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Old 07-21-2013, 11:02 PM   #1
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350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

i got a 3970010 5.7 with 378450 heads
from what ive read there 1.72 and the exahust are 1.50 60cc heads
and 305 heads bump up comp a little???

what are the pros and cons with these heads?
should i ditch these heads and try to find a decent pair of 350 heads? at the junkyard?

can a build a decent engine with these heads
also would this exsplain why this car runs real rich with stock q-jets? or is it probly just the q-jets?

was wanting too build a cheap decent little motor while learning a little more but this threw me off and everyone never really answers with if they are worth the time of day.

thxs
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:16 AM   #2
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

Pros:


{that was short}

Cons:

Poor flow
Tendency to crack
No power potential


Most "350 heads" you'll find at the junkyard, are no better; they just suck in different ways. "Decent" "350 heads" "at the junkyard" are 3 concepts that don't belong in the same thought or sentence. Whatever 350 heads you find at the junkyard won't be "decent" because any such thing that ever had appeared, is already on the cars of the yard employees. There may be places to find such a thing, but in terms of working the odds, the junkyard isn't it.

The heads won't really have anything directly to do with mixture control. That would more likely be a function of the carb.

"Should" is rather subjective, and dependent on your own situation, goals, budget, purpose, etc. I can tell you a great deal about what "is", but what "should be" is not so cut-and-dried.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:50 AM   #3
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

Decent vortec heads can still be found at junk yards.
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Old 07-22-2013, 07:04 AM   #4
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

well i was wanting too wait a little bit too do this but i might have too jump ahead or atleast try
http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...d/viewall.html
Pro Comp Heads
$580.00
Professional Products Intake
$129.00
Complete 350 Motor, Pick-a-Part
(Wrecking Yard)
$200.00
Core charge
$0.00
Gaskets set- Motorville
(MRG-7100)
$25.00
E-Bay Comp Cam
$159.00
Pro Comp Cast
Aluminum Valve Covers
$33.00
Summit Racing Pushrods
$29.00
Chump Change Total Build Cost
$1155.00

was thinking of just buying the procomp heads pushrods use the 305 guided rocker arms buy the cam slap it all together and i should have something decent.

or could i use these for cheaper http://springfieldil.craigslist.org/pts/3902385125.html

The idea was to help car with all of its "getto" issues that its had from years of sitting but the way it runs drives me crazy it needs a carb but too buy a carb i need a adapter or intake well why buy that stuff for the 305 head when i could bite the bullet and do the pro comp upgrade?

thxs guys for chimming in also with the 60cc 305 heads alot of people say run 93 octane will this help or forget it run 87?

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Old 07-22-2013, 10:28 AM   #5
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

I think by the time you clean up and rebuild a "decent" set of junk yard OEM 350 heads you could have bought a new better flowing aftermarket set.

So a new top end on a used "decent" junk yard short block with fresh gaskets is your idea of a "rebuild"?

that my friend is recipe for failure... at the very least the short block should be reconditioned block honed, new bearings, new rings, recondition the rods, pistons, & crank, new timing set, new oil pump, new water pump.
This should be a minimum for a "stock rebuild".

If you want to make more power.. and not break parts... then consider a forged crank, rods, & pistons.

Your budget will easily double but you will have peace of mind that is was done correctly and have a long lasting trouble free engine.

At that point a new crate engine would be in your price range....

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Old 07-22-2013, 02:48 PM   #6
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

well my orgional idea that i had from the start was to have a half decent motor mabye just a intake carb and a cam. buy and build another sbc to "rebuild" (a word i didnt use) while i run the half decent motor but this motor i got in it runs like no 350 ive ever ran its balless i assumed the q-jets running a little rich was killing it but upon further inspection i noticed i got those 305 heads that are horrible for anything past 3500rpms my car has 3.73 gears so if reach out for a little performance that engine is slow i had a 305 tbi lg4 seem more responsive

Im not looking for a fancy 2-3 thousand dollor engine (yet)
250hp id be happy with fornow with that 350 block

So let me slightly moddify my ? can i use these 305 heads with a cam intake ect too turn out a half decent engine or would any other 350 head be better at this point

Also found a complete 283 sbc today would its heads be any good?
also i was able too find a some vortec 350 heads today 50 bucks if i pull worth it?
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:15 PM   #7
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

The Vortec 350 heads will be better than any 305 heads.
for 50 bucks they may be worth reconditioning if they are still in decent shape.

just make sure you get the Vortec intake manifold.


that should help wake up that engine
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:16 PM   #8
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

$50 hell yea. Pull them and get them checked out. If they are good then swap the springs and bolt them on.
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Old 07-22-2013, 07:07 PM   #9
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

im gunna hope too pull them tmw he said the egine didnt run but those vortecs were picky. So hopefully i can pull them before he scraps the truck and also swap the springs? what for just curious idk?

thxs again for the input

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Old 07-23-2013, 05:54 PM   #10
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

WOOHOO! was able too get those heads i allmost got them out today
Click the image to open in full size.
And i did make sure they are the 906 heads which they are!
Click the image to open in full size.
So tmw all i have too do is pull the nasty manifolds off and the head bolts and there mine!!! lol also the truck was a 1 ton cylinder truck with only 139000 so heads could be in good shape

Also was wondering what am i going too need too get these heads to work properly on my old 350 ive read alot of people change out springs and does machine work too them. im more looking too just have them looked over and with some diffrefent (bolt on) springs ect and get these things on

looking for a easy straight forward answer ive tried reading up on this but eveyone goes nuts on all this machine work on these heads and my brain flatlines lol 250 300 hp id be happy

SO what
1 Intake (vortec)
2 carb ( cfm)
3 machine work yes no?
4 cam choice for a play toy/dd sometimes
5 springs and pushrods?

thxs again

Last edited by 82z28 wrencher; 07-23-2013 at 06:30 PM. Reason: more noob questions
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:57 PM   #11
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

Just take them to a local engine shop and have them do a valve job on them.

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Old 07-23-2013, 07:20 PM   #12
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 85 ZXX View Post
Just take them to a local engine shop and have them do a valve job on them. Make sure the four center bolt holes on the intake are elongated to work with those heads.
Do a valve job and have the guides checked. You WILL have to have a vortec intake manifold. If you just have them rebuilt stock DON'T go over 480 lift on a cam.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:23 PM   #13
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

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Do a valve job and have the guides checked. You WILL have to have a vortec intake manifold. If you just have them rebuilt stock DON'T go over 480 lift on a cam.
So if i get a vavle job and the guides checked well i be able too just use the stock vortec springs and pushrods? and around a 480 lift for the cam ive read the vortec heads are weak on the exhuast side which cam would be ideal too compensate and still run stock? what numbers would that produce?
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:58 PM   #14
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

Flat tappet or Hyd Roller? flat with springs

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-1107/overview/

Flat without

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-1106/overview/
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:59 PM   #15
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

Assuming your engine has a flat tappet cam you can't use the vortec pushrods, but the ones you already have should be ok. You Will need the vortec rockers because vortec heads require self aligning rockers. I just did a top end build for a friend of mine in a 77 chevy 4X4 and he had one of those $1499 GM POS crate engines that didn't have many miles on it. We used 906 heads w stock springs, a lunati 280/290 duration 480/480 lift cam, Weiand stealth vortec intake and a Holley 600 vac secondary carb. I dnt know any numbers, but an educated guess would say mid to high 300's. it pulls that lead sled truck along really good. From a 60 punch it'll drive away from my 06 silverado 5.3L Z71. I was impressed in the performance gain in swapping just those parts compared to the amount he spent on it. In a car his engine would haul *** for sure.
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:32 PM   #16
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

well i found this cam http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lu...make/chevrolet but its 290/290/ 460/460

cant seem too find the 280/290/ 480 cam
also ive found this

Max valve lift is .460 to .480 (range is due to production line machining/casting variance, check for clearance on anything over .460".

also this The Chevrolet solution is to use Crane Cam’s 10309-1 drop-in valve spring and retainer kit which is good for .550” lift with no machining.

? idk the vavle springs kit is 239 would the increased .550 lift be more of a pain than gain? or should i stick with the .470 area lift? and finding this size cam is tricky and i dont want to go over 4.80 at all thats the max
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:12 PM   #17
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

Well... I guess lunati has discontinued that particular grind. It is a barebones 280/290 480/480 for sure. I would say if you had the $239 to spend on that spring kit it would definitely be worth it for the extra lift. I'd probably look at that 1103 or 1104 summit cams as alternatives for the lunati cam.
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Old 07-23-2013, 09:41 PM   #18
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

well i found this? http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane-Cams/271...ductId=1342310
Grind Number:278 H10Operating Range:2000-5800 RPMDuration Advertised:278° Intake / 278° ExhaustDuration @ .050'' Lift:222° Intake / 222° ExhaustValve Lift w/1.5 Rockers:.467'' Intake / .467'' ExhaustLobe Separation Angle:110°Max Lift Angle:105° ATDC Intake / 115° BTDC ExhaustOpen/Close @.050'' Cam Lift:Intake - 6° BTDC (opens) / 36° ABDC (closes)
Exhaust - 46° BBDC (opens) / (4°) BTDC (closes)

now with these heads with a 64cc flow what would that put a stock 350s compression at? id like too stick too around 9.5.1 so how would that come too be?

Last edited by 82z28 wrencher; 07-23-2013 at 09:47 PM. Reason: compression ?
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:06 PM   #19
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

I believe w stock pistons it'll be less than 9.5:1. A stock vortec 350 was 9.3:1 so you'll be no more than that if you have the stock pistons.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:32 AM   #20
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

Just tell the machine shop you want freshen up these high mileage heads and what the intended application is.

They will know what to do.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:34 AM   #21
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 82z28 wrencher View Post
well i found this? http://www.jegs.com/i/Crane-Cams/271...ductId=1342310
Grind Number:278 H10Operating Range:2000-5800 RPMDuration Advertised:278° Intake / 278° ExhaustDuration @ .050'' Lift:222° Intake / 222° ExhaustValve Lift w/1.5 Rockers:.467'' Intake / .467'' ExhaustLobe Separation Angle:110°Max Lift Angle:105° ATDC Intake / 115° BTDC ExhaustOpen/Close @.050'' Cam Lift:Intake - 6° BTDC (opens) / 36° ABDC (closes)
Exhaust - 46° BBDC (opens) / (4°) BTDC (closes)

now with these heads with a 64cc flow what would that put a stock 350s compression at? id like too stick too around 9.5.1 so how would that come too be?


Depends on what pistons came in the stock 350. Different 350s came with different pistons. Probably between 9-10.5 :1
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:04 AM   #22
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

Beehive springs use a much thinner retainer which means you get an extra .025 inches lift over the stock limitations. The actual number is higher, but Vortecs dont see a lot of benefit past .480, so the main point is just to be able to run a little more duration or a little more aggressive cam. From my research .500 is very safe with beehive retainers. .520+ is where it gets iffy and you need to really check and verify before you commit to something in that lift range.

So you can use a Comp 787-16 retainer set and beehive springs if you need to. Beehive springs are really good, but expensive, though.

Here's the catch, the GM LS2/LS6 etc "Yellow" springs can be had cheaply and actually work fairly well for flat tappet cams if set up properly since they have a pretty mild seat pressure. Youll probably need to lightly shim them to get them closer to 100 lbs seat pressure for a flat tappet, but the open pressure should still be right in the ball park.

GM "yellow" springs:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12499224

It's actually a pretty useful workaround in the right situations where you've got just a little more lift and the grind profile isnt a really aggressive roller setup.

If you find out you have dished pistons in your 350 block you may want to just stick with the stock cam you have and for that the factory vortec stuff is fine.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:33 AM   #23
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

never mind
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Old 07-24-2013, 06:16 PM   #24
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

thanks thats a good alternative im planing too have a local napa check the heads for cracks, valve guides, seats, ect for 70 bucks they said if the seats and guides need recut and replaced 270 so im hopeing they will be ok the heads "look" too be in great shape. I like the idea of the "yellow" springs if i get them would my local napa be able too shim them properly too achive the 100 lbs of seat pressure? and ill pull my old heads too see if i got flat or dished pistons before i make any spring decisions. Im going to try too find a craigslist intake 75-100 bucks local compaired too 200 and i still have too find a carb do you think a 600-650cfm with a lowrise dualplane intake be enough for the vortec heads?

does this all sound like a plan thxs again everyone
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:19 PM   #25
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

The wear of the guides will depend on how many miles the engine had on it. If it is a 200K engine your more than likely gonna need guides. A 600 cfm carb will be plenty. Make sure the intake manifold you buy is vortec specific. They only have 8 mounting holes, 2 on each corner, none in the middle like all the other SBC heads.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:39 PM   #26
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

well shoot! i went too a engine builder/ machineist at a local autoparts store who has been building engines for years and told him my idea for the vortec heads.... and he said scrap that idea he said i would be better off with some 882 heads that he has says there clean and ready too go no issues for 75 bucks. everywere i read they say praise the vortec and to hell with the 882s but the machinest said too hell with the vortec said there very prone too cracking. im going too guess the 882s he has are the pre 80s he says there the real thick heads.

So next ? what would you do i cant really argue with years of building when i dont know a whole lot... but the fourms all say otherwise ??? he laughed and asked " you've been on them fourms havent you?" lol
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:42 PM   #27
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

882 heads are garbage compaired to vortec. Trust me I removed 882 heads and installed vortec heads

never go to him again.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:48 PM   #28
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

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Do a valve job and have the guides checked. You WILL have to have a vortec intake manifold. If you just have them rebuilt stock DON'T go over 480 lift on a cam.
A valve job is removing the cylinder head(s) from the engine so the valves, guides and seats can be refurbished to restore compression and oil control. A valve job may be necessary by the time an engine has 80,000 or more miles on it, or to fix a "burned valve," compression or oil burning problem.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:55 PM   #29
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Car: 85 Z28 T-Top 36mm sway & wonderbar
Engine: TPI L98 350 W/85 Vette Stage II ECM
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

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Originally Posted by Chad85T/A View Post
The wear of the guides will depend on how many miles the engine had on it. If it is a 200K engine your more than likely gonna need guides. A 600 cfm carb will be plenty. Make sure the intake manifold you buy is vortec specific. They only have 8 mounting holes, 2 on each corner, none in the middle like all the other SBC heads.
Good info on the no center bolt holes for the Vortec heads! I didn't know that!
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:12 PM   #30
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Re: 350 with 305 378450 heads? should i toss these?

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Good info on the no center bolt holes for the Vortec heads! I didn't know that!
Thank you.


Change machine shops. That engine I talked about earlier in that 77 4X4 had 882's. the combination of 882 heads, dished pistons, and that weenie cam his had was why it was such a turd. Get the vortecs worked. Spend the bux and get a good vortec specific intake, center bolt valve covers (ones off the truck will be fine), good carb, good firing system and you won't be disappointed.
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Old 07-25-2013, 07:12 PM
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