bryaniskoo

1986 2.8L Camaro

When I turn the key it usually clicks once and doesn't start. Randomly I'll get it to start if i turn the key enough times.

I pulled the battery and starter and had them tested. They tested good. I cleaned all connection points to the starter, alternator and battery.

Any suggestions?

mlbinseattle

Automatic or manual transmission? On a manual, there's a Clutch Start Switch that the 12V has to pass through before reaching the starter solenoid when the ignition switch is in the start position. If it's an automatic, this switch doesn't exist. It's possible, if it's a manual, that the Clutch Start Switch could be bad.

You said that when you turn the key enough times, it will randomly start. More than likely, your ignition switch is the culprit. Sounds like an intermittent connection that makes contact randomly. The only other thing in this circuit is a fusible link. The 12V is routed from the battery to the starter through contacts on the starter solenoid, but it doesn't activate the starter until the starter solenoid is activated. That same 12V that is connected to the starter solenoid is also connected to the ignition switch via the fusible link. When the ignition switch is in the start position, that 12V is routed through the ignition switch back to the starter solenoid which activates thereby closing the solenoid contact which allows the 12V from the battery to pass through the contacts on to the starter.

Here's the wiring diagram. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/rep...96b43f80386616 Scroll down to Figure 22 and you'll see what I'm talking about.

bryaniskoo

Well I'll check out the fusible link. I noticed yesterday while I was messing with the car that the copper had come right out of the rubber on two of those wires.

So I cut them off, stripped them and put them back on. Still no start after.

Must I have the actual fusible link on there for it to start? And where can I get replacements?

Where is the ignition switch located?

mlbinseattle

The fusible link is for safety. It prevents an overload to the ignition switch. It's simply a fuse and acts like a fuse in your fuse box except a fusible link is hard-wired. Also, it completes the circuit from the battery to the ignition switch. So yes, you need it. You could take it out and bypass it with a wire, but I don't advise that.

It's a red fusible link. You should be able to pick one up at any auto parts store. If you have a volt/ohm meter, you can read the resistance through the existing fusible link. It should be zero or pretty close to it (less than 1 ohm resistance). Ensure that you have the key in the off or lock position so you're not reading any parallel resistance. If it reads good, then you don't need to replace it. Just ensure that the connections are good.

Where is the ignition switch located? Seriously? That's the thing that you put your key into to crank the engine. If you've never dealt with replacing one, before, then I highly suggest you read up on that procedure, first, before attempting anything or you'll end up in major frustration. Most times, it involves removing the steering wheel and a few other things. Removal of the steering wheel involves using a wheel puller to pull the steering wheel off the spline shaft, and most times, there's another tool that's needed to remove a plate behind the steering wheel.

bryaniskoo

To be fair the part in the link below is the one I thought we were talking about.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...2018&ppt=C0039

mlbinseattle

Yeh ... you're correct. I've actually never changed one out in a Camaro. The ones I'm used to seeing on other cars are all one assembly, and I'm used to calling the entire thing an ignition switch. The one you show, I believe, connects to the key lock cylinder with a connecting rod. You might try cleaning the connectors and the plug that goes to it, first, and see what happens. The connections in old cars sometimes get corroded to some degree. Might save you some money. Then again, it may be easier to just replace it and be done with it.

If replacing that switch doesn't solve it, then it's time to break out an ohm-meter and check continuity between connections.

nova983

The connecting rod between the key cylinder and the ignition switch could be bent or out of alignment. Pretty easy to check. You just take out the couple of bolts to lower the steering wheel and it is on the top side of the column. If the rod looks straight you can reach the switch part and loosen the mount screw and move it a little and see if it will start. I had to adjust mine not to long ago for not starting and havent had a problem since. It has been about three months and I daily drive mine.

mlbinseattle

Good point. This is something I need to remember if I ever have a problem with mine. Glad I participated in this thread.

bryaniskoo

I took the bolts out of the ignition switch and manually moved it into the start position and still just a click.

Went to my parts car that already had the steering column out of it and took the ignition switch off of it and plugged it in and moved it manually into the start position and still just a click.

The ignition switch from the parts car was much smoother and much more solid you could tell it was newer but still didn't seem to work.

mlbinseattle

I'm guessing the click is the solenoid activating, but the voltage is not being passed to the starter. Sounds like it's time to get an ohmmeter and start checking continuity between connections.

zee28

maybe dead spot in starter.you can try to tap on starter with something when it just clicks.

mlbinseattle

He said that he had his alternator and starter tested. Both checked good.

mlbinseattle

I went back and looked at the wiring diagrams, again. I realized that the first one I referenced in my earlier post (figure #22) didn't show a circuit connection if it is an automatic, and I never did hear if this car was an automatic or manual. So, I went looking again. Click on the link and check out figure #27. It's the body wiring diagram for an '86 Camaro. (It doesn't say for 2.5L) In any case, on most cars, the car has to be either in park or neutral for it to start which means the voltage has to pass through connections on the Gear Selector Switch (if it's an automatic) or the Clutch Start Switch (if it's a manual). I'm assuming this car is an automatic. I was wondering why this (the Gear Selector Switch) wasn't included on figure #22 for the 2.5L diagram, but I figured that it had to be wired the way it's shown in #27, anyway. In any case, it's another possibility why the voltage isn't making it to the starter motor.

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/rep...96537&cmpid=cj (Bottom right hand corner of diagram #27)

bryaniskoo

Not the alternator... Should I have had that tested as well?

Well it could be that the starter just happened to work properly while being tested. Every so often it will start right up randomly. I was considering just buying an entire new starter.

I gotta put the steering column all back together after work today then I can run through that diagram.

mlbinseattle

I misread your first post. No, you don't need to test the alternator. It won't prevent the starter from spinning.

I know that, sometimes, the big copper post on those starters will develop a hot spot inside the case where it makes the connection. Sometimes, after they get warm, the post will lose contact or make partial contact causing a starter to not do anything. If you take a set of jumper cables and connect the + side from the battery positive terminal directly to that copper post, it should spin that starter. If this works while the starter is in the car then, afterwards, clicks when using the key (ensure jumper cable is disconnected) to normally start the engine, then the starter is not the problem.

mlbinseattle

After thinking about it, again, I believe the solenoid on that starter will need to be connected, as well, so the voltage will pass on to the starter motor. In all likelihood, if you had that starter tested and it continued to click, afterwards, it's probably not the starter. I'd definitely test that starter, again, before buying a new starter.

bryaniskoo

From what I can tell that is already how it is hooked up.

Only it is a smaller gauge black wire hooked up to + post on the battery.

bigal55

iTrader: (1)

When the starter was tested, did they test the solenoid? The click you hear is probably the solenoid engaging but not passing power to the starter as stated in the above post. Check all your connections and if all good, change the solenoid.

The big copper post on the solenoid is connected directly to the battery through a large cable. The solenoid internally connects this post to the armature leads of the starter to power the starter motor. The armature leads are the two leads that come out of the starter case and connect to the solenoid just below the big copper post on the solenoid. If you jump between the big copper post (battery) and the armature leads, the starter will turn. The solenoid has a dual function. It is an electro-magnet that pulls in the starter drive (bendix) and makes the internal connection between the big copper post and the armature leads thus engaging the starter drive to the flywheel and applying power to the starter motor to turn the engine over. The solenoid is energized by the ignition switch when turned to the start position.

bryaniskoo

I saw them connect a smaller wire to where the car plugs into the solenoid. But I'm not sure if that was actually testing it.

The solenoid is $25 and a starter&solenoid already together is only $39. So if I go that route I think I'll save myself the trouble and buy the unit already together...

bryaniskoo

So I had someone turn the key while I did a light tester on the ignition wire connecting to the starter. Just a click. But the light came on.

So I bought a new starter, put it in. Starts right up every time.


I don't understand how the old one passed twice in a row on the tester then when I took it back as a core it still passed on the tester again.

The dead spot thing must be true.

Thanks for all the help.

mlbinseattle

It happens. Works when they test it but fails in the car. It could be a dead spot on that big copper connector. It could also be failing under load (attempting to turn the engine). Either way, glad to hear it's fixed.