills in electronic control systems diagnosis as both of these systems rely on electronic management and are beyond the scope of anyone who doesn't understand electronic control systems.
These are great cars. I have owned three of them, beginning with an 82 TA that I bought new. I have owned my 87 IROC Beasty since 98 and have worked over every part of the car, beginning with a complete chassis and suspension overhaul with high performance upgrades and maximizing the TPI engine's factory power output in 99. Last winter I performed a high performance rebuild on the 700R4 transmission. I love this car and will have it for the rest of my life. Then it will go to my son.
06-04-2013, 05:38 PM
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Car: 83' Z28
Engine: 5.0 V8 305
Transmission: 5 SPEED
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: Question about 1983 Z28
I just bought, LITERALLY the same car. Things you should, or at least I did, look out for immediately when considering price are:
mileage - I got one just at 99k which frankly was amazing considering the age but a carfax report confirmed thats the ACTUAL mileage.
tranny replacement - usually they start to go / require a rebuild around 70k - mine was factory replaced around this time
engine block - again has it been rebuilt recently? how recently? OR if its always been well maintained and hoses valves plugs lines regular oil changes etc they can last past 200k
is there a lot of rust? particularly the frame and the axles
are the wheels stock/rust free? or enough that you can sandblast and have something left...the wheels alone are ~$3/400
whats the body condition? a lot of bondo? going to need bondo? rust? floors rusted?
if its a manual (as mine was) the clutches last a LONG time and in my case a sticky clutch was actually just in need of an adjustment
a car this old doesn't need to pass emissions in most places, or any I think, and can run off the headers without causing damage so the condition of the exhaust is not an immediate concern but you'll probably want to replace it at some point as if its seen any winters its likely to have some holes
as for price, if its running and driving and you are able to do basic repairs on your own, or even heavy lifting, be fair with the guy but go as low as you can. No one here is going to be able to give you a hard price without some more info on the condition of most of what I just listed.
One thing you should really watch out for is the infamous main oil seal for leakage. You have to drop the tranny to get in there to replace that $1 ring which is a real pain /expensive especially if you don't have a lift. It seems to be more of an issue for later models but certainly isn't unheard of in earlier ones.
Take into consideration the amount you're going to have to put in immediately for repairs. Even stuff like tread on tires, brake pads, adds up very quickly and you're going to want to focus on a total tuneup (hoses valves steering plugs) first and foremost and thats AFTER you've bought the car, paid to register (assuming you do that) etc. Plus you being 17 aren't going to get the cheapest insurance rates its just life. Your relationship with the seller means he's probably not going to try to dupe you but he might not know every problem with the car and you will surely find out and it will be at the most inconvenient time possible I assure you so keep at least something in the bank for such a situation. Be realistic in how much you can initially afford in terms of tuneups and don't be afraid to offer a lower price specifically referencing known issues to be addressed immediately.
Good luck, hope this helped!
mileage - I got one just at 99k which frankly was amazing considering the age but a carfax report confirmed thats the ACTUAL mileage.
tranny replacement - usually they start to go / require a rebuild around 70k - mine was factory replaced around this time
engine block - again has it been rebuilt recently? how recently? OR if its always been well maintained and hoses valves plugs lines regular oil changes etc they can last past 200k
is there a lot of rust? particularly the frame and the axles
are the wheels stock/rust free? or enough that you can sandblast and have something left...the wheels alone are ~$3/400
whats the body condition? a lot of bondo? going to need bondo? rust? floors rusted?
if its a manual (as mine was) the clutches last a LONG time and in my case a sticky clutch was actually just in need of an adjustment
a car this old doesn't need to pass emissions in most places, or any I think, and can run off the headers without causing damage so the condition of the exhaust is not an immediate concern but you'll probably want to replace it at some point as if its seen any winters its likely to have some holes
as for price, if its running and driving and you are able to do basic repairs on your own, or even heavy lifting, be fair with the guy but go as low as you can. No one here is going to be able to give you a hard price without some more info on the condition of most of what I just listed.
One thing you should really watch out for is the infamous main oil seal for leakage. You have to drop the tranny to get in there to replace that $1 ring which is a real pain /expensive especially if you don't have a lift. It seems to be more of an issue for later models but certainly isn't unheard of in earlier ones.
Take into consideration the amount you're going to have to put in immediately for repairs. Even stuff like tread on tires, brake pads, adds up very quickly and you're going to want to focus on a total tuneup (hoses valves steering plugs) first and foremost and thats AFTER you've bought the car, paid to register (assuming you do that) etc. Plus you being 17 aren't going to get the cheapest insurance rates its just life. Your relationship with the seller means he's probably not going to try to dupe you but he might not know every problem with the car and you will surely find out and it will be at the most inconvenient time possible I assure you so keep at least something in the bank for such a situation. Be realistic in how much you can initially afford in terms of tuneups and don't be afraid to offer a lower price specifically referencing known issues to be addressed immediately.
Good luck, hope this helped!
06-04-2013, 05:44 PM
#7
Supreme Member
Re: Question about 1983 Z28
By understanding electronic engine control systems, I mean understanding the design and purpose of each part of the system and how they relate to each other.
The early systems were a fairly simple network of sensors and actuators, and in the case of the CCC carbureted systems, included mechanical fuel controls. The TB and port fuel injected systems are fully electronic. The fuel is injected using electric solenoid fuel valves(injectors).
Your knowledge of computers will be helpful only if it includes basic knowledge of electricity and circuitry. As far as the purpose of each sensor and actuator, this is engine control specific and you will need to study to understand the engineers' intent of design and the relationship between components. Diagnosing a system problem must begin with understanding how the system was intended to work. The author of the HELM's manual did quite well at explaining these systems. For those with a basic knowledge of automotive systems, reading this manual is one of the first steps I recommend to anyone intent on diagnosing and repairing these systems.
As far as mileage is concerned, that can range all over the map. Your key issue on an 83 model is going to be age, rather than mileage. Many rubber components will have deteriorated regardless of mileage. Having said that, average mileage on most cars is about 15,000 per year. Cars that we love and care for we may save for weekends in the summer so they may only accumulate 4,000-5,000 per year. If a car has had repair issues and has sat for some time, this lowers the yearly average. I wouldn't be surprised to see 200,000 on an 83. If the car is in generally good shape, I wouldn't turn away from it for that reason either. Especially since at that age, I would plan on a complete refit anyway. I bought my 87 with just 107,000 on the clock with the express intent of completely rebuilding it.
A daily driver? I hear of that quite often. These are as dependable as any car of that age. The better care you take of it, the more reliable it will be. Every working part of my car has been replaced in the last 14 years and I have put less than 25,000 miles on her since the rebuild. So my car is very dependable. I love my car way too much to pile up the miles on her. I drive her only on nice days and less than 4,000 miles per year. I have a butt ugly little Suzuki pile that gets 35 miles a gallon and that I don't give a damn about that I drive the rest of the time.
The early systems were a fairly simple network of sensors and actuators, and in the case of the CCC carbureted systems, included mechanical fuel controls. The TB and port fuel injected systems are fully electronic. The fuel is injected using electric solenoid fuel valves(injectors).
Your knowledge of computers will be helpful only if it includes basic knowledge of electricity and circuitry. As far as the purpose of each sensor and actuator, this is engine control specific and you will need to study to understand the engineers' intent of design and the relationship between components. Diagnosing a system problem must begin with understanding how the system was intended to work. The author of the HELM's manual did quite well at explaining these systems. For those with a basic knowledge of automotive systems, reading this manual is one of the first steps I recommend to anyone intent on diagnosing and repairing these systems.
As far as mileage is concerned, that can range all over the map. Your key issue on an 83 model is going to be age, rather than mileage. Many rubber components will have deteriorated regardless of mileage. Having said that, average mileage on most cars is about 15,000 per year. Cars that we love and care for we may save for weekends in the summer so they may only accumulate 4,000-5,000 per year. If a car has had repair issues and has sat for some time, this lowers the yearly average. I wouldn't be surprised to see 200,000 on an 83. If the car is in generally good shape, I wouldn't turn away from it for that reason either. Especially since at that age, I would plan on a complete refit anyway. I bought my 87 with just 107,000 on the clock with the express intent of completely rebuilding it.
A daily driver? I hear of that quite often. These are as dependable as any car of that age. The better care you take of it, the more reliable it will be. Every working part of my car has been replaced in the last 14 years and I have put less than 25,000 miles on her since the rebuild. So my car is very dependable. I love my car way too much to pile up the miles on her. I drive her only on nice days and less than 4,000 miles per year. I have a butt ugly little Suzuki pile that gets 35 miles a gallon and that I don't give a damn about that I drive the rest of the time.
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06-04-2013, 05:51 PM
#8
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Re: Question about 1983 Z28
The 83 rear main seal is a two piece. It's done through the pan with the trans installed.
06-04-2013, 05:52 PM
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Re: Question about 1983 Z28
I just bought, LITERALLY the same car. Things you should, or at least I did, look out for immediately when considering price are:
mileage - I got one just at 99k which frankly was amazing considering the age but a carfax report confirmed thats the ACTUAL mileage.
tranny replacement - usually they start to go / require a rebuild around 70k - mine was factory replaced around this time
engine block - again has it been rebuilt recently? how recently? OR if its always been well maintained and hoses valves plugs lines regular oil changes etc they can last past 200k
is there a lot of rust? particularly the frame and the axles
are the wheels stock/rust free? or enough that you can sandblast and have something left...the wheels alone are ~$3/400
whats the body condition? a lot of bondo? going to need bondo? rust? floors rusted?
if its a manual (as mine was) the clutches last a LONG time and in my case a sticky clutch was actually just in need of an adjustment
a car this old doesn't need to pass emissions in most places, or any I think, and can run off the headers without causing damage so the condition of the exhaust is not an immediate concern but you'll probably want to replace it at some point as if its seen any winters its likely to have some holes
as for price, if its running and driving and you are able to do basic repairs on your own, or even heavy lifting, be fair with the guy but go as low as you can. No one here is going to be able to give you a hard price without some more info on the condition of most of what I just listed.
One thing you should really watch out for is the infamous main oil seal for leakage. You have to drop the tranny to get in there to replace that $1 ring which is a real pain /expensive especially if you don't have a lift. It seems to be more of an issue for later models but certainly isn't unheard of in earlier ones.
Take into consideration the amount you're going to have to put in immediately for repairs. Even stuff like tread on tires, brake pads, adds up very quickly and you're going to want to focus on a total tuneup (hoses valves steering plugs) first and foremost and thats AFTER you've bought the car, paid to register (assuming you do that) etc. Plus you being 17 aren't going to get the cheapest insurance rates its just life. Your relationship with the seller means he's probably not going to try to dupe you but he might not know every problem with the car and you will surely find out and it will be at the most inconvenient time possible I assure you so keep at least something in the bank for such a situation. Be realistic in how much you can initially afford in terms of tuneups and don't be afraid to offer a lower price specifically referencing known issues to be addressed immediately.
Good luck, hope this helped!
mileage - I got one just at 99k which frankly was amazing considering the age but a carfax report confirmed thats the ACTUAL mileage.
tranny replacement - usually they start to go / require a rebuild around 70k - mine was factory replaced around this time
engine block - again has it been rebuilt recently? how recently? OR if its always been well maintained and hoses valves plugs lines regular oil changes etc they can last past 200k
is there a lot of rust? particularly the frame and the axles
are the wheels stock/rust free? or enough that you can sandblast and have something left...the wheels alone are ~$3/400
whats the body condition? a lot of bondo? going to need bondo? rust? floors rusted?
if its a manual (as mine was) the clutches last a LONG time and in my case a sticky clutch was actually just in need of an adjustment
a car this old doesn't need to pass emissions in most places, or any I think, and can run off the headers without causing damage so the condition of the exhaust is not an immediate concern but you'll probably want to replace it at some point as if its seen any winters its likely to have some holes
as for price, if its running and driving and you are able to do basic repairs on your own, or even heavy lifting, be fair with the guy but go as low as you can. No one here is going to be able to give you a hard price without some more info on the condition of most of what I just listed.
One thing you should really watch out for is the infamous main oil seal for leakage. You have to drop the tranny to get in there to replace that $1 ring which is a real pain /expensive especially if you don't have a lift. It seems to be more of an issue for later models but certainly isn't unheard of in earlier ones.
Take into consideration the amount you're going to have to put in immediately for repairs. Even stuff like tread on tires, brake pads, adds up very quickly and you're going to want to focus on a total tuneup (hoses valves steering plugs) first and foremost and thats AFTER you've bought the car, paid to register (assuming you do that) etc. Plus you being 17 aren't going to get the cheapest insurance rates its just life. Your relationship with the seller means he's probably not going to try to dupe you but he might not know every problem with the car and you will surely find out and it will be at the most inconvenient time possible I assure you so keep at least something in the bank for such a situation. Be realistic in how much you can initially afford in terms of tuneups and don't be afraid to offer a lower price specifically referencing known issues to be addressed immediately.
Good luck, hope this helped!
06-04-2013, 05:57 PM
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Re: Question about 1983 Z28
By understanding electronic engine control systems, I mean understanding the design and purpose of each part of the system and how they relate to each other.
The early systems were a fairly simple network of sensors and actuators, and in the case of the CCC carbureted systems, included mechanical fuel controls. The TB and port fuel injected systems are fully electronic. The fuel is injected using electric solenoid fuel valves(injectors).
Your knowledge of computers will be helpful only if it includes basic knowledge of electricity and circuitry. As far as the purpose of each sensor and actuator, this is engine control specific and you will need to study to understand the engineers' intent of design and the relationship between components. Diagnosing a system problem must begin with understanding how the system was intended to work. The author of the HELM's manual did quite well at explaining these systems. For those with a basic knowledge of automotive systems, reading this manual is one of the first steps I recommend to anyone intent on diagnosing and repairing these systems.
As far as mileage is concerned, that can range all over the map. Your key issue on an 83 model is going to be age, rather than mileage. Many rubber components will have deteriorated regardless of mileage. Having said that, average mileage on most cars is about 15,000 per year. Cars that we love and care for we may save for weekends in the summer so they may only accumulate 4,000-5,000 per year. If a car has had repair issues and has sat for some time, this lowers the yearly average. I wouldn't be surprised to see 200,000 on an 83. If the car is in generally good shape, I wouldn't turn away from it for that reason either. Especially since at that age, I would plan on a complete refit anyway. I bought my 87 with just 107,000 on the clock with the express intent of completely rebuilding it.
A daily driver? I hear of that quite often. These are as dependable as any car of that age. The better care you take of it, the more reliable it will be. Every working part of my car has been replaced in the last 14 years and I have put less than 25,000 miles on her since the rebuild. So my car is very dependable. I love my car way too much to pile up the miles on her. I drive her only on nice days and less than 4,000 miles per year. I have a butt ugly little Suzuki pile that gets 35 miles a gallon and that I don't give a damn about that I drive the rest of the time.
The early systems were a fairly simple network of sensors and actuators, and in the case of the CCC carbureted systems, included mechanical fuel controls. The TB and port fuel injected systems are fully electronic. The fuel is injected using electric solenoid fuel valves(injectors).
Your knowledge of computers will be helpful only if it includes basic knowledge of electricity and circuitry. As far as the purpose of each sensor and actuator, this is engine control specific and you will need to study to understand the engineers' intent of design and the relationship between components. Diagnosing a system problem must begin with understanding how the system was intended to work. The author of the HELM's manual did quite well at explaining these systems. For those with a basic knowledge of automotive systems, reading this manual is one of the first steps I recommend to anyone intent on diagnosing and repairing these systems.
As far as mileage is concerned, that can range all over the map. Your key issue on an 83 model is going to be age, rather than mileage. Many rubber components will have deteriorated regardless of mileage. Having said that, average mileage on most cars is about 15,000 per year. Cars that we love and care for we may save for weekends in the summer so they may only accumulate 4,000-5,000 per year. If a car has had repair issues and has sat for some time, this lowers the yearly average. I wouldn't be surprised to see 200,000 on an 83. If the car is in generally good shape, I wouldn't turn away from it for that reason either. Especially since at that age, I would plan on a complete refit anyway. I bought my 87 with just 107,000 on the clock with the express intent of completely rebuilding it.
A daily driver? I hear of that quite often. These are as dependable as any car of that age. The better care you take of it, the more reliable it will be. Every working part of my car has been replaced in the last 14 years and I have put less than 25,000 miles on her since the rebuild. So my car is very dependable. I love my car way too much to pile up the miles on her. I drive her only on nice days and less than 4,000 miles per year. I have a butt ugly little Suzuki pile that gets 35 miles a gallon and that I don't give a damn about that I drive the rest of the time.
Is this the manual
http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2...883&itemtype=N
Last edited by plation; 06-04-2013 at 06:18 PM.
06-04-2013, 11:19 PM
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Car: 83' Z28
Engine: 5.0 V8 305
Transmission: 5 SPEED
Axle/Gears: Stock
Re: Question about 1983 Z28
you can get classic insurance usually only if you have another vehicle. you could call and ask but when I did (in NY) I could only do it as a secondary. also you generally can't put more than about 5k on it per year. I have a friend attempting to go the classic route because he has a normally registered motorcycle as his primary, however I've yet to hear a success story on this plan...
06-05-2013, 06:12 AM
#13
Re: Question about 1983 Z28
I'm generally uneasy about someone buying their first car. Older cars need experience and financial resources to get them sorted out. Lots of people buy an old car and ruin them in 6-12 months. However, everybody is an individual and personal motivation and discipline can go a long way.
You should go into it expecting to do a lot of work on the car, and for it not to be reliable transportation for some time. You need to be ready for that. Also be very conservative about keeping money in the bank. Don't spend it on things that aren't important, especially early on. You should expect to need a significant amount of money for repairs. You just don't know what you're going to run into.
Watch for overheating problems, that's common on an old car and if ignored, it leads to bigger problems. Same story with oil leaks, and that adds expense just to keep oil in it.
Good diagnosis skills are critical. Lots of people tend to guess and replace stuff at random. That gets expensive and frustrating. You have to learn to do tests and narrow down a problem as precisely as possible before drawing conclusions.
Be interested to read and learn all you can about how everything on the car really works. The more you know, the better you'll be at diagnosis.
As far as the computer stuff, it's educational to read some of the beginner tutorials on ECM tuning and datalogging. It's valuable to understand how the ECM is programmed to operate. Many mechanics have only a vague understanding, but as a computer guy you should have the mindset to do better than that.
These cars are easier and cheaper to work on than a modern car. But they are old and need attention. So if you are motivated to work on them, you'll likely enjoy owning it. But if you just want to drive it, you'd be kidding yourself.
After a difficult uphill climb, you can make an old car reliable, but don't expect it to be like that for a while, especially in this price range.
Sorry for the
You should go into it expecting to do a lot of work on the car, and for it not to be reliable transportation for some time. You need to be ready for that. Also be very conservative about keeping money in the bank. Don't spend it on things that aren't important, especially early on. You should expect to need a significant amount of money for repairs. You just don't know what you're going to run into.
Watch for overheating problems, that's common on an old car and if ignored, it leads to bigger problems. Same story with oil leaks, and that adds expense just to keep oil in it.
Good diagnosis skills are critical. Lots of people tend to guess and replace stuff at random. That gets expensive and frustrating. You have to learn to do tests and narrow down a problem as precisely as possible before drawing conclusions.
Be interested to read and learn all you can about how everything on the car really works. The more you know, the better you'll be at diagnosis.
As far as the computer stuff, it's educational to read some of the beginner tutorials on ECM tuning and datalogging. It's valuable to understand how the ECM is programmed to operate. Many mechanics have only a vague understanding, but as a computer guy you should have the mindset to do better than that.
These cars are easier and cheaper to work on than a modern car. But they are old and need attention. So if you are motivated to work on them, you'll likely enjoy owning it. But if you just want to drive it, you'd be kidding yourself.
After a difficult uphill climb, you can make an old car reliable, but don't expect it to be like that for a while, especially in this price range.
Sorry for the
06-05-2013, 07:03 AM
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Re: Question about 1983 Z28
I'm generally uneasy about someone buying their first car. Older cars need experience and financial resources to get them sorted out. Lots of people buy an old car and ruin them in 6-12 months. However, everybody is an individual and personal motivation and discipline can go a long way.
You should go into it expecting to do a lot of work on the car, and for it not to be reliable transportation for some time. You need to be ready for that. Also be very conservative about keeping money in the bank. Don't spend it on things that aren't important, especially early on. You should expect to need a significant amount of money for repairs. You just don't know what you're going to run into.
Watch for overheating problems, that's common on an old car and if ignored, it leads to bigger problems. Same story with oil leaks, and that adds expense just to keep oil in it.
Good diagnosis skills are critical. Lots of people tend to guess and replace stuff at random. That gets expensive and frustrating. You have to learn to do tests and narrow down a problem as precisely as possible before drawing conclusions.
Be interested to read and learn all you can about how everything on the car really works. The more you know, the better you'll be at diagnosis.
As far as the computer stuff, it's educational to read some of the beginner tutorials on ECM tuning and datalogging. It's valuable to understand how the ECM is programmed to operate. Many mechanics have only a vague understanding, but as a computer guy you should have the mindset to do better than that.
These cars are easier and cheaper to work on than a modern car. But they are old and need attention. So if you are motivated to work on them, you'll likely enjoy owning it. But if you just want to drive it, you'd be kidding yourself.
After a difficult uphill climb, you can make an old car reliable, but don't expect it to be like that for a while, especially in this price range.
Sorry for the
You should go into it expecting to do a lot of work on the car, and for it not to be reliable transportation for some time. You need to be ready for that. Also be very conservative about keeping money in the bank. Don't spend it on things that aren't important, especially early on. You should expect to need a significant amount of money for repairs. You just don't know what you're going to run into.
Watch for overheating problems, that's common on an old car and if ignored, it leads to bigger problems. Same story with oil leaks, and that adds expense just to keep oil in it.
Good diagnosis skills are critical. Lots of people tend to guess and replace stuff at random. That gets expensive and frustrating. You have to learn to do tests and narrow down a problem as precisely as possible before drawing conclusions.
Be interested to read and learn all you can about how everything on the car really works. The more you know, the better you'll be at diagnosis.
As far as the computer stuff, it's educational to read some of the beginner tutorials on ECM tuning and datalogging. It's valuable to understand how the ECM is programmed to operate. Many mechanics have only a vague understanding, but as a computer guy you should have the mindset to do better than that.
These cars are easier and cheaper to work on than a modern car. But they are old and need attention. So if you are motivated to work on them, you'll likely enjoy owning it. But if you just want to drive it, you'd be kidding yourself.
After a difficult uphill climb, you can make an old car reliable, but don't expect it to be like that for a while, especially in this price range.
Sorry for the
06-05-2013, 04:03 PM
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Re: Question about 1983 Z28
So I talked to my teacher today and got some good news, even though its been stored outside for about 3 years its had a cover on it the entire time so it hasnt been left bare and unprotected, and even though i live on longisland, its far enough from the ocean that salt water wont be a problem
06-06-2013, 03:15 PM
#16
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Re: Question about 1983 Z28
There has been some great insight shared here. The message I find most important is save your money. Don't rush to make modifications or cheap, easy repairs. Any job worth doing is worth doing right. This means setting aside the funds to buy all of the correct parts. On the front end for instance, this would mean replacing any component that shows signs of wear, even if it's still within tolerances. This way you only have to teat down the front end once, rather than having to go back and replace parts you skipped over the first time. I went to great lengths on my rebuild to use top quality components and make solid repairs. Still, over the years since, I have spent way too much time and money going back over repairs that weren't really as good as they could have been. Today I have a list of things that I will be correcting and refitting over the coming years. Save you money, make a plan for each area of the car and don't be afraid to ask for input from others. You may not like what you hear but you may also pick up valuable insight that will save you grief later. Then when you have everything you need and are properly prepared, do the job.
I suggest that you don't rely on this car for daily transportation. As I said before, my IROC Z is very reliable and when I choose to drive it, I know that it will get me to and from anywhere without a failure. Still, I only drive it when the weather is good while I use a much less valuable car the rest of the time. This is my advice to you. Buy a beater to drive and let people laugh at your pile, knowing that your real car will be a beauty when you finish it. Once your car is finished and ready for the road, you won't want to drive it in the rain so you'll still need the beater. For me it's like having a double identity. One day I drive this beasty gorgeous red IROC Z that looks and sounds as bad *** as it runs. The next day, I drive this little pile. I don't know if people even recognize me in it. It's kind of funny really and since I don't drive a car to impress others, it doesn't matter what they think of the pile.
06-06-2013, 06:48 PM
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Re: Question about 1983 Z28
Yes. That is the one. Short of attending GM Tech school, that one book is the single best source of information and education you can get for that car. At $100, it's a bargain.
There has been some great insight shared here. The message I find most important is save your money. Don't rush to make modifications or cheap, easy repairs. Any job worth doing is worth doing right. This means setting aside the funds to buy all of the correct parts. On the front end for instance, this would mean replacing any component that shows signs of wear, even if it's still within tolerances. This way you only have to teat down the front end once, rather than having to go back and replace parts you skipped over the first time. I went to great lengths on my rebuild to use top quality components and make solid repairs. Still, over the years since, I have spent way too much time and money going back over repairs that weren't really as good as they could have been. Today I have a list of things that I will be correcting and refitting over the coming years. Save you money, make a plan for each area of the car and don't be afraid to ask for input from others. You may not like what you hear but you may also pick up valuable insight that will save you grief later. Then when you have everything you need and are properly prepared, do the job.
I suggest that you don't rely on this car for daily transportation. As I said before, my IROC Z is very reliable and when I choose to drive it, I know that it will get me to and from anywhere without a failure. Still, I only drive it when the weather is good while I use a much less valuable car the rest of the time. This is my advice to you. Buy a beater to drive and let people laugh at your pile, knowing that your real car will be a beauty when you finish it. Once your car is finished and ready for the road, you won't want to drive it in the rain so you'll still need the beater. For me it's like having a double identity. One day I drive this beasty gorgeous red IROC Z that looks and sounds as bad *** as it runs. The next day, I drive this little pile. I don't know if people even recognize me in it. It's kind of funny really and since I don't drive a car to impress others, it doesn't matter what they think of the pile.
There has been some great insight shared here. The message I find most important is save your money. Don't rush to make modifications or cheap, easy repairs. Any job worth doing is worth doing right. This means setting aside the funds to buy all of the correct parts. On the front end for instance, this would mean replacing any component that shows signs of wear, even if it's still within tolerances. This way you only have to teat down the front end once, rather than having to go back and replace parts you skipped over the first time. I went to great lengths on my rebuild to use top quality components and make solid repairs. Still, over the years since, I have spent way too much time and money going back over repairs that weren't really as good as they could have been. Today I have a list of things that I will be correcting and refitting over the coming years. Save you money, make a plan for each area of the car and don't be afraid to ask for input from others. You may not like what you hear but you may also pick up valuable insight that will save you grief later. Then when you have everything you need and are properly prepared, do the job.
I suggest that you don't rely on this car for daily transportation. As I said before, my IROC Z is very reliable and when I choose to drive it, I know that it will get me to and from anywhere without a failure. Still, I only drive it when the weather is good while I use a much less valuable car the rest of the time. This is my advice to you. Buy a beater to drive and let people laugh at your pile, knowing that your real car will be a beauty when you finish it. Once your car is finished and ready for the road, you won't want to drive it in the rain so you'll still need the beater. For me it's like having a double identity. One day I drive this beasty gorgeous red IROC Z that looks and sounds as bad *** as it runs. The next day, I drive this little pile. I don't know if people even recognize me in it. It's kind of funny really and since I don't drive a car to impress others, it doesn't matter what they think of the pile.
06-10-2013, 05:45 PM
#18
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Re: Question about 1983 Z28
That's a great deal for any running driving car, especially an 83 Z28.
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